So much for making your own luck.

A big yeewwwwww to Ciao and Garret!!

Trouble is ... no one would be surprised in the slightest had the ASP made another mistake.

You're right, no-one would be surprised if the ASP made another mistake. They've got to kick a few goals before they win back trust. But the greater matter is that the fate of comp surfers is always in the hands of administrators. It's the nature of the sport, as the article states. I reckon if the ASP and the sport as a whole (event licensee, sponsors etc) want to lessen their influence then they need to create uniform systems that people and competitors understand.

And Billabong needs to get rid of Luke Egan, who is Parko's coach, as event director. That's be a good start.

Egan's "influence" as a coach or connie director?....

If we were to look at Parko's long term record at all of theses ASP events, if Luke's position is a conflict of interests, Parko should be the first guy dumping him, as it has not transfers to intended results!

I don't know about that, I;ve never looked at the records. But success or failure is irrelevant, it's the perception of conflict that will keep people asking questions and discredit the sport.

i wonder if cheyne horan had scrutinized his heat scores many years ago,maybe a couple of those second places may infact have been first places ?

Just for the record. Luke Egan stood down from the position of Parko's coach. He is now the contest director for all Billabong sponsored contests. Why can't the ASP organise to have the same points system for all events? Well done Garret.

OK, that's one less thing to whinge about.

No worries Garrett. Take a shot at the kneeboard world title. I've seen the photos.

Garret's dad, Dave Parkes, is a 6 x Australian knee board champion and shaper. I don't think Garret will be a knee boarder but his old man rips.

In the Occumentary Occy's mum thought that surfers won their heats by being the first surfer to shore. Perhaps the ASP should give that a go?

When I heard Occ's mum say that I remembering thinking "aaah, so that's where he gets it from!"

Wonder where Davey Cathels would have placed? Wasn't he supposed to be in the lead before the last comp but then buggered his leg and lost his chances?

Good point sandspit.

First question - where do we find the old scoring system? Stu?

You can't find the old point values - and hence, the values the juniors were competing for - online anywhere. The last ASP Rulebook was updated on the 10th Oct and there are no listings of the old values in it. There's also no listings of the old values on the ASP website. I gathered the info from old press releases and also from the 'results' page on the Billabong World Juniors website where the final placing has a corresponding point total next to it.

It's a right pain in the arse and it left me wondering if the juniors even know what points they are competing for in the worlds.

As for Davey Cathels, he came in third overall without competing in the last event. Yeah, he was in the lead but not sure what he needed to score in the last event to win the title. It's all a bit up in the air for the World Juniors but speaking to Dave Prodan at ASP it sounds like they may be making firm decisions soon. Let's hope so.

Oh No. You just know that brewser is going to get his paws on this and rub his ears with glee. It's duck season !!!

the super gronk spent all yesterday having a twitter fight with Sunny Garcia, hasn't been seen since.

ahhhhh, feel the serenity.

Volcom Pro- Sick final!!

Wonder if brewser was watching?

Amazing Final!

Was like a full on shoot out, wave for wave with some of the best Pipe specialists going around.

What a buzzer beater by John John!!

'Wonder if brewser was watching?'

Of course he was, Jamie O was in it. And Brewser's Twitter response to his boy's last second loss? "We don't need "contests" to "prove" anything. All we need is live cameras, good waves, and good surfers."

Sorry Brewser, if we want tension and excitement we also need a clock counting down and judges scoring.

That should get a response out of him Stu, and keep him up all night on a drug fueled bender. All good though as we won't hear from him after that for atleast 48hrs.

Yeah, an amazing comp all round. And only a Prime level one at that. Good grief!

I know they surf Pipe together most days of the week but even so J'OB's grace towards JJF in defeat was a damn fine thing to watch. Take a note, Idiot Bunny.

A moot point but one to muse on anyway: how would J'OB and a few of the other Pipe specialists go in the big ends of the WT tour? When you see such comparatively lowly ranked surfers (JJF and a couple of others aside) doing their thing, makes you wonder if a special, supplementary tour should be put together for big wave tuberiding.

Or do we want our best surfers to be all-rounders?

Thoughts?

Be nice.

Not sure about a supplementary big barrel tour, Whaaat. I think the reason you see local guys do well at Pipe is simply because they are locals. I don't think it's a given that they would succeed at other big wave spots. Sure they'd do well, but then so would the World Tour guys. There's very few slouches on the Tour these days.

Local knowledge only serves you well at your local.

don't follow comp surfing much, but I think it all comes out in the wash.

I haven't seen anyone in the last 20 years win the title that didn't deserve it. (In my eyes, Dooma over Kong was the last.)

Guys like DaneR etc are free to choose not to compete if the structure doesn't suit them.

But I reckon if they want to be World Champ, then they can grind away for the year like the rest of us, not pick and choose and chuck a tanty when it doesn't fit.

Those Pipe sorta guys just had a great event, if it hits 20, the Eddie sorta guys get theirs, It's all good.

Wow - what a final.

Still don't know how you come up with a winner in that final. Looked like a three way dead heat to me. JOB was throwing away a couple of nines and still didn't win?

yeah, BR is right, it's all so terribly boring.

@ stu

Yer probably right. Good place to have local knowledge, though; some of those waves at low tide were pitching further than than they were rearing. Just how did JJF make that bottom turn and miss being guillotined by the lip??? Farking awe inspiring....

@Lolo,

Yeah, JOB threw out a 9.00 and an 8.33. To reiterate the point made in the article above: years ago the ASP used to count 4 waves not 2, if that were the case then JOB would've won. Without definitives or absolutes for scoring surfing will always be a case of 'best fit' in a subjective system. The only thing that is definitive is the count down of the clock.

take your point but is there anyone who thinks that JOB DIDNT do the best surfing of the competition???

is there a way to score competition where competitors accrue points through the competition? that way consistency is awarded and not just 5 minutes of luck at the end of the final.

JOB was probably the form surfer on the Finals day.

But, he was lucky to make the finals - only just scraping by in his Round 2, Round 3 and Round 4 heats. So, no - I don't think he was the best surfer for the entire competition.

do you want consistency or peak performances at clutch moments under maximum pressure?

If your footy team plays the best footy for 60 minutes and in the last 20 gets overtaken by an inspired performance by the opposing team do you think the victory was somehow undeserving because they were'nt the most consistent team?

If a boxer is ahead on points for 10 rounds but gets KO'ed by an opponent in the Final Rd is that victory not noteworthy and deserving?

Sport is supposed to reward the peak moment, the clutch performance. That is what was so exciting about John victory yesterday.
Sure he'd been unimpressive for most of the event. Poor cunt has a deep gash in his hand with stitches....the hand he grabs rail with. With that injury obviously hampering his performances he kept squeaking through heats using his savvy and grace under pressure.
Obviously JOB was the form surfer of the event and started the Final like a runaway steam train. Unstoppable.

Yet when the pressure was greatest and most would've already conceded defeat in their minds this 19year old kid who seems as thick as two short planks and looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth took off late and deep and speared a bomb in the last 5 minutes.

Then with 30 seconds remaining he engaged in a full paddle battle with a full grown man and recognised Pipe Master (how much easier to just sit back at that Point and let the defeat and second place happen) and took off on the most critical and heavy wave of the Final, using the most outrageous display of skill and confidence to make a wave only a handful of people could even contemplate making.

I'd say that was deserving of being crowned the winner.

There's something special about this kid.

Hope it's barrelling behind the rock at Snapper.

Erm, yeah that's what I meant to say Steve.

5 minutes of luck at the end? Harsh, very harsh. Barger and Yeomans were each scrambling to get on every - any! - wave that was coming through; neither made any of the ones they caught. Over the falls, caught inside - it was mayhem. Yet JJF kept his head and, despite being covered like a rash by J'OB, made it onto the most critical wave of the finals. And then made that wave look almost easy!!!

Very, very bloody lucky, I reckon.

By his own admission Jamie O only surfed well in the finals. Listen to his post heat interview. Averaging out scores is pretty stupid and it leaves the competition without need for finals, which would be anti-climactic if you ask me. Slater is the master of building momentum throughout an event and peaking when it counts most.

John John did something similar. He kept his head and did the right thing at the right time. That's as important in surfing as holding a rail under an 8 foot Backdoor axe.

As Freeride say...clutch moments.

And as Whaaat says too.

but if that last wave didnt come for john john???? then JOB wouldve won.

the fact it came was luck not skill. I wont deny it was exciting but the result seems harsh. looking for a fairer way to reward 4 days of surfing.

Fairer way????

Mate it's s'posed to be a Sport not a fucking knitting circle. We don 't want a group hug we want to see a winner.

Sure it was luck the wave came but it took all the skill of a Pipe champion to get into position for that wave and to ride it successfully.

i didn't say no winner i said no finals. surfers accrue points and the person with most wins. still get the oversized cheque and spray of champagne. the eddie aikau does that and the backdoor shootout does something similar.

outside of surfing the FA cup runs that way. just add points up and total them.

Don't know much about soccer but I thought the FA Cup was a knock-out competition?

club with the most points wins. no finals. bottom 8 (I think) get relegated.

Yeah, maybe that would be fairer. Dunno.

Even if it were fairer, would you really want to surrender the drama and pathos, the agony and the ecstasy, the titanic struggle of that final for, what, a mathematician's logic?

We need more Shakespearean moments, not fewer. You won't tell your grandchildren about who had the highest average wave score.

Moments like that are the stuff of legends.

"The holders of the FA Cup are Manchester City, who beat Stoke City 1–0 in the 2011 final for their fifth Cup triumph and first since 1969."

That sure sounds like a Final to me.

Put me down for the clutch moments. As Whaaat just alluded to averaging scores over four days removes the theatre and turns a surfing comp into a maths class. Bugger that, count down the clock and put the squeeze on the competitors.

You should have seen our office during the final. All of us were yellin' and hollerin' at the big monitor as the last couple of minutes counted down, and we all punched the sky as JJ exited his Backdoor barrel on the hooter.

You don't get that with aggregate scores.

Totally agree. Cliffhanger finishes when they happen are awesome.

Sudden death overtime, golden point, golden goal - it happens in a lot of sports. Are they a FAIR way to end the contest that is essentially even? No but who gives a shit! We want to see the theatre of it. Like Steve said - its sport, its entertainment, not a knitting circle. Save the "everybody wins a prize" for the kindy kids.

Would JJ get a 10 and a 9.9 if he got those waves in the first 5 minutes, not the last 5? I doubt it - seemed to my like his 10 was about the 4th best wave of the final but the judges get influenced by the theatre of it too. Hard to not give it a 10 given the timing of it. Sure its subjective but isn't any sport. Referee's, umpires, judges play a major role in deciding any close sporting event. An inch here or there, a wrong decision at a crucial time by the ref can all make the difference between death or glory.

Definitely highlights Stu's original point though. Move the goalposts even slightly and you get a different winner. Don't have an extended time for the final and you get a different winner. Make the football field an inch wider and the guy scores in the corner instead of brushing the sideline. It's what sport is all about.

Oh, there was a competition on? Who was first to the beach?

Wen Jiabao

I thought it was Burger Nozaki, that other French guy.

Great name.

Nozaki.

Every contest format has it's pros and cons.
The biggest negative for the man on man format is when one surfer is slightly in front and has priority near the end.
The guy in front then shadows the other guy making sure that both of them don't get a wave.
This happens to a degree virtually every heat. It provides a degree of tension but makes for a poor spectacle. Once in a blue moon the guy without priority sneaks a wave and occasionally wins, the rest of the time the spectators watch no waves being ridden for the last 5 minutes of every heat.
An expression session style format would counteract this negative but has been flatly rejected by the ASP. The closest they have come is the round 4 no knock out round that they currently use.
Until the ASP can get around this problem, the majority of heats (and competitions) will not end like the Pipe contest but with a slow fizzle out as one surfer tries to stop the other surfer catching a wave at the end. Tension yes, action no, and this will always limit the marketing potential for a television audience.
Enter a series of comments from Freeride and Whaaat detailing where I am clearly wrong, have no fucking idea, need to state my real name, how I am such a fucking idiot etc etc

Yes! The Dear Leader. I am humbled to be in The Party's servitude. I for one welcome to surfing the New True Cartel. Next, the CCP Pro at Pipeline.

No Tyler.....

Just wondering what happened about answering the question about the beef you had with the ASP.

You seemed to conveniently forget to answer the question.

Any chance of an answer?

By the way, I am on Hainan at the moment and I can tell you first hand the consequences of the Quicksilver Pro and ISA Comp here is shit. Environmental mess, local populace disruption, in bed with corrupt officials, drugs offences, etc. A little bit of digging and ... Wow.

And they just got here..

Stiv Shearer - freeride,

If surfing comps were like Australian footy, would we all dig it if there was a freaking tie, and we did the whole thing over again the next week? ;-)

Old J.O.B. blew the load by letting JJF get that last righthander in the last 40 seconds.

But, don't fell too sorry for the bloke as he's a capitalist to 'da max... And he's still taking that sponsorship money all the way to the bank.

Good on 'ya, Stiv.

Ben - as Im the only surfer in the office, I can assure you it was more of a spectacle around here. I involuntarily claimed it for JJ on his exit from that backdoor bomb with a stand up double fisted number and let out a 'farrrrkin carrmoorrrnnn!" whilst looking at the lifeless corpses in the surrounding cubicles for backup and high fives. Nothing.

Errrr.... yeah.... as you were everyone....

Drug offences, Clif...?

Fair? Surfing is not fair.

And that's what makes it all so farking good.

This Volcom Pipe Pro was the shizizzle.... Most likely going down as the contest of the millennium.

Not only will it bring on a stream of meaningless comments and tweeties by the few kookmeyer negs like Rottkamp,

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Neg%20spiral

it's about to kick off the rest of the ASP World Cup Tour!

Bring. It. On.

Epic p-funk! I can only imagine the deafening silence as you stared around the office post heat :)

What I mean is: A fair amount of drugs demanded, drugs fetched, drugs used, local people put at risk, no-one actually caught though (the consequences for drug supply and use and even being near the vicinity of them here are intense). Drug testing and competitive surfing. Ummm. OK.

I think Tyler might be on to something for a change. I too am frustrated watching crucial heats wind down with the priority holder holding off the trailing surfer up until the hooter blows. It does make for poor spectacle.

This is just a thought, but maybe they could consider blowing a quick double hoot at the 25 minute mark of the heat signalling to the surfers 5 minutes to go and removing priority?

Thoughts?

Hi Freeride, a bit like how Stu has swept under the carpet my suggestion to interview Dave Prodan and fire some tough questions at him about AI, the drugs policy and lots of other issues raised on here. He gave one reply saying why he wouldn't do it but it was full of lame excuses. He didn't respond to my follow up, I think he was hoping that with lots of other posts by people like yourself it would be forgotten about.
Can't tell you about my beef, there is a possibility of future legal action.
Have a nice day!

Hi Tyler, Dave Prodan is a media director, he has ZERO to do with generating or enforcing ASP policy.

But I intend to ask some of your questions to people who do.

Now, asking you directly, and if you don't respond I'll assume it do be true.

Are you the guy who submitted a contest format to the ASP that they then used without acknowledgement?

Saying yes or no to that doesn't prejudice any legal action.

A guy with potential legal action pending against someone/organisation clearly has an agenda: it would be best to put that agenda out there, otherwise your comments could be seen as being part of a vendetta.

@ TylerDurden

Unlike Zen, who is clearly wrong, has no fucking idea, needs to state his real name, is such a fucking idiot etc etc, I like your idea about blowing a quick double hoot at the 25 minute mark of the heat signalling to the surfers 5 minutes to go and removing priority, as this would have the effect of drastically increasing the degree of tension and improving the spectacle, given that, right now, the guy without priority occasionally sneaks a wave and wins, but the rest of the time we spectators watch no waves being ridden for the last 5 minutes of every heat.

Good work. I like it.

Maybe, Steve or Stu, you could mention it to Dave during the interview?

Don't forget proper attribution.

That's "Whaaaat" with 4 a's.

Sorry Steve, you are wrong in your assertion.

What assertion?

You sound like a spin-doctor trying to hide something from the public TD.

Anyway, thats your call.

Pretty friggin ironic to ask for a bit of transparency and get it but in return play with weasel words designed to hide the truth.

I think if you weren't trying to hide something you could Very easily clear up any misunderstanding.

@ my friend, TD

"Can't tell you about my beef, there is a possibility of future legal action."

Freeride's correct, that lying jackal. Until a matter is actually, well, a legal matter. viz. at trial or being considered by the Court, it is not subject to the sub judice rule.

Tell away, mon ami.

Tyler Durden: "I have had my own issues with the ASP in the past and have very good justification for my belief that ***** is extremely compromised when it comes to asking tough questions to those within the surfing industry"

Tyler,

I'm not stupid. I know exactly what your beef is. I read every one of your posts on Realsurf before you deleted them under threat of legal action and then apologised unreservedly - and not a bit sycophantly - to those you accused. It's why I'm not entertaining any of your requests. You got a problem? Fight your own battles.

And to think you accuse other people of a conflict of interest...

Say it ain't so, Joe please
Say it ain't so
That's not what I want to hear Joe and I've got a right to know.

Say it ain't so, Joe please
Say it ain't so
I'm sure they're telling us lies Joe please tell us it ain't so.

They told us are hero has played his last trump card
He doesn't know how to go on.
Were clinging to his charm and he turned and smiled
But the good ole days are gone.

The army and the empire may be falling apart
And the money had gotten scarce.
One mans word held the country together
But the truth is getting fierce.

Say it ain't so, Joe please
Say it ain't so
We pinned our hopes on you Joe and they're ruining our show.

(Ooo Baby)
Don't you think we're going to get back
(Ooo Baby)
Don't you think we're going to get tired
We're going to get burned
We're going to get learned
We're going to get turned
We're going to get burned
We're going to get burned
Ooo learn
Turn
Burned
Ooo burned
Yea.....

Ah, my hopes and dreams shattered. That's the sort of low-down, lousy, lack-lustre sort of behaviour I'd expect from Zen or one of the other low-life types on this blog, not you.

Whaaaat the fuck are you on about Whaaaat?

Am I reading things correctly? Above you called me a fucking idiot, even though it was my idea about the 25 minute hooter. Just then you accuse me of lack-lustre behaviour and being in cahoots with low-lifes?

Please tell me it aint so. I rarely bag people and quite often go into bat for others. Tyler Durden is an exception, I've taken him to task before because personally, I think he's a bit of a wanker. I did agree with him on some points regarding the lack of excitement regarding the priority system though. Maybe you should re-read a few of my previous posts just for clarification.

But that's all right mate, Friday arvo, long lawyers lunch, onto the third bottle of a cheeky little Cabernet, I understand. All is forgiven.

And Stu, if you take that idea to the ASP, that's capital Z and capital A:)

I think whaat is taking the piss Zen...

and Tyler has been busted with his fingers in the bullshit jar.

Whoops!!!

And here I am post surf and the cut runs deep.

Should have known, peace be with you lads- Tyler too.

'I think whaat is taking the piss Zen...'

Which what? The Whaaaat what has 4 'A's' in his name or the Whaat what has 2 'A's'?

We need to get this sorted out. What?

'I think whaat is taking the piss Zen...'

Wot?

Doncha believe it, TD. Zen, Freeride, Stu and those other low-life types just don't get you.

Sorry to interrupt people but i seem to be experiencing some dramas- every swellnet page i open freezes till a pop up says that swellnet is not responding with a tag that says' recover webpage' , i click on the tag and a few seconds later the page refreshes and functions normally. But then i have to go through this process with every new page. Only site on the computer that it happens to.

By the way, great work to the fellas at swellnet, the site is a credit to ya's- cheers

Thanks for the heads up, Blowin, and thanks for the compliments too. My browser is working fine but I'll do the rounds of diff browsers and check. I'll also give the eggheads a call to see if things are OK under the hood.

I'll report back shortly...

Actually, me too. Been happening all day but only on Internet Explorer. Google Chrome is fine. Thought was my laptop but the same thing happens here on my work pc too.

i have been experiancing the same problem for the last two days.

yeah, its only MS Explorer, and its at your end guys. Chrome is fine.

also I've been trying to change my pic, cos I'm tired of lookin' like a washed up Jesus, system won't let it happen.

Sorry guys, we've got some minor code issues - but only with Internet Explorer (and only some versions). Best short term option is to (a) use another browser like Chrome or Firefox, or (b) install the Chrome plugin for IE, which works a treat. See here: https://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/