North Coast shark activity: A new theory
I am going to put myself out there to offer an explanation as to why I think we have seen recent attacks and an increase in shark activity of late in the Ballina Region, that is not simply "The Great White Shark is protected and thus there is more of them and therefore more attacks".
I think a lot of you would agree there is more at play than just a potential increase in shark numbers when you have so many negative interactions close together in time and location. I welcome your opinions and discussion.
But in short: my advice is to be extremely cautious on your choice to surf in Northern NSW right now.
We are approaching new moon on the 15th and I would advise to avoid surfing around the full moon on the 30th altogether. Here is a picture I made of the moon phase on days of negative human/shark interactions over the last 10 months around Ballina.
My explanation for what has been happening around Ballina is based around the “hungry shark” theory.
The recent shark attacks at Ballina are focused around the two lunar cycles after the first whales have made their migration. White sharks are not feeding constantly. Their liver is like a battery and allows them to go weeks and months without eating. White sharks are regarded as opportunistic on their feeding habits with whales, preying on sick and injured whales as well as calves.
This year we are in the midst of full blown El Nino and the humpback whales made their migration up the coast later than what could be considered usual. My belief is the whales being late and potentially more clustered together has resulted in less feeding opportunities for a portion of the white shark population at a key time. My thoughts are that a portion of the population hasn’t fulfilled their need for calories and thus are heading close to shore to feed on schooling fish like the Australian salmon.
As to why the attacks on the full moon, I present two reasons. A long standing saying by fisherman and more recently adopted by divers is “No run - No fun”.
During the full moon there are larger tides and ocean currents also increase in intensity. When the current increases, eddies and stands of water create feeding opportunities for marine wildlife. Wildlife activity increases and aggregates on the full moon and this results in an opportune time to hunt.
The other reason has to do with hunting strategy. On this, sharks have been documented leaving shallow water on the full moon and returning on the new moon. This is something which I myself have recorded with my team in an exercise book during 4.5 years working as a diver at the southern tip of the Great Barrier Reef.
The idea is that because sharks use a lot of different senses to hunt their food, low light (new moon - darkness after sunset) and poor visibility allows sharks a competitive advantage to catch their prey. It is also suggested that these sharks do this avoid predation (I believe the attack in January on the new moon not to be the work of a white, but a bull or tiger - the timing would agree too).
White sharks however have extremely good eye sight and use it to identify and hunt their prey. As the full moon approaches there is light after sunset and white sharks are perhaps approaching a time where they are peaked up to get their calories.
As to Ballina? Living, surfing and studying at Ballina, I can say this region from Evans Head to Byron Bay has always been a very sharky area. It is located at the extreme eastern point of Australia, literally a corner in the coastline meaning wildlife tends to bottleneck through there: this is the reason Byron Bay is such a great place to watch whales.
It is also the place where the vibrant - although periodically majorly disturbed - Richmond River breaks the coastline, which plays a role as a nursery for fish and sharks. There are also multiple coves perfect for schooling fish to stop in and reef systems for fish to aggregate just offshore. Right now it is also a place of convergence for a lot of marine wildlife.
In short my belief is that because the whales were late it created less feeding opportunities for the white shark at a key time for them, therefore a small amount of hungry sharks have been getting desperate and peaked up to feed on the full moon. This has resulted in more negative shark encounters in the Ballina region.
The good news is I don’t believe this will last. Stay safe people. //NICK BRENNAN
Comments
A monster GWS cruising Sydney waters- longreef this morn ,captured on gopro.
1. Nick is on the right track with providing data for predictive analysis.
2. Shark hugging is not a viable option for most of us.
What we need asap:
1. Reliable indications of peak risk periods.
2. Real time sharing of sightings and close encounters.
3. Tagging, tracking and early warning systems.
4. Personal detection and repellant devices.
5. Targetted elimination of repeat offenders.
so, who do we lobby for support and funding, private and public?
Another reported attack just north of Forster.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-04/man-attacked-by-shark-on-nsw-mid-north-coast/6749982
Guy might be lucky, reports are injuries only superficial.
https://www.theherald.com.au/story/3327580/man-hurt-in-forster-shark-att…
Waning Gibbous
60% full _ New on 13th
" sharks have been documented leaving shallow water on the full moon and returning on the new moon." I think the only correlations we can draw is that the ocean is a very big place and many individual sharks probably have their own patterns of behaviour. Maybe there are no theories that hold firm across such geographic distances. Numbers locally have been way down in the surf and I already hear the perceptions in community of people not wanting to swim or surf. Or maybe it is just that the banks locally have been stuffed all winter. Damn persistent southerly swells.
I presume again this was in the middle of the day again. Throws the early/late day theory right out the window.
I agree mightymouse, a lot less people are in the water and I'm one of them. I agree the banks aren't good but from what I hear it's the fear of sharks keeping a lot of people out of the water. Be interesting to see how it all pans out. People are pretty worried about it around town. As there has been two attacks so close to home I really think something needs to be done.
Saw this young guy ride past my place with a board and wettie at 5.45 last night on his way for a surf,drove down and watched him paddle over the gutter out to the bank,by this time its starting to get dark.He caught a couple of 2fters and i left him to it and drove back with the headlights on,didnt want to be there if he got chomped.Ive done the same thing over the years but not now with so much going on,too risky but maybe your better off when its dark seeing as how most attacks are late morning.
https://m.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/swimmers-warned-after-s…
"The victim, 65-year-old local man David Quinliven, told police he was on a surf ski when he was hit by the shark."
Bloody hell. That's not a case of mistaken identity.... that's full blown attacking a surf ski!
2 bodies washed up on Stockton beach today ...intact I wonder ?
Cull them! Anyway you keyboard warriors want - drones, nets, selective, indiscriminate, mass. I don't give a fuck how, just start culling them now - because they're heading south!
Really good Imput silver-surfer, yep true keyboard warriors really great stuff you spud,
You honestly seem like a genuine potato, like a potato could give a better response than that.
You can't just cull them all wow
Too many attacks.
I agree too Andrew.
Hey Sorrento ,
Maybe when there's an attack at your local ie :- St Kilda Beach , Merri Creek ?!?!? ,
Then maybe you will have a vested interest .
Until then your not going to make a lot of friends here .
I for one would like to see the WA govt start there capture trials now .
Baiting after Nov. is too late !
Udo can you find the thread where myself and Kent Stannard were worried that the East Coast was next in the shark interaction escalation . He pretty much warned everyone near on a few years ago . !?
it's obvious that the new wiring in sharks brain evolution is that humans are connected to food. this has been shown to be the case in many species, if one group of a species gets a new skillset, then that species all over the world acquires that new skillset. resonance-electromagnetic connection must activate the potential.
combine this with protection of great whites, and of whales, plus we have overfished most areas and not restocked, it has thrown the natural balance out of the ocean cycle.
two bodies wash up on stocko untouched?????
must be movement that is attracting the biters.
summer coming, will be interesting to see what happens.
2 bodies wash up untouched , don't know why you would even post this here , as a 70 and 71 year old have been missing off a yacht , and it looks like these were the 2 men missing , nothing to do with sharks.
An attack on a surf ski , where the guy's ankle was nibbled , oops tastes bad!
as for andrew pitt and Klomb , guys you sound like hysterical girls , cull , cull , 95% of locals want culling ! You don't know how it can be done , but need something to be done to calm your fears.
I have spoken to quite a few friends on the N Coast and they are loving the uncrowded surf this winter , there is a silver lining to all of this , good uncrowded surf , and it will pass .
2 bodies washed up untouched, don't know why you would post that here......
twas for your benefit mate.....2 bodies can wash up untouched on a beach where scientists estimate there are at times up to 200 juvenile pointers.
So that's good news Udo , the GWS or any other shark left the bodies alone , as they see humans as no very appetizing.
Imagine if you left 2 big chunks of whale meet or seals in the same position as the 2 bodies?
Or 2 big chunks of GWS in the same position ?
Udo we know what sharks do to dead whale and seal , are you proposing to kill GWS's and leave the bodies in the water , so we can see what happens??
would you be prepared personally to go and test this theory , say put a couple of dead whites out the back of Lennox and go for a surf to see what happens??
I think you guys up the N coast somehow overlooked the councils burying whales on the beaches , and create a burley line through the surf breaks.
Bingo......yes kill one and tow it from Evans Head To Byron ...in the name of research..
no need for me to personally test this theory theres a daily helicopter and drones that would help with the results.
I 100% agree that leaving a whale carcass on any beach near civilization is fucking ridiculous especially when 99% of dead whales are sighted well offshore .....and could be towed further offshore ....10 miies or more..and let nature do its thing out there.
Tadashi was mauled and killed in February.............As far as I know nowhere near a dead whale carcass.
hey Udo , this article is from Feb 17th, which means the whale was already in trouble and would be a shark magnet , which could explain a lot of the shark nibbles!
A RARE Gray's beaked whale littered with shark bites was found washed up on Seven Mile Beach just metres from where a surfer was bitten by a shark a week ago.
Byron Bay surfer Jebez Reitman, 35, had a large chunk of flesh ripped from his back when he was bitten about dawn on February 8.
National Parks and Wildlife Service spokesman Lawrence Orel said initial reports were that two whales found beached, but alive, on Saturday were pushed back into the ocean by the public.
Mr Orel said he believed it was coincidental the whale was found where Mr Reitman was attacked by a shark.
He wasn't surprised the whale was found stranded and dead on Sunday.
"Often when you have a stranded animal like this if they are pushed back to sea it is very likely that they will re-strand," he said.
the article goes onto say that the authorities believe that the whales wouldn't attract sharks , yeah in your dreams , will be interested to hear what some of the cullees think about whales burley!
Hey Sharkman, why did you call yourself that?
Do you work with sharks or have some special relationship with them?
free76 , I am trying to see if I can scare you guys .
the special relationship I have with them is , that they are part on nature as am I , I have grown up with them , and I do not see them as man eaters and do not fear them.
I respect them , and when I see them , like last week , I get out of the water .
Not been thru the whole thread but has it been posed that councils burying whale carcasses on beaches are likely to be creating a burley slick that may spread for many km's and last for god knows how long?
Could be a reason GWS are getting in very close, not finding a feed and having a go at any old thing?
Whale buried at 7 mile Feb 2015;
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/rare-whale-found-dead-on-beach/2545…
Whale buried at Coffs July 2015;
https://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/news/whale-causes-a-stink-for-park…
Blind leading the blind. Great detective work tootr. Here is another interesting article
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/sharks-eat-into-profits/2549804/
toot , unbelievable , that councils would bury dead whales on the beach knowing that the scent of dead whale meat attracts sharks.
this actually answers a lot of questions why there are sharks close in and nibbling ocean users , the same happened in WA when authorities buried a whale on the beach at Umbies , then there was a shark attack.
So Ballina has a buried whale on the beach , which will decompose for another 12 mths , creating a burley trail .
Guys don't be angry with the sharks , be angry with the idiots who buried whales on the beach to decompose!
Sharkman,
This has been your best post yet. Congratulations.
Informative ,correct and true.
There is someone or people, in the shire office building treading very lightly and being very quiet about their "smart decision".
I found it baffling when i saw the link to the buried whale carcass............go figure.
Almost unbelievable but not quite...
This appears to be gold, but how factual is the info regarding recently buried whale carcasses on beaches near to recent shark attack sites?
If factual, it rates on a par with my own observations of mud gutted fishos diposing of bin loads of fish scraps near breaks and booze frenzied fish comp boaties burlying day and night near breaks.
Burying whale carcasses, dumping biological waste or burlying near breaks seems criminally negligent, reckless or downright intentful, we should name and shame at the very least; attracting sharks to breaks in those ways should be outlawed.
Dunno how it could be proven without multiple site water testing for whale oil/bits. I would assume tiny specs of whale oil will float and go as far as the currents will take them. That's a long way. The shark noses do the rest.
Apart from the Ballina/Lennox situation, wrt Coffs, the whale was buried in July at Sapphire. During mid August a lidding contest was cancelled due to multiple sightings, and a light aircraft pilot spotted a large GWS at Gallows last week.
Here's another one;
https://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/news/buried-whale-may-put-surfers-…
Maybe it's just the water temp, whales or moon phases, but the act of burying a dead whale at a beach seem pretty bloody silly to me. That's being polite to the councils and NPWS.
Tootr , you have discovered the motherlode of a real reason why , with warmer waters , more bait fish ballnear the beach and us humans have been creating a burley line on the Nth coast by burying whales on the beaches.
https://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/news/buried-whale-may-put-surfers-…
Now I wonder what happens if the media start questioning and search for more examples of whale carcasses attracting sharks , because we have a quote from the authorities that there is no correlation between whales and sharks!!
Nothing could be further from the truth lets see if there is a big enough of an outcry , not to cull sharks , but to dig up those whales and remove the burley , even take the carcasses out to see blow them up and then tag the sharks that come to feed.
There should be real outrage at the Councils and will there now be a cover up , as there actually might be a legal case , that the Council showed no duty of care and actually , significantly increased the risk of shark attack , and looks like the carcasses will take up to 18 mths to decompose , which means sharks will stay !
the obvious downturn in business , means that if Councils are found responsible , there could be a legal case against them,which means millions of $'s in damages.
So dear Local cullees , do some research into whalegate / burley , the answer as to why there is an anomaly in the amount of sharks on the N Coast might be buried on your beaches!
Are these the only times whales have been buried on beaches? If not was there an increase in shark numbers in the past? It's an interesting theory sharkman but as southy said eaileir there was a thread or article in the past about shark numbers on the east coast increasing and that's well before the burried whales.
Yeah Udo has kindly searched it up . I think if you read back through it you will hear many facts and theories .
BTW , a ( 25-30M ) Pygmy blue whale was buried at Rottnest islands west end in 2006 . In the dunes not beach . Anyway perhaps it took years for the oil to leach out , but an American diver was taken 5-7 years later . Long bow .... Maybe you guys should have read of it . ( wa sharks :- where to from here ) .
will be speaking to a GWS expert today , as yesterday had a discussion with journalist , I presented the "whalegate" evidence of councils burying whales on the beach , which create's a burley line which must attract sharks.
In the conversation , another fact came up which also has an enormous affect on the current conditions on the N Coast. the Whale population has radically increased on the East Coast of Australia since the ban on whaling in 1978.
In 2000 , 294 whales went past Sydney , last year it has been estimated between 3000 to 20000 , which shows an amazing population explosion , which also means the chance of an increase in dead whales which is one of the favoured foods for sharks especially GWS.
I don't think there has been anybody here that disagrees with Whale meat is high on a GWS's menu , and with the report of a dead whale in the ocean at Ballina a couple of weeks before Tadashi was killed , and , the council buried the whale on the beach just before the attack, now there are a lot of shark sightings in the Ballina and I imagine for at least a couple of years until the carcass decomposes completely, scientists please how long for a whale to decompose?
When you add up , most whales we have seen in our lifetimes ,and an ever increasing population , warmer waters more bait fish , more people using the ocean than ever , then you go and put a GWS lure for the N coast , called whale burley , seems like there's a logical answer to the current problem.
Sharkman,
This is the point a few people have been making. Significant increase in the east coast whale population has resulted in a change in the great white population and behaviour. Previously when the whale population was reduced the juvenile great whites from Stockton may have headed south to the seal colonies to get their protein fix. As the whale population has increased there is more food available for the great whites to follow up the coast and they are now here in higher numbers. Subsequently some enviro factor has resulted in a concentration in the Ballina / Byron area. The question is, has this been a one -off or will it be an annual event and if it does continue to occur how do we manage it?
The buried whale idea is interesting. It's pretty amazing to see how far a few drops of tuna oil can spread on the sea surface and what it does to promote feeding behaviour, so a large whale mass could potentially generate a lot of scent. There can be practical issues with removing whales from the beach, I remember as a kid when they tried to tow a sperm whale off Soldiers Beach by the tail and it just snapped off. Getting in early before any dead whale ends up on the beach would be the way to go. Otherwise if it gets stuck on the beach, cutting it into pieces for disposal at the tip might be needed...bags not that job.
.
[quote=Distracted]Sharkman,
This is the point a few people have been making. Significant increase in the east coast whale population has resulted in a change in the great white population and behaviour. Previously when the whale population was reduced the juvenile great whites from Stockton may have headed south to the seal colonies to get their protein fix. As the whale population has increased there is more food available for the great whites to follow up the coast and they are now here in higher numbers. Subsequently some enviro factor has resulted in a concentration in the Ballina / Byron area. The question is, has this been a one -off or will it be an annual event and if it does continue to occur how do we manage it?
The buried whale idea is interesting. It's pretty amazing to see how far a few drops of tuna oil can spread on the sea surface and what it does to promote feeding behaviour, so a large whale mass could potentially generate a lot of scent. There can be practical issues with removing whales from the beach, I remember as a kid when they tried to tow a sperm whale off Soldiers Beach by the tail and it just snapped off. Getting in early before any dead whale ends up on the beach would be the way to go. Otherwise if it gets stuck on the beach, cutting it into pieces for disposal at the tip might be needed...bags not that job.[/quote
100 times more whales, warm water , heaps of bait balls , way more ocean users, which means ,all means more sharks .
add trying to attract sharks by having chum lines coming off the beach for years on end and that's why we have the current problem on the N Coast.
Cut up any whale carcasses and get them off the beach or more of what you have now.
https://www.traveller.com.au/a-giant-leap-and-a-tourism-bonanza-2nh9p
Certainly not a definitive answer but best I've found yet from someone with a degree of knowledge on the subject.
https://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2006-08/1154472620.En.r.html
And this article about cleaning up a Blue Whale skeleton for museum display...whatever the answer on full decomposition it is years, with accompanying residuals lasting even longer.
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/19/worlds_most_famous_dead_blue_whale_gets_buried_in_manure.html
TripperG , sounds like if you take the maximum decomposition time at 4 years , there is a real possibility that a lot of the attacks and sightings are because of the burley / food depots we put next to the surf .
the next question is , how many whales have been buried on the N coast beaches in the last few years?
I remember when the whale was buried at Cott how the old fisherman talked of the madness of that action and how it would create a big burley trail for the whites during whale and salmon seasons.
Their memories went back to a time before white populations had been decimated and talked of how many whites would frequent inshore, following the deep gutter than ran from outside of Rotto all the way to Cott...a white highway on the smell of tasty delights...then the Cott council bury the whale right at the end of the highway.
.
I remember hearing of speculation around buried whale carcasses in WA a couple of summers ago. Definitely an interesting avenue for investigation.
Another one...Central coast..non fatal,hand lacerations.
stu , it would be interesting to get Nick to comment on some of the info re: buried whale carcasses , as there is a potential Pandora's box to be opened with council/Govt being responsible for the buryings .
As these carcasses will take many years to decompose , the current shark problem will possibly last for many years to come unless something is done.
I am amazed that some of the people on this forum , who have been calling for culling , have not weighed into the "whale burley " discussion , and started their own investigations into Councils policy of burying dead whales on the beach, and also how many whales have been buried on beaches on the N Coast in the last 5 years!
"and with more than 50 million sharks killed a year "
OK, I'm just calling bullshit on that, right here, right now. 50 million!
Start counting now, by ones, and when I have been in my grave for 20 or 30 years you will reach 50 million. Utter fucking bullshit, so many assumptions built into that it just isn't funny. Fark I hate statistics that are just pulled out of people's arses. No way that anyone can verify those numbers. Not possible, our systems of recording catches just aren't that good.
Yes, I deal with statistics all day.
Even it if it were true, the only relevance is statistics around the actual shark populations specific to the area, and largely we are talking about an unprecedented run of shark attacks on the east coast.
It is hardly credible that the killing of half a dozen or a dozen large GWS across the east coast will have the slightest farking difference to population levels. Even the most credible scientists will admit that we know very little to not much at all about the GWS population.
But given that there have been statistically significant numbers of shark attacks across the entire east coast, in numbers way beyond any 'cluster' variant, it is reasonable and scientific to assume that their numbers are getting pretty freaking high by historical standards.
They aren't beautiful animals, they're just sharks. Steve nailed it with the anthropomorphism comment.
And as for whether there is a moral dimension to this, I'll happily go vegetarian (again) to make up for the karma of killing a small number of sharks, and happily take the positive karma of all those beautiful dolphins and tuna and salmon that don't meet a grisly death at the hands of the sharks that get killed.
Something ultra weird is going on at the moment, and it is a question of whether I can surf or whether a batch of man eaters live, I choose surfing.
Fark that, I haven't got a lot to look forward to in life, take surfing away and I'm contemplating my options.
here Batfink , try reading this , as it shows shark deaths at between 70 million to 200 million,
https://www.livescience.com/27575-100-million-sharks-killed-annually.html
you say there is something super weird going on on the N coast with all the sightings and attacks , there are plenty of antidotes on this forum dissecting the weirdness , and as you can see ,some of the weirdness is an explosion in the whale population and ocean users , water is warmer , more bait fish and it looks like the councils have added to the weirdness by having a policy of burying whales on beaches , which attracts sharks.
add all of the above , mix it all up and you have the current situation on the N coast , and looks like it will stay that way for probably 5 years plus , so get used to it.
BF , sounds like you want to cull , what about culling all the whales?
We could cull all the whales , so the sharks would not come in following their pesky carcasses , or are whales too cute in your opinion compared to whales.
Or change surf locations , your mate steve has not been sighted since all this info has been put up , journalists on SN not interested in asking councils why they have a policy of burying whales on beaches , how many have they buried and why?
sounds like you might be one less surfer up there!
The buried whale theory isn't new Sharkman, and there might well be something in it. Trying to find out where they buried it. If well up behind the dunes then I don't think it's much of a theory.
But there was a humpback washed up on Belongil 2008 I think and following that we started to see more regular sightings of whites, followed by encounters, bumpings and then attacks.
Warmer water? There was an antarctic leopard seal on the beach at Shellys on the weekend.https://www.northernstar.com.au/photos/antarctic-leopard-seal-shelly-bea…
More people in the water? Nope, there's far less and the sharks are still there. Still being sighted daily. 3m white tagged off S. Wall yesterday. More sighted at Lennox.
So, yes, the presence of buried whales might be an attractor, but we're still left with the problem of how to deal with the increased numbers of whites.
That problem is only going to increase as their food sources continue to increase.
The deaths of other shark species in other parts of the worlds oceans is irrelevant to the problem of increased white interactions on the east coast.
free76 , were you aware that the whales were buried on the beach at ballina and Coffs , in Feb and July respectively?
free76 were you aware that in 2000 there were 250 whales reported migrating nth , today there has been a 100 fold increase ?
yes there is less people now using the ocean , but in the last 15 years , as whale numbers increases , more carcasses , more sharks , and then councils create burley bubbles on the beach , pretty simple to me.
This is possibly the eco-system being re-established , which means ever present whites , you should make a call to the councils and ask where,when and why is there a policy of burying whales on the beach?
So maybe this not an increase in GWS's but them coming back to their ecosystem?
as I have said before , fear is an interesting emotion, some people can surf huge waves ,some people can't because of their fear , same as surfing , when its big there are less people in the water , and now surfers have a choice , surf and be part of the food chain or stop ,or move somewhere else!
That's a false dichotomy because there is a clear third choice: shark management strategies.
free76 , are you prepared to wait a couple of years for information to be gathered , so a management plan can be put in place , based on science and not fear/emotion?
I don't think I've got much choice, unless god forbid, another attack happens here before the end of the year, in which case there'll be nets in place by Xmas.
But I haven't got a great deal of faith in the current science and thats despite having a degree in science majoring in marine biology.
There's as much emotion on the anti-cull/no management side as there is on the cull side, if not more; because that side of the debate has to pander politically to the inner city greens movement who have hoisted the White shark into a sort of quasi-religious cult.
spot-on freeride76, there needs to be a management strategy in this case, and it need not take forever to get something in place, sooner the better, analysis paralysis to be avoided. it's not simply a matter of either hugging all sharks and resigning our fate in the water entirely to chance or indiscriminately culling sharks on the other hand. neither of those two options are viable in this day and age. we already have at hand the insight and the technology to facilitate safer and more enjoyable surf conditions whilst keeping shark populations healthy and relatively free, though I would like to see anyone responsible for any measure of shark attracting behaviour hung, drawn and quartered then burnt to cinders, promptly.
Free76 , the only way a management plan can be implemented , is by the scientists and relevant authorities agreeing on facts and having them produce a management plan that mirrors the knowledge collected.
I think the anti-cull movement are, yes ,what you call city greens , but they at least have a scientific basis to their claims , not like the knee jerk reaction of the people calling for a cull.
will have a lot more info coming on whales being buried on the beach up your way, question free76, which way do the coastal currnets run in winter N or S?
Depends on the season, but at the least currents slacken in winter or run uphill, especially if we have an active winter of surf from the S/SE.
Seems to me though the EAC has been more active in winter over the last few years, although that maybe purely an observational bias.
free76 , just wondering if all the south swells and winds in winter might be carrying the scent of dead whale all the way up to Byron , which could mean the whole coast is awash in dead whale scent??
My main objection to Nick's original hypothesis and to some degree to the buried whale hypothesis is that they seem to bypass the most obvious explanation (Occam's razor) for the recent spate of white shark attacks both in NSW and off WA that being a rebound in white shark numbers.
Don't forget we had whaling stations operating at Tangalooma until 1962 and at Albany until 1978 and as far as I'm aware we didn't have attack hotspots associated with these obvious sources of berley. I am aware that large white sharks were regularly attracted to the Albany station.
Trying to link attacks with recent cases of whales washing ashore lacks objectivity as presumably they have also washed ashore in spots where no recent attacks have occurred . It also seems unlikely that products from truly putrefying whales would continue to attract white sharks.
As someone with a similar background to Freeride I remain cautious about more research unless it informs the maths around the status of the white shark population.
Excuse further harping but Sharkman's suggested that whites were somewhere else until the humpbacks starting washing shore. Where?
While they do make oceanic trips evidence from longline fleets indicate they are a very infrequent bycatch on longlines set in oceanic waters (even with wire traces). More likely is that like other overfished stocks they tend to recede to core habitat i.e. the GAB and any expansion back into their pre-exploitation habitat is correlated with signals that stocks are rebuilding. Southern Bluefin Tuna becoming more common off NSW recently is perhaps a loose parallel.
nige not harping , just contributing , sounds good to me.
I think GWS numbers have increased , as the amount of juveniles , seems to be a big part of the attacks.
There has always been stories of big whites at Byron /tallows , especially in the old days , but there were very few whales , there has been a huge increase in whales , why not GWS's ?
Yet there was also shit loads of whales 12 months ago, yet no sharks taste testing people or cruising through 1ft line ups
how many dead whales
You didn't ask for dead whales, just whales!
Quote "There has always been stories of big whites at Byron /tallows , especially in the old days , but there were very few whales , there has been a huge increase in whales , why not GWS's ?"
Very few whales because we stabbed them with harpoons and killed them all. Then chucked all their guts into the ocean, plus added all the abattoir run off into the ocean as well. That's why the sharks were there, not because a lack of whales!!!
How many dead whales ?
calf mortality rate of 0.875%
population growth of 10.6%
26,100 whales along the east coast in 2008
2014 population of 47,771, of these 5063 new calves born, gives you a number of 44 dead baby humpback whales
There was only 268 whales in 1968 and they live for 77 years, so we can't expect to see a population die off until the year 2045
Say the 268 whales were born prior to 1968, you have 3.48 mature whales dying each year as an approximate
So 44 dead baby humpbacks and 3.48 dead mature whales this year
Note: this does not take into account natural mortality before reaching 77 years of age
And further note, every journal or paper is quoting different numbers on the actual population of whales
yeah uncle , interesting when you extrapolate the numbers of whales and their mortality rates , which shows there is a lot more whale meat floating around , and more sharks.
Do you think as whale populations keep on increasing , that the GWS problem will increase?
Do you think that a solution is burying the dead whales on the beach??
seems like there has been a population explosion of whales,whites and ocean users , something is out of whack!
nige , interesting points you make about the GWS population simply growing.
Not sure you can say ,using the examples of Albany and Tangalooma , that because there were no hotspots the theory falls over . there were so few people using the oceans in those days compared to now , and as sharks are scavengers ,putrefying whales are on the top of the menu , more to come on what the so called shark expert say .
But your idea about increasing numbers has a lot of merit , more whales , more sharks, more people using the sharks habitat equals a recipe for more attacks!
Sharkman........ swellnets new expert on sharks.............6 pages of repettitive hypothesis.
As a visiting surfer I can remember big crowds at Byron in the late 1970s as well as unfriendly advice from locals.
The Russians fished humpbacks to near extinction in the early 1960s, it takes a while for relatively slow breeding species to recover but they are now going great guns.
White sharks were not protected until the 1990s so I think it's just a case of lag. Reiterating an earlier post I suggest that continuing additional mortality due to recreational fishing, bather protection programs and bycatch in gillnets hindered their recovery. Rationalisation of shark gillnet fisheries have reduced effort and probably bycatch mortality an I understand that shark control program now release whites.
That's my 20 c worth.
For those who missed my earlier post -
'Flow, Freeride, Mk1 et al we are wasting our breath on the likes of Sharkman and Rabbits.
They have such a blinkered view of the real world that no amount of rational argument will change their minds.
I suggest we ignore them rather than give them further cause to espouse their distorted philosophies.
Signing off.'
Fer chrissake, don't feed this dickhead's (sharkman's) ego any longer! We all know the answer to the problem so best we shut up and hope he goes away.
thween , its people like you that are the problem, in one breath you say, 'we all know the answer to the problem" ,please enlighten us instead of playing the man , and put forth your culling argument !
As for ego , I have actually learnt a lot on this forum researching and talking to GWS specialists and why their could be so many sharks on the N coast. This your problem not mine , do you even surf?
fitzroy-21 commented Wednesday, 9 Sep 2015 at 4:44pm
Sharkman........ swellnets new expert on sharks.............6 pages of repettitive hypothesis.
and what the fuck have you contributed Fitzy , a week ago it was posted that councils have been burying whales on the beaches on the N coast , a week ago number were put up that show an explosion in the whale population , so that's been this week . I am not an expert as you try to cynically claim , but sure enjoy talking to them and researching some of the claims being made here.
Fitzy and thween fuck off back to your sea of ignorance , why even bother posting?
Hahahaha, took the bait and ran.
You obviously haven't read through the entire thread and are only interested to your own mantra.
I'm no expert but 40 odd years living and breathing the ocean allows me some pretty close observations.
Eat a dick sharkman.
EDIT: and working in conjuction with JCU in the capture ands research of many sharks for years, ie they were struggling to capture the very large sharks and requested my assistance.
Whilst I agree with part of you hypothesis, I don't believe it is a major contribrution.
eat a dick fitzy , are you offering yours , seems you might have an infatuation with me and getting your dick sucked by a man,ah well that says a lot about you as a person, and if you are gay ,I have no problem with that either
I have read the whole thread and have questioned some of the cull ramblings , and also just because you have been on the ocean for 40 years so have I , and have had a fair bit of contact with GWS's ,Fisherman etc,so just like you fitzy , where have you been in that 40 years , don't you come from up north somewhere.?
May I ask a question of the shark experts?
If there was never any handle on GWS numbers in days gone past , nor in the recent past, how is it determined they are endangered/threatened?
To quote the Dpmt of Environment Issue paper from 2013;
"About this document
This issues paper has been developed to support the new recovery plan and includes information on the biology and ecology of the white shark, the species' current conservation status, a description of the key threats endangering the species' survival in Australian waters and recommendations for future research. Some of the key findings of this paper are:
•There is currently no reliable estimate of the total size of the Australian white shark population and therefore no robust measure of population trends or status. This lack of information makes it difficult to assess the effectiveness of any actions undertaken to conserve the species.
•Fishing pressure from the recreational and commercial sectors represents an ongoing, but largely unquantified, threat to the white shark in Australian waters. Mortalities as a result of the state government administered bather protection programs are also a potential threat.
•The need remains to identify habitats, migratory paths and specific locations that are used to meet essential life cycle requirements of white sharks, such as mating, pupping, temporary residence sites during migration and feeding, and to minimise threats at these localities.
Despite significant advances in the knowledge base concerning the white shark in Australian waters over the past decade, continuation of research into their ecology and biology, as well as into causes of anthropogenic mortality, will assist in developing programs to aid the long-term recovery of this species.
https://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/publications/reco…
Hey Tootr, I'm no shark expert & I don't have the answer to your question but that info you posted made for some interesting reading, thanks. In the short term if a cull of one or several GWS is required to "satisfy/ease the fear/make it safe"etc for those in favour, so be it, however I reckon there's no doubt that the following paragraph sums up the medium/long term solution IMO:
"The need remains to identify habitats, migratory paths and specific locations that are used to meet essential life cycle requirements of white sharks, such as mating, pupping, temporary residence sites during migration and feeding, and to minimise threats at these localities."
I'd like to know how many whale carcasses have been buried, when and where exactly they are? Where would records of these events be found and are the 'authorities' getting this data together I'm wondering?....
tootr , you are right with your post about knowing how many GWS's are there really are and why were they put on the endangered species list.
the link to CSIRO , shows that there is a lot work going on currently in establishing the GWS numbers , and learning about where and how they breed ,and how and what they will feed on,
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Sharks
Interestingly the sharks off the Neptunes looked to have gone missing again..
https://www.sharkcagediving.com.au/shark-tours/shark-sightings-2/
I missed Q&A this week but heard that Geoffrey Robertson twice asked Mike Baird what he was going to do to stop the shark attacks in NSW and got little response. Someone please respond to this if they saw the show.
I"m guessing that he can see that by sitting on it's hands and hoping the sharks will go away the government is leaving itself wide open to litigation from the victims and rightly so in my opinion.
There has been many theories put forward on this forum about why the sharks are hanging around tides, moon phases, time of day, water temp whales etc but as far as I can see every theory has been blown out the water by the statistics surrounding the attacks.
A shark is just a dangerous fish and should be treated no differently to a dangerous dog or a crocodile in my opinion. Closing a beach for a day or so after a shark attack then reopening it is negligent in the extreme in my opinion.
I have it on good authority that a litigation case is being prepared by a victim in another state and I find it bloody distressing that it has come to this . Just wondering how many more human lives will be lost or ruined before something is done. Unfortunately the human cost of this is being ignored by the sharkhuggers.
LW , at least the Govt has committed $250 K dollars to tagging and finding out how many sharks are up on the N coast.
As for the litigation aspect , not sure how you could prove negligence by a Govt , unless it was proved that Councils acted outside current process's and policy's .
one way to avoid any danger is close the beaches , but would surfers abide by this, would local economies survive the beaches being closed for long periods of time?
how long would you suggest after a shark attack , that the beaches be closed?
as for shark huggers , yeah we are the guys calling for more research , a more understanding to try and work out is there a way to manage the sharks and understand why they behave as they do.
the human cost is not being ignored by shark huggers , just a more logical approach in finding long term solutions and not emotional knee jerk short term feel good solutions , like just kill them all!
Litigation - The Kyle Burden attack ?
No. A survivor who is now unable to look after himself.
So someone makes a conscious choice to go for a surf, suffers the highly unlikely/horrific event of a shark attack, then feels the need to blame/litigate against the council/government because the location they choose to surf proved to be "unsafe"?!? Imagine that, the ocean being an unsafe environment. Hard to believe.
Wow. What next? What is the difference between someone suffering injury or drowning at a surf location as supposed to a shark attack? We don't close surf locations from a liability point of view after a surfing related injury or death. Why not?
I'm not suggesting that a cull is or isn't the answer short term, my point is that we all make the concious decision to enter an environment that is out of our control, it's wild. If someone is not aware of that before entering then that is ignorance is the highest order & not grounds for legal defense IMO.
In response to Rabbits68, you may be misinterpreting the paragraph below you cited from the Dept of Environment paper:
"The need remains to identify habitats, migratory paths and specific locations that are used to meet essential life cycle requirements of white sharks, such as mating, pupping, temporary residence sites during migration and feeding, and to minimise threats at these localities."
The minimising threat bit is about protecting white sharks not people!
Thanks Nige. Understood. My general take from that paragraph was the need to establish more knowledge of these GWS movements. Then we might take some of the guess work out the issue that's currently bubbling away......
A shame that sharkman and rabbit can't recall previous posts (24 Aug) like -
' Just wondering - is there a legal case for those attacked in NSW to sue the DPI/State govt for negligence? IMHO there would be as the 3 elements of the tort appear to exist in that -
1. the DPI/State govt owes a duty of care to protect those in NSW from foreseeable actions (or inaction) which could cause harm,
2. the DPI/State govt has, by failing to act to protect beach users, breached that duty of care, and
3. shark attack victims (at least since the threat became more obvious ) have suffered injury as a result of that inaction.
Although the defence of contributory negligence would apply, this should not be sufficient for such a lawsuit to fail.'
PS Sharkman, you have now proven to us that you really are an ignorant peanut of the highest order ( 'kill them all') - please go away
Hey Theween, not sure what your point is above? So in your opinion you believe people should have the right to litigate against shark attack? That's your opinion fair enough. I simply don't think it's anyone else's responsibility other than the person that makes the choice to enter the ocean. It' ok to disagree....
Putting me & Sharkman or anyone else down with your rhetoric isn't really adding anything to the discussion. To Sharkmans credit he has remained pretty clear & consistent & has contributed positively to the discussion with his opinions.
Sorry we won't go away for your benefit. You never know Theween, if you hang around, you may just learn something, unless you've closed your mind on the issue already.......
Flake.......tastes nice .
Flake and seared baby whale steak burgers out of a caravan kiosk in the top carpark
see, 2 wrongs do make a right!!
Totally with Rabbits, litigation against who and what?
It's your choice to go surfing, it's a raw and wild environment with many dangers including sharks.
To go down this path isn't good at all.
Agree with Rabbits and Craig, to go down this path, will next mean registration of surf craft, insurance who pays for the increases in council and Government insurances? Us as the tax payer. We as surfers make our choice to go in the ocean
would be handy if someone (sharkman?) was formatting the info being posted here in a readily digestible manner.
would also be handy to define a few terms too:
"white pointer" - dangerous predator
"surfer" - junk food
"shark hugger" - numbskull
"shark culler" - redneck
"local government" - handbrake
"local government worker" - snoozer
"science" - alchemy
"ignorance" - bliss
"conscious decision" - bullshit
I went to go surf the Point and it was junky with a bait ball the size of a footy field hovering on the bank. Plenty of shapes swimming into it.
Pass.
if anyone is looking for a sound intro to history of human interactions with white pointers, try "White Pointer South" by Chris Black. it is a hefty coffee table tome with lots of facts and piccies and well worth a read.
Good call FR76. Nature in progress, steer clear.....
Yeah, I'm going to Fiji tomorrow and I want all my limbs with me.
Enjoy Steve, hope you score and have a great time. Love the place.
Yeah, looking fun!
Interesting read….Ive bee expecting it will be our turn for an attack down here in Vic but hopefully with all the seals and penguins down here in Vic our sharks won't get hungry.
Indo I've been wondering the same thing for quiet a long time now. Fingers crossed nothing's going to happen but it's only a matter of time surely..
One thing which has been over looked by a lot of people is the effects El Niño & La Niña events have on GWS distribution and behavior in Australian waters. Is it possible the strengthening El Niño is contributing to the increase in whites on the north coast. From my observation I would say yes. The 2006/2007 El Niño years although not overly strong, whites were prolific, hanging around well in to early summer.
There's plenty of old news articles out there from the incidents and near misses during this time. Check out the links below.
https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/miracle-shark-escape/2007/10/15/119…
https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/great-whites-caught-at-popular-surf…
more great info GS, so there were multiple sightings of 15+ and juveniles at Evanshead,in 2006 , attacks at Byron in 2007 with multiple sightings , will be great to see what the scientists can come up with all the info they are getting now.
It seems to me that the GWS's have always been there, their numbers have increased , the whales have increased a 100 fold, ocean users even more , warmer waters , mre bait fish , and then there are whales carcasses buried on beaches , and a lot more dead whales out to sea , add all this up and we might be watching a quantum shift back in the eco-system , but more knowledge is more power in coming up with managed solutions.
Tootr very well mentioned on the burying of whale carcases being long term burley reservoirs - that is one action/policy that could be a case of future litigation. And something the ol' timers knew very well of. Surfing in oily film of incoming whale carcass.... ewww, been there & done that. Oily film of craypot bait, ewww.
Sharkman good posts of late, I don't think we will go back to that ecosystem of old as of the industrial scale fishing offshore, this was never there before and is a tremendous imbalance.
Rabbits applauded Sharkman for his balanced posts .....
Yeah and he shut down Fitzy without realising that Fitz knows his stuff , and that again he seems to not have read through this thread or more importantly the other threads previous where people like freeride , Fitz and other old salts have given incredible feedback that has and is being used by experts .
Southey funny how some of you guys who have been posting for years , the moment you disagree or put up a different hypothesis , you go and get personal , as did Fitzy asking me to eat his dick.
when you guys get personal , it shows that rather than contribute , you'd rather shoot the messenger , and get personal.
All I am doing is researching , listening , reading and asking questions with the goal of possibly eliminating shark myths and getting a better understanding of the eco-system we all use!
I spoke to a copuple of shark experts the last week , and they are actually now investigating why authorities bury whales on beaches as both said that even if you bury the whale up in the sand dune it will leach into the water table and go out to sea , to be continued
And this is where you don't get it sharkman, you read and see what you want to hear. Re-read my post. I said "eat a dick", not mine, you're the one with an infatuation..................and I couldn't be assed replying to your earlier shit as you are too one eyed to have a logical discussion with. Bye.
oh so you want me to eat someone elses dick , sorry , your writing skills seem to be a bit random as is my comprehension.
So because in your opinion I am too one eyed to have a logical discussion with , you want me to eat someone elses dick but yours , OK I bite ( pardon the pun) , who?
try contributing something , unless of course you know it all, already?
Thanks for putting your ignorance on display for all to see Southey. Clearly you haven't been following thread & instead just chose to launch a personal attack with no input to the topic, unlike your salty expert mates. Maybe you should spend less time stalking & more time reading.
Thank God you & your salty mates are onboard because the rest of us wouldn't have a clue what where talking about, let alone have any experience on the topic. You epitomize perfection Southey. Your a legend mate. Thanks for everything....
The fact is none of these so-called experts have a clue what is going on , so until they figure it out, which won't be next week, but could be never, a limited cull should happen to at least possibly reduce the risk of another attack. Better than doing nothing .
check out the whale carcass being eaten at sea , and then on the beach...
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/closeup-footage-shows-sha…
A quick question, today's surf was mostly offshore where we were, the east in the wind bringing small sideshore collections of bumps into the faces. But picture offshore, small waves.
What appeared to be a narrow, windless 'slick' was winding out to sea from the centre of the back beach area, beginning just past the break. Grom asked me what it was & I couldn't answer to be honest. It wasn't a windshift, and it didn't appear to be spume or foam made by set waves on a headland. Was it a rip? Anyone have an answer?
Just a wind streak seen usually when winds are fresh offshore or stronger.
I don't know how they develop and am intrigued as well. They kind of resist the wind, ie stay glassy when other areas of ocean are wind effected.
Probably just a quieter zone between gusts and developing from shadowing of the wind from the land feature it's blowing off?
Thanks Craig.
Might have been spawn , or residual slick from a school of fish that sheltered in a gutter overnight.
Might have been a kill or a conflux of currents or even an extremely localised thermal differential .
Could have been a sperm slick from a merman circle jerk.
The latter being extremely unlikely.
Merman being notoriously shy sexually .
More than likely a current line.
"The man in charge of a shark tagging operation on the far north coast believes most of the great whites that have haunted the area are now elsewhere."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-13/shark-tagging-resume/6848950
Shark reports FB have just reported 4 Great whites, Lighthouse Beach, South Ballina and Sharpes Beach Ballina. So much for his theory
He was referencing the tagged sharks; they had moved on. From the article:
"Two sharks went all the way up to Queensland," he said.
"One is still there off the Rainbow Beach area."
"One shark is already down at the nursery grounds at Hawks Nest, two other animals look like they're on their way to the nursery grounds."
Mr Peddimores said others had tended to stay south of Evans Head, where a surfer was mauled by a shark in July.
"[They have moved] between Evans Head and Yamba but quite a long way offshore," he said.
The Shark report FB page reported a 4m White sighting 20m of Currumbin Beach on Sunday
Ben, the headlining statement to the article states "The head of a shark-tagging operation on the New South Wales far north coast says he believes most of the great white sharks that have haunted the area are now elsewhere." he states about the whereabouts of the tag sharks and comments at the end that "So I wouldn't be at all surprised if I do my first flight and I find only one or two sharks in the entire stretch between Evans Head and Byron."
They are obviously still around
Of course there are still some sharks around, I'm not terribly surprised. The interesting point from the ABC article is how much they're moving around.
Tagging has started again.
SHARK REPORT FLAT ROCK NSW
Fisheries NSW
Tuesday 13 October
1250
White shark - 2.9 m female tagged and released.
Caught Nth end of Sharpes Beach, Ballina and released 700m off Flat Rock.
Took my daughter surfing at Sharpes this morning...gulp.
Is there still many sightings and encounters happening Freeride?
There was a close encounter at Boulders less than two weeks ago.
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/great-white-shark-spotted-close-eno…
tbh I thought we might have been seeing a decrease in shark activity.
But Day One of the new tagging programm and three whites were spotted, including the one tagged off sharps.
That indicates to me there are still significant numbers of whites in the area and contradicts Pedamoors claim.
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/white-shark-tagging-continues-balli…
SHARK SIGHTINGS - MULTIPLE - BALLINA NSW REGION
The Fisheries helicopter has sighted 4 sharks today in the Ballina area.
Lighthouse Beach . 11.15 am. White shark moving offshore.
South Ballina beach - 10.30 am. Two white sharks moving offshore.
Sharps Beach - 11.30 am. White shark moving offshore.
SHARK REPORT SOUTH BALLINA BEACH
Fisheries NSW
Wednesday 14 October
1045 am
White shark - 2.45m male tagged and released.
Caught and released 3.8 km south of Ballina break-wall along south Ballina beach.
Many thanks to the DPI for letting us know
The Shark Reports Team
This is news the shark-huggers don't wish to know about, they'd rather pretend it's not an issue. Unfortunately it will be a major issue for the next poor bastard attacked (only a matter of time).
At least we can all sleep soundly knowing that our endangered friends are not threatened in any way.
Can we really say these things are endangered?
I think all the evidence points to them being at least locally common.
This region is crawling with juvenile/young adult whites.
Freeride have you seen the data of where they are hanging straight off Evans Head https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/six-tagged-great-whites-sharks-loit… as per my previous comments
Theween,
Don't think you can call someone a shark hugger just because they don't believe in culling or because someone wants to protect sharks. Everyone should have there own opinion on issues around sharks without being called a shark hugger even if you disagree with it.
Hi Nick
I don't think 'shark hugger' is too harsh given that the attitude of these people is responsible for on-going disfigurement and deaths to beach users in Northern NSW. It's a bit rich to be offended by this label when clearly such people condone shark attacks on surfers.
are you saying because people say that sharks shouldn't be culled , we are responsible for the injuries from sharks? you are a fucken Moron!!!
Well, sharkboy, what other conclusion can be drawn? If you don't support reducing/eliminating the threat then you must be advocating the rights of sharks to attack surfers.
BTW 'Moron' is a derogatory term used by bigots.
are you for real moron , is just an opinion on your mental capacities and small intellect , that you think because most people don't see the solution of killing all sharks because there are a few attacks . You seem to blame the logic and reason of the scientists who study the sharks , on the deaths and attacks.
you seem to be suggesting that people who are shark Huggers , are guilty of the attacks , would you suggest manslaughter charges?
I am not sure that you know that there are more people killed by elephants , 500 pa, and maybe 10 world wide by sharks .
Culling didn't work in WA , maybe look at why we bury whales on beaches , where the shark attacks have occurred such as Ballina!
Burying whales on beaches?
Really??
Thats the first time we've heard of that.
been on some of the other posts, 10 whales have been buried on beaches in NSW in the last 2 years. One was buried on the beach at Ballina a week before Tadashi was killed .A whale was also buried on the beach a couple of K's from gracetown before all the attacks there. So far no-one seems to have really investigatd this , even though its well known that sharks love whale meat .
SHARK REPORT LIGHTHOUSE BEACH BALLINA NSW
Fisheries NSW
Thursday 15 October
1530 pm
White shark - 2.85 female. Tagged and released.
Released offshore from Lighthouse Headland, Ballina
The Shark Reports Team
I wonder if the ones that were tagged off Ballina did the runner because they didn't think it was such a nice place to hang out anymore?
Think of it like this; somebody throws out a bait , you latch on to it and the next thing you know you've got a dirty big hook stuck in your mouth! Then they skull drag you to a boat where they drag you on board, do all sorts of nasty tests on you then stick a tag in you before letting you go miles from where you were caught!
I know I'd soon get the hell out of there .
So maybe tagging sharks might scare them away from Ballina but certainly won't give true indications of what and where they would normally be doing.
To see 4 on the first day of resumption of tagging certainly suggests that there is a lot more out there than the "experts" would lead us to believe.
Thanks for the info Freeride and so they are still hanging where the attacks were so surf Ballina with caution fellas !
The Pass closed , 2 juvenile GWS lurking ...numerous sighting yesterday also
Air T@G Ballina.
Here's a video worth watching on Beach grit - it's about communicating with Great White sharks , those misunderstood divine beings, by a lady called Anna Breytanbach .
A few delicious contradictions in there.
I'll let you discover them for yourself.
I especially enjoyed where she apologised for getting " weird and hippy " by saying that energy flows.
Whilst I'm extremely open minded regarding the unknown qualities of life on this beautiful planet, I'm still at a loss as to how she can maintain a straight face throughout.
Pure talent.
Maybe she been sampling goods from around a few to many of Byron's cow pats.
shark cluster I Nth California 10 -18 footers , lots of juveniles , not normal , maybe all those Nth coast sharks went for a holiday to Nth Cal!
Sharkboy, you continue to astound with your amazing intellect. I always thought 'culling' did not mean 'killing all sharks' but obviously you know better. I also thank-you for educating me on the behaviour of the elephant. Maybe you could start your own wildlife series? Suggest you look at bee-stings or magpie-swooping in your next instalment.
Here is a theory that came out of the Mens Shed the other night - that Orca's are the largest carnivorous mammal in the ocean, and the apex killer. The talk in the shed reckons Orca's are missing from the equation on the north coast, that Orca's would sort these pesty little sharks out and run 'em out of dodge.
Further - that govt $$ budget should be allocated to train a select team of Orca's to run lifeguard duty. Bring the balance back. Get Willie on the team.
Mark mono Stewart reckons its cull time.
Who's he? And why is his opinion worthy of a comment?
Mono is a local Byron surfer...Mono as he has one leg and he just recently won world title in adaptive surfing champs...also does all the sprays on MR's boards...and no he didn't lose his leg to a shark (bone cancer).
Don't even know if that's his opinion or why it's up here??
Article in northern star I think.
Mono comments in Ballina Advocate story : GWS census could justify cull.
More activity around Evans Head this week, from the Dorsal Shark Reports facebook page:
"Public Shark Report: NSW - EVANS HEAD. 11:27, 29 Jul 16, 2.86m, Great White, Receiver Tag, BEACH CLOSURE - MAIN BEACH EVANS HEAD
Due to 22 shark detections from the DPI Buoy since Sunday, and a visual sighting yesterday the Main Beach at Evans Head is CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
Since Sunday Shark # 15 a 2.35 metre female Great White, and Shark #26 a 2.86 metre female Great White have been detected hanging around the area.
Authorities believe they are feeding in large schools of bait fish.
An evaluation of the situation will be made this afternoon."
Interesting to see this old post dragged up , again , and still calling for culling because , now you are just seeing sharks . how many shatk attacks has there been on the North Coast in the last 18 mths ?
good read, had a enough of the cull / protect points of view that don't offer any insight, wonder if this may apply to "situation's" over here in WA, again good read.
I'm going to put this out there just because I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet. Could the recent increase in shark attacks have anything to do with an increasing amount of shark shields being worn in the waves? My understanding of how these gadgets work is that an electric field is created by the shark shield that from a distance would seem the same as an animal in distress or exerting itself. Then it's not until the shark is close enough to the shark shield that the electric field becomes uncomfortably strong and the shark is driven away. If this is how the gadgets work, one could imply that sharks (especially large predatory species ie. GWS, that hunt other large marine animals) from near and far are being attracted toward the surf zones by the shark shield, then being driven away from the person wearing the shield, leaving a shark that has been excited into a hunting state, looking for food, close to shore, possibly around any number of people who haven't acquired a shark shield yet.
If one person wears a shield, do we all need to have one? or should the person(s) wearing them be ejected from the waves?
Don't think you're being ignored Bah Flie, just that this question has been asked a great many times before and has even received a few answers. See Shark Shield articles for starters.
Paraphrasing some of those answers: there's very little chance of attracting sharks because the charge travels such a short distance in water. Sharks cant even detect it more than a couple of metres away (at the very most). Actual distances and numbers were quoted in some of those articles.
why waste so much money and effort on such silly things oiley? there's a life out there!!
if people are worried about sharx when they surf they shouldn't be in the water - particularly people like brett hardy in margaret river who thinks they should be culled.
we created the environment that has caused this problem but i won't go into that here (if you get a copy of the local margaret river times from when the first of the most recent attacks took place you can read from my letter why sharx are coming closer to our fair shores. it is not the sharx problem but yours if you get a nip. its all called karma - which teaches us to be good in this life for our next lives.
as for the original comment on sharks, i have a similar theory in the south west of australia as nearly all our attacks were made when the new swell arrives (or just before) confirming my theory in my letter to the editor regarding why sharx are being pushed into the shore and can't find they food they normally would eat.
if you've lived and surft in indo you will understand that new and full moons brings swells...... its this beautiful natural (nature) environment we live in but all westerners are destructing....
MM, I've read some rubbish on this thread but yours takes the cake:
'if people are worried about sharx when they surf they shouldn't be in the water - particularly people like brett hardy in margaret river who thinks they should be culled.'
The majority of surfers are worried (to various degrees)about sharks and would like the threat of attack reduced. If you surf an area where attacks frequently occur (like Margarets), culling makes perfect sense.
We also have a very unspoilt marine environment (by international standards) hence the thriving shark population. I expect Indo has bugger-all attacks for the exact opposite reason.
MM, I've read some rubbish on this thread but yours takes the cake:
'if people are worried about sharx when they surf they shouldn't be in the water - particularly people like brett hardy in margaret river who thinks they should be culled.'
The majority of surfers are worried (to various degrees)about sharks and would like the threat of attack reduced. If you surf an area where attacks frequently occur (like Margarets), culling makes perfect sense.
We also have a very unspoilt marine environment (by international standards) hence the thriving shark population. I expect Indo has bugger-all attacks for the exact opposite reason.
wonder where you were with more great insight, if it scares you kill it!
For more than 5o years Aussie surfers have been surfing with sharks , and some of us are just not as terrified as you and your culling mates.
The threat will be reduced for you if you surf less, easy!
wonder where you were with more great insight, if it scares you kill it!
For more than 5o years Aussie surfers have been surfing with sharks , and some of us are just not as terrified as you and your culling mates.
The threat will be reduced for you if you surf less, easy!
Apologies MM, you've been surpassed in the fruit-loop stakes by our fearless sharkboy - no shark is big enough or hungry enough to put even a glimmer of trepidation into his ice cool persona. If only we trembling nancy boys were so lucky.
ah nancy boy Thween ,has a nice ring to it , and actually is a rather good description of people who , when confronted with one of natures apex predators , go hysterical with fear , and in a need for control , kill and cull nancy boys!
theween/sharkman,
Just want to confirm you two are grown men?
Once upon a time two people could have differing opinions without going to town on each other on an internet forum. If one doesn't agree, who cares?
Unless someone has hard evidence, proof or an in depth extended knowledge on the topic what right do you have to rip into someone elses view?
Not even a right.....I don't know how you could even be bothered.
So Dan, nice to see you have taken the time to ah, criticize Thween and myself , who have different views as a lot of people do here.
So you comment on us , how about commenting on the subject matter?
But I have commented on this thread in the past, a number of times? It interests me and I like seeing other people's views and hearing their ideas....but I really couldn't be assed now if it means that someone, like youself, may disagree with me and then get all personal and off topic. I come here for the shared knowledge, not the personal banter
Dan , but what do you think of the shark cullers , or as some of us are called shark huggers?
I'm anti-cull, not because I'm a shark hugger, I just don't see a benefit in killing sharks which are spotted in close to the shoreline when sharks are not on a leash. We've got a similar issue as Ballina now with juvenile white sharks down here (Forster).......DPI flew over everyday during the school holidays and every single day they confirmed a minimum of one white shark at Tuncurry Beach (via the Dorsal Shark FB page) with sometimes three sharks at any time. At least two of those days they sounded their horn and loud speaker to clear the water. We also had a listening station (destroyed in the June swells).
But back to my 'similar issue' comment above.......is it even an issue? So many people on the Dorsal FB page commenting "gee these sharks are really hanging around now"........hanging around more than the millions of years that they have already? One of the day's the DPI chopper cleared us from the water everybody stood on the shore thinking "now what"? And the chopper flew away and everyone just went back out......no attack. I can understand the chopper highlighting an imminent threat, but unless you're at the beach for the five minutes that the chopper is there then you know none the wiser and surf still anyway.....which leads me to question the $$$ spent on the aerial surveillance. Is the beach then closed until further notice, for an hour, the day, the week?
There's a real grey area as to what is expected next in my opinion.....but hey, they are just all my personal opinions
I think any reasonable person is asking the same questions DanK.
As far as the installation of the shark barrier is concerned it's been put on hold due to "heavy" swell.
Can't seen anything happening next week either.
They tried for 2 weeks in March under what was probably the smallest North Wall gets.
It's an incredibly high energy beach, especially during winter with it's exposure to S swells.
Their window of installation is supposed to finish mid-august. Can't see that happening.
Will be interesting to see the results when it has been deployed. So how exactly does the shark barrier work? Is it sea-floor to surface installation, and if so, how will it cope in heavy seas? I'm assuming to be effective it won't be located too far out off the sand banks of surf zones as generally most of the whites sighted are between shore and the breakers.
Dan , the shark barriers sound good , but I wonder does that mean that where there are barriers there would be masses of surfers like the goldy , trying to surf inside the barrier?
It will be interesting in the next few mths to see if the DPI will dig up that decomposing whale on the beach ,as they have now a policy of removing whales from the beaches and not burying them . Which is great when you consider that the whales numbers have radically increased from 100's of whales migrating north , to now more than 20K, which means a lot more whales carcasses , and more GWS's.
So it looks like a lot more sharks in the future , but when you consider the averages ,chances are minute in getting bitten by a GWS.
I suppose if you use the mindset of "swim between the flags" then it's a real possibility. People will feel comfortable knowing that the added protection is there, and sure it could get busy. It personally wouldn't make a difference to me, not because I'm some hero, but because Im comfortable making my own judgement call on when/where I surf and assessing the risk.
My main reason for this is purely based on the DPI aerial surveillance I mentioned above. I surf Tuncurry Beach all the time and have done for many years. The DPI flew over every day of the recent school holidays and spotted white(s) daily along that beach. Now the holidays are over, the DPI aren't spotting……….you'd have to be a little crazy in the head to think that just because a helicopter isn't there that the sharks aren't as well. You don't just go from having zero sightings before the holidays, to aerial sightings everyday, back to zero sightings at conclusion of holidays. For me thats enough evidence to suggest that if you put eyes in the sky all time, you're going to get a different outcome, and one that creates a negative hysteria.
there are always sharks around , and that's what the aerial surveilence does , proves we are and have always surfed with sharks. It's not about being a hero, but understanding there has always been and will always be a risk surfing in the ocean from sharks , you can even get hit in the head by your own or someone elses board , or die getting to the surf in a car accident , so we all live lives with risk , and for those who want zero risk in life , could join a monastery , or??
I think the negative hysteria is a very valid point , and all those aerial DPI flights are there to give a false sense of security and that our Govt;s are doing something!
how will it cope?
no one knows. They have to get it in first.
30/5 Catch and release Evans Head - 3.9 Mtr female GWS
2.7m white tagged and released North Wall the day they pulled the nets.
Official #SharkReport: NSW - NORTHERN NSW - BALLINA (LIGHTHOUSE BEACH). 12:58, 30 May 17, 2.7m, Great White, Tag and Release
Also white cruising off Sharpes this morning.
Official #SharkReport: NSW - NORTHERN NSW - SHARPES BEACH RECEIVER ‒ BALLINA. 07:06, 31 May 17, White, Receiver Tag.
Surely it must be getting harder and harder to keep putting forth the theory that white sharks are a threatened species .
ah threatened species , maybe surfers are?
In short my belief is that because the whales were late it created less feeding opportunities for the white shark at a key time for them, therefore a small amount of hungry sharks have been getting desperate and peaked up to feed on the full moon. This has resulted in more negative shark encounters in the Ballina region.
The good news is I don’t believe this will last. Stay safe people. //NICK BRENNAN
I think it's safe to take this theory down the back paddock now and put it out of it's misery.
Get the nets back in. If they happen to snag a whale then desnag.
Get data on the impact of the nets on the whales. One thing we do know, is that the nets are working on keeping the blokes in grey suits out.
Check this link (if you haven't already) - https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/sharks/management/smart-drumlines
My layman's obs (FWIW):
1. Smart Drumlines seem to be measurably more effective in capturing Whites
2. There's a shitload more Whites getting around the surfzone (or just behind) than Tigers and Bulls (the two other most recognised dangerous sharks)
3.The Whites really love near shore areas in the Ballina to Lennox stretch
4. There's a hell of a lot of Whites out there. Arguably a population imbalance?
5. They're still hanging around long after the whales have left town
And from the satellite tagging a bunch are moving north from summering around eastern vic.