Covid-19, Swellnet, and the way forward
To say that we’re in at time of unprecedented upheaval seems kinda irrelevant now.
I really wanted to avoid being yet another business making public statements about Covid-19. Over the last two weeks my inbox has filled with generic messages from almost every company I’ve ever transacted with, telling me to wash my hands and practise social distancing. You don’t need to hear that from me.
But my hand has been forced, because Swellnet is now in an unusual position where we’re receiving a deluge of feedback - through our website comments, email forms and social media channels - about how we should be running our business.
The problem is that everyone has a completely different view.
Some surfers have congratulated us for keeping the website live. Many people who access Swellnet don’t always have any intention of visiting the beach, but they like to stay connected to the ocean - albeit digitally - and so Swellnet is a small lifeline of sanity.
On the other hand, some surfers have pinpointed our surf reports, forecasts and surfcams as being the primary source for busy beachside carparks around the country. The odd thing about these claims are that most of the crowding issues seen in mainstream media are associated with beach-goers (not surfers) and in many cases have occurred at beaches without surf (i.e. St Kilda).
To help address the issue, we placed a notice atop our Surf Reports and Forecaster Notes. In capital letters, it states: “UNLESS YOU LIVE AT THE BEACH, PLEASE DON'T TRAVEL TO SURF”.
Included below was some reasoning: “Travelling to the surf now means you're putting an unnecessary strain on the resources of small regional communities. So, please stay home.”
We thought this was a useful surfer's translation of the government’s already-clear message, which is: “Stay At Home”.
Unfortunately, this has been misinterpreted by some as being a kind of ‘Locals Only’ enforcement. It’s nothing of the sort, it’s simply reiterating the fact that by travelling away from your home - whether that's one kilometre, ten kilometres, or one hundred kilometers - you risk unknowingly transporting Covid-19 to another suburb or region which doesn’t have the same resources as bigger cities.
The same principle applies if you were thinking about travelling inland for a spot of rock-climbing or fishing. Please stay at home. Just because you don't have symptoms, it doesn't mean you aren't infected. The government's advice is to act like you DO have Covid-19, and curtail any unnecessary activities and travel.
As for the suggestion that Swellnet should shut down its services indefinitely so as to stop surfers heading to the coast: it’s a futile strategy. Our subscriber number is very low relative to the amount of surfers around the country, and any surfer hell-bent on defying the advice and getting wet will simply look for another resource to provide the information they need.
Should we also ask the BOM to cease live weather feeds, and the various government departments to switch off wave buoys? How about other websites that provide surf and beach information?
And more importantly, at what point are services allowed to resume? We cannot underestimate how long Covid-19 is likely to influence our lives, and lifestyle. Current governmental advice suggests six months of significant disruption, some specialists suggest much longer.
Swellnet doesn’t have a communications department, nor do we employ PR strategists. We’re just another small family-owned business trying to plot a path forward, and hoping that we don’t have to close the doors like so many others have unfortunately been forced to do.
We’re very thankful for your ongoing support. And, we are also grateful for the opportunity to provide a platform for surfers to discuss this issue.
Comments
My exact thoughts too, i sometimes click on to memla just to view his profile....gggrrrrr!
Fuck the chinese govt
Fuck the traveling surfers
Does that make me racist two times??
Inzider it makes you something but I think it is best described as fed up.
Fuck greedy self centred people full stop !
Surfing is just a reflection of humans in general, when was the last time anyone here noticed someone of lesser ability local or not and made sure they got a wave and enjoyed the stoke of making someones day which one wave can do ?
I'll just leave this here. We are making 'mainstream' news now.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/is-surfing-allowed-under-coronav…
Hey Ben
Love the site, your approach etc
Since subscribing I’ve enjoyed being a part of the conversation as well - a lot
I’ll be keeping up my subscription regardless and have no doubt you and the SN team are doing what you think is best in difficult circumstances - none of the choices are easy for anyone
I think you should stop the forecasts, forecaster notes and cams, they do make surfing more accessible IMHO and will boost crowds when the surf is good
Also, the fact that other people will provide the service if you don’t doesn’t pass muster, if you can I would remove that kind of thinking when you balance the various risks of various options - especially at times like this, if we can all try and rise above and be exemplars I think the high tide lifts all ships and you can sleep with a clear conscience
Shame people misinterpreted the good intentions of your banner warning - maybe the wording could have been better but ...sometimes your dammed if you do dammed if you don’t - there’s a lot of faux outrage and virtue signalling
I’m surfing a lot less, almost not at all, it just doesn’t feel right to me at the moment... having read wambam’s post im thinking if it’s sensible for us to be reigning things in further - see how it all goes hey
Anyway
Thanks for providing this platform
I agree with this, please stop forecasts and cams. I'll keep my subscription.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/former-chinese-military-man-behind-expo…
Hmm .. same (only) story you have linked to multiple times before and still no real evidence of any busloads.
Council elections all over qld this weekend past and I've seen multiple news outlets broadcasting the same 11 seconds of footage of a pretty innocuous scuffle in Ipswich labelled a 'fight'.
Strange how this epidemic you have spent so long yelling about hasn't been captured by anyone anywhere in this big brown country, given that every racist and his dog has a video camera in their pocket.
Ben please remove the banner ad
The law says nothing of the sort and you are encouraging hysteria and a lot of aggro around the beaches where i live
Read the directions
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202003/Stay%2…
Keep up the good work swellnet, you're doing more good than bad
Thanks so much for staying open Swellnet!
I rely on your photos to keep my sanity in these times.
The live video feeds make me ‘mind surf’ when I can’t surf the ocean.
So thanks again-
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/coronavirus-nsw-live-upda…
for vic local
As far as the banner and travelling to surf, most surfers here live 5-10min drive, not exactly travelling.
If you remove the webcams, don't care about the report it's wrong mostly anyway and seems done from a a bedroom window, i want a refund on my yearly sub.
Ben can you please 'moderate' the swearing in these forums - it is completely unnecessary
Have you got a spare fucking week Ben to do this fucking crucial moderating during the shitshow crisis?
There seems to be a misconception that the people filling surf breaks are from the city or the suburbs. I think it's wonderful that people view their own break as a pristine wilderness that they, and no-one else discovered, but that is far from accurate. My family has been on the Surf Coast for 40-years and I can guarantee you numbers were different then, although we still felt the break was crowded.
Council greed allowed Torquay, Juc and other coastal towns to swell beyond capacity. Torquay is basically a suburb of Geelong these days... These 'swarms' or 'masses' people complain about are the new 'locals' and not necessarily people flooding in from the city. The same has occurred on the East Coast and the Island where massive suburban developments have occurred, and thousands of new 'locals' have appeared.
People need to accept this is the new norm, Covid-19 or not, otherwise move to a remote town in Gippsland where things are still like the 70's. Look around you, it's suburban sprawl, full of people like you who moved here to be near the ocean! If people complain to their local member that will force the Govt to close the beaches for EVERYONE, locals included. It's a time for compassion and patience not for localism.
Totally wrong re: 'council greed'. It's the fucking state government and the blame for Nth Torquay and Armstrong Swamp lies with that idiot Justin Madden and the corporate greed poster boy, Mathew Guy. (Both when planning ministers)
When council objects to further development via VCAT, big developers in shady backroom partnerships with big wig pollies will take it straight to supreme court in the knowledge council doesn't have the financial resources to contest at that level.
In reality, the Surfcoast Shire has about as much clout as a wet lettuce leaf.
Jason 100% agree.
Sick of loudmouth "local" bogans who think they are more "local" than everyone else and have some sort of special rights. They don't.
Anyway, we should hurry up and catch it already like Sweden is. Not worth trashing the economy, making a whole lotta people unemployed and eventually lose their house, a lifetime of near poverty and struggle for many is ahead...its just not worth it
I think this thread has localism confused with rascism.
They are different animals
50 crew in the water where I live last night..I recognized almost none of them so theyve driven here..if the surf is crowded dont paddle out..I paddled out in the dark this morning with 2 locals and paddled in after 3 or 4 waves..that will do
Ben, you need to ban Vic local, out of control.
I know, how dare I point to the racist BS that is flowing thick and fast on this site and call it out for what it is.
It's your foul mouthed comments, you wouldn't get away with it on any other forum. Pull your head in.
The truth is not racist give it a rest.
Are you saying you actually believe blowin's mad conspiracy theories, including the one I should be executed for treason? Wow, his mad posts (that are laced with bad language) are OK, but mine require a ban. Good luck sustaining that argument Robo.
Ben, the two of us need look no more,
We both found what we were looking for,
With a friend to call my own,
I'll never be alone, and you my friend will see,
You've got a friend in me.
They don't push, don't crowd
Congregate until they're much too loud
VL you must be pulling your hair out with all this sanctity.
Fair chance you're almost as bald as my wifes twat.
Hey Views, got any proof of that? Wheres your evidence?
Hey Stylemaster1970, I hope you don't want Views posting a photo of my allegedly bald head.
Nah Mate, I've got my own bald head to look at. Just haven't seen a nude spadge since I put the hair removal cream in my wifes moisturiser bottle back in '97. Long time between drinks!
Thanks for the clarification. That's a relief, I thought you might have been a sick pervert for the last five minutes.
Australia is in a very fortunate situation compared to the rest of the world. We have suburban sprawl. All we have to do is stay at home as much as practical. Unlike most other countries where you're literally sandwiched together with people. You really have to pinch yourself to realise how lucky you are to live here. If we were all in high density living, I think this would be really bad for us. A major problem we have in this country is selfishness, This has been borne out of my generation (baby boomers) & the freedoms they think they deserve. This attitude has then been passed on to the next generation. The generation before me did what they were told, but having said that gee I'll never forget the PE teacher jumping off a chair with a special nylon blade giving the poor 13 year old kid the cuts, etched in my mind. Mind you we all did what we were told after that, yes Sir Ree. Then again I do understand this was just brutality at its worst, create fear & gain control. Hey but we're in a free society so why should I. Put on the affro wigs, hippy toe thongs & dangle the hippy beads I'm cool now I can't be blamed. Looking at other countries the people adhere to the rules, I wonder why?
Margs carpark JAM PACKED today.
https://tenor.com/view/read-comments-michael-jackson-gif-10966818
Reckon a few crew might have reported into Quarantine this morning...
Anyone feeling like this right now?
(Apology in advance to VL who might perceive it as baseless, racist hate)
https://www.facebook.com/116020405159079/posts/2883865148374577/?vh=e&d…
That's fine ringmaster. Making up racist shit or sharing it is just not on though. You do realise 1/3 of racial vilification complaints in Australia are now COVID related. Australians from a Chinese background are getting, abused, spat on, and assaulted. That sort of crime starts with hate speech. That's why it needs to be called out.
if the shoe fits
CmonBruh. Health illiterate.
Read a book ... Or rather: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
Blowin. You'll be lapping this up. Get onto it. There is a story on ABC about dodgy PPE coming from China.
Cannot trust the CCP. They ran over their own people with tanks.
Is this where this thread has gotten to?
Unbelieevable......
Thred Started.... 29th of March 2020, that morning I was concerned about the coupla dozen grey nomads crewzing about Pembertown....
Ship had let loose passengers through Busso jetty..... (WSL canned???) Cases showing up now.
Adjusting to life shopping less often...
Sniffly nose... other co workers too.
Had it since the autumn evening cold starts. Happens every year without fail.
But 'my my my' corona !!!!
So far here good, touch wood. Agriculture in the south west is still operating and employing. Freight still moving.
But I fear an influx of city folk to the country over Easter will cause more harm than good.
It just will... surely??
So with all the media coverage in all forms, good and bad there is plenty of warnings and what to do's at this time. Ben Matson and crew have put up just the correct message for swellnetonians in my opinion.
I observe ..All country West Australians in my area asking each other...
'What happens when it comes our way?'
'What happens to us when they go back home leaving behind an outbreak'.
....we are already tip toeing. It is not here yet that we know of.
There aren't that many services or supplies around here.
Please don't travel for holiday. These ships and planes are the start and a warning (IMHO) Travellers and congregaters are the stamp and seal of this spread... seen those Trigg pics?
Please peoples... Be your own responsibility. Be your own responsibility towards others.
Stay safe. You know what to do and not what to do.
Footnote.. I have never seen more than a map and cams of east coast OZ. Looks busy.
Road blocks started today in WA. Now how will the masses reply ???
Poem;
I wait and wonder,
Fingers crossed with my toes.
Rewatching code red,
2011,
Those over throws.
Fuckin sharp reef.
I don't have a beef.
I'll let those fuckers,
Catch waves so fuck steep!!!
I'm good....
Link..
'These are.. Better Days' was a powerful moment for an impressionable young podrig, seeing those thicker than thick throws for the first time on video hammered home the (already too real) reality that pro surfing wasn't on the cards. High performance is any joe's wet dream but paddling into that is not something that gives many people comfort.
Cut to 2019 and Swellnet legends come through with tickets to the Nathan Fletcher doco 'Heavy Water' with the lead role in attendance for a Q&A..
Post screening he casually tells the story of how he was on the fence between surfing, skating, motocross etc and somehow he ended up at the end of the road in 98 and oh yeah just happened to win the thing. Paraphrasing... 'that was when I knew I could make a career out of surfing'. Some people are just wired different.
About 13 000 people die every month in Australia.Has this figure deviated due to the beer virus? Yes ? No.
So we get
-Empty supermarket shelves
-Sudden business closures
-Government paying workers' wages
-Dramatic curtailment of individual freedoms,with more to come.
How's everyone enjoying their taste of Socialism?The sad thing being that many applaud this.Be very careful what you wish for.
A foolish faith in "Authority " is the worst enemy of truth.
-Albert Einstein
Or is a foolish faith toward "authority" the worse enemy of truth?
So shall we decide.
Compounding the eight wonder of the world. "He who understands it, earns it. He who doesn't pays it." Albert Einstein
Has vic local/blue diamond now transitioned into a female monkier too, cunning but not original Jess... just ask de facto. Or is it just april fools day hijinks?
I get a feeling you might just indulge a little too much in the herb going by your paranoia.
P.S ABC radio report this afternoon on millions of dollars of "faulty " PPE being shipped to Australia from China at the moment, great swap, all the good stuff sent from here in jan in return for crappy Chinese crap. Faulty corona test kits (70% accuracy rate), faulty masks and respirators . Thanks China, great blokes all in all . Maybe send a box to Torquay or is it still Toocool or Torquil or Tooqueer as it was know by the surfers on the west coast of Vicco when I spent time down there. Just make sure vic local gets his pack, seems he has plenty of time on his hands for defending the Peoples Republic now (his) surf schools are closed for business.
Give it a rest Mike no one including VL is supporting or defending the actions of PPE or medical supplies going offshore to China or elsewhere.
The issue of racism arose when Blowin and others started screaming Chinese or Asians were stripping shelves of food and sending that offshore with zero evidence and that they were agents of China again with no evidence.
I mean are you all fucking stupid, you would go to a wholesaler and pay what 30% plus less and its all in the one place.
By the inference and causal labeling people like my opthamologist (ethnic Chinese) who is resigned to catching Corona as he his partner (has underlying health issues) but will still work on the front line saving people's eyesight unlike others sitting in their NSW's bolt hole and perhaps yourself doing SFA.
The asian community have given Australia a large cohort of health and medical professionals who unlike you and most others here are now risking their lives for our sake while now having to face abuse and possible violence because of fu(kwits.
My opthamologist is walking down the street and some redneck, maybe you decides he is an agent of China what then?
I Focus....please don’t conflate China with Asia.
The Chinese government is unapologetic in its assumption and determination that any and all Chinese people are eternally loyal to the motherland. This is not a supposition. This is publicly stated Chinese government doctrine.
If you’re friend isn’t loyal to the CCP then good for him , but don’t expect Australians won’t get upset when it’s revealed that other Chinese within our society aren’t as committed to Australia.
It’s unfortunate that he may be on the receiving end of insults , but the Australian nation as a whole is on the receiving end of assault from the Chinese nation as they alter our democracy and try to usurp our sovereignty.
Australians are extremely tolerant and issues of insult to innocent Australians of Chinese heritage is not to be accepted. The vast majority of Australians wouldn’t accept it and do not hold innocent Australians of Chinese heritage responsible for the actions of the Chinese nation and its agents within Australia.
It seems to me that you are victim blaming when you insult those who want Chinese expansionism named and shamed. Australians are the victims . We are not buying up Chinese land wholesale. We are not flooding their nation with our countrymen and then forming collective voices such as “ Chinese Australian associations “ to other ourselves from the mainstream and wield group power to steer political decisions in our favour.
There is no one claiming that Thai , Japanese , Indonesian, Korean or any other nations are predating on Australia. Combating Chinese nationalism’s incursion into our country is not racism it is objective recognition of a genuine threat.
More Chinese agents stripping food from our shelves?
Note the ethnic Chinese!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-02/nsw-healthcare-workers-leaving-f…
They are walking down the street and someone thanks to your casual labeling decides they are Chinese agents and needs to sort them out?
Is this unlikely?
So at the start of a deadly pandemic Australians are that well balanced that to prepare for a virus they rush out and hoard toilet paper.
Blowin I know as most here do in your heart you are no racists but your behavior and language is far beyond to pail.
Well , I Focus ....the reality is self evident.
Chinese are not being “ sorted out “ walking down the street. There might be the odd mouthy fuckwit on public transport but this is a very , very slight reaction to the very , very real imposition of Chinese government and Chinese cultural values into Australia.
The pushback shouldn’t be needed to be performed by the politically impotent man in the street. The pushback should be at the official level by our government. Alas , our government is too compromised to fulfill this role and so the anger is expressed at street level by those without the ability to seperate collective from individual.
Nothing I’m saying is racist. That’s the whole point of my argument. To push back against intrusive and malicious behaviour by a foreign culture driven by its evil government is not racist .....it’s the right thing to do.
To criticize a foreign or local government is not the problem as you well know.
You are a prolific, well written with a great turn of phrase and excellent contributor to this forum hence you know your way around the laugugue and what it means.
Your current defense is political ignoring the nuances that you well understand.
One of the problems with your commentary is that you have failed at every turn (until now sightly) to qualify your attacks against Chinese in general without the balance and recognition of Australians of Chinese or Asian descent (BTW rednecks can not tell the difference).
These very people are putting their lives at risk right now as we speak you have repeatedly failed to qualify your commentary to this fact.
You have repeatedly failed to recognise seperate how lucky we are to have those of Chinese and Asian descent giving Australia a group that contribute everyday to out health and safety thats racist.
In these times logic or thinking or giving is not a thing look around and you see every dog for themselves and it will get a lot more intense as we wait 12 to 18 months if we are very lucky for it to start to go away.
You don't have to look far into our very short history to find what happens when people like yourself start apportion blame to minorities when things get tough it's littered with dead bodies.
Go back and read your comments its not pretty.
+1
Australians of Chinese or Asian descent
rednecks
I think we have a language problem.
Australians of European descent
not a derogatory term
Thanks VL you got me there.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-chinese-ppe-border-f…
Get that angry troll off the website. Asshole ruins the fun for everyone else.
Why not contribute something yourself Johan. Sorry for ruining your fun internet surfing. There are plenty of sites with cats doing funny stuff out there or you could try surfline.com ,everybody is very nice to each other on that site - high 5 bro.
Also arsehole is the correct spelling, we are not Americans .
Offshore.. inland...
You cop a floater on your shoulder..
You are in too close.
So the racism continues on this site thanks to Mikehunt, blowin, et al, but robo stepped it up to the next level.
When I mentioned the rapid increase in hate crimes targeting people with a Chinese heritage, robo responded with "if the shoe fits."
So if some random Asian person gets spat on or punched in the street, that's fine with robo because "the shoe fits". Let robo's post sink in for a bit folks.
The lockdown has provided temporary safety for Asian-looking Australians, but there's a very big problem approaching: There's been a massive rise in online racism around this virus. It's ugly and very angry, and it's being egged on by scumbags like Hanson and Lambie. It's gone well beyond genuine and healthy discussion of China and the Chinese people.
When the lockdown restrictions are lifted, I can see people of Asian appearance being targeted by fuckwits who have been locked in their homes for months spending their time reading, creating, and spreading racist crap online.
Be very careful Australia,
"It didn't start with gas chambers"
" rapid increase in hate crimes targeting people with a Chinese heritage"
I hear this bandied around but it's nothing apart from one or two inbred halfwits muttering something on a bus or in the street.
Any solid proof beyond clickbait?
Andy M,
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-01/coronavirus-has-sparked-racist-a…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-27/childrens-hospital-staff-racial-…
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/this-is-racism-chinese-australians-say-they…
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/coronavirus-chinese-commu…
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/chinese-australians-say-fear…
Most states Human Rights commissions are calling for calm with with the current health crisis. They don't do that if it isn't needed and ..
By Michael Seccombe.
"It is understood that the Australian Human Rights Commission has experienced an increase in people contacting them about issues of racial discrimination since the coronavirus outbreak. Specifically, some 45 per cent of complaints accepted – that is preliminarily assessed as prima facie racism – since the start of this month related to discriminatory treatment of Chinese people in relation to coronavirus.
A significant proportion related to discrimination in the provision of services to people because of their ethnicity."
See, I back up my claims with evidence.
What you’re doing is not apportioning any global mistrust of Chinese people to those responsible for discarding that trust ....the Chinese government. This has left Chinese people as the face of the nation which has intentionally jeopardised the World’s health , stability and economy.
This is then reinforced by Chinese Australians working to undermine Australia’s ability to endure this storm by plu daring supplies for their motherland.
You want to blame the people who are jobless, in distress , fearful for themselves and their loved ones for reacting badly to being placed in such a position by shouting at the human face of the culture responsible ?
Sort your shit out. These people are victims of a foreign culture who places no respect on their welfare . If China gave a rat’s arse about the world it would have done what it could to halt the virus immediately instead of prevaricating in the hope of saving face.
Really , mate. I don’t care for or about your ridiculous claims of racism. The hour for such shrill apologists as yourself has passed. Deal with it.
You’re not Adam Goodes , you’re Tokyo Rose
"Today a patient made jokes about not shaking my hand because of #coronavirus. "
"Several Chinese-Australian friends shared their own experiences.
One recounted how a waiter had dumped change at his table before turning and quickly walking away.
Another, who wore a mask as a precaution at a shopping mall on Friday, had three teenagers tell her: "See you! Go and catch coronavirus.
Sydney man SK Zhan said since news of the epidemic broke, he has been getting stares on public transport".
You're fucking kidding VL, this is absolute nonsense.
We should probably call in the army to quell this outbreak of violence.
Evidence my arse, you're a sucker and a stooge, you're tabloid media's wet dream.
How many links do you want me to post AndyM? They are everywhere mate. I stopped at half a dozen, but could have kept going. I suspect no amount of links to stories about racial abuse and assaults would please you.
And you've cherry picked the most minor cases out of the links I posted to pretend the problem isn't widespread. That's very noble of you Andy. Have you are been marginalised, abused, or belittled due to your racial background? It's shithouse..
Racial abuse and assaults?
More like idiot attention seekers running to the press and posting on social media if they get *offended*.
I mean, pity the guy who gets looked at on public transport, or the fella who thought the waiter walked away too quickly.
You do realise you're buying into a calculated business model?
The outrage industry exists because of people like you.
That's pathetic Andy. I've posted multiple links to prove that c-19 connected racial abuse is widespread. I could keep posting links all day. You've cherry-picked the least serious incidents in the links in a pathetic attempt to prove the problem isn't that bad.
Let's just take the case of medical professionals with an Asian background. Our hospital system is filled with these heroes busting their backsides to protect their fellow Australians. Rednecks are refusing to let these doctors and nurses to treat them due to c-19 idiocy. What a fucking insult. You'd rather dismiss this racist shit than call it out for what it is. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Fu(k Andy I would never have picked you for taking that side of the argument, never.
I went back over those links to see if I'd missed anything, but it's pretty much just as I've said - a couple of fuckwits muttering stuff on public transport and in the supermarket and the rest is a total beat up, kicked off by Rhea Liang who got all bent out of shape because “Today a patient made jokes about not shaking my hand because of coronavirus."
And comments like this - "This is the first time I’ve ever felt physically unsafe in Australia because of my race".
Again, this comment is based on what?
It's just some bullshit throwaway comment with no foundation.
I focus, my side of the argument is that this black and white thinking where any perceived slight is immediately jumped on by the well-meaning but self-righteous, is simplistic bordering on juvenile.
For the record -
- it's quite clear that Chinese people in Australia at the behest of the Chinese government sent large quantities of medical supplies back to China.
- as far as I'm concerned there is no credible evidence that there's been organised and systematic stripping of supplies in supermarkets by Chinese people or anyone else.
- there's also no worthwhile evidence that there's been some uptick in verbal or physical abuse of Chinese people in the Australian community apart from the mutterings of random bogans.
So if "my side of the argument" means that you think I'm racist I Focus, well I don't think you're thinking clearly.
I just don't like rubbish, black and white conversations which are overwhelmed by emotion, whether it's about vaccinations, immigration, racism or whatever.
"Australians from a Chinese background are getting, abused, spat on, and assaulted."
And -
"When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence."
Indeed.
"- there's also no worthwhile evidence that there's been some uptick in verbal or physical abuse of Chinese people in the Australian community apart from the mutterings of random bogans."
Sorry, but that simply isn't true. There were numerous cases of ugly anti Chinese/Asian racism prior to lockdown. People have been charged. And the racial abuse is, like always, under-reported. Most victims just go home in silence. Luckily the lockdown has dampened down the face-to-face abuse, but it's simply gone online. Singer Dami Im is being mercilessly abused online. You'd have to wilfully ignorant not to notice the rise of anti-Chinese racism on social media. All sorts of fringe right wing nutter groups are out posting memes, creating Facebook pages, on recruitment drives, etc trying to capitalise on the crisis. They are Australian based. This is a problem. Unless this in nipped in the bud. This is where Australia is headed. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/covid-19-hate-crimes-asians-rise…
I'm re-posting this down the bottom, feel free to reply (or not).
Genuine question.
My housemate thinks it's ok to have his Byron Shire girlfriend stay over.
As far as I'm aware, this is illegal in NSW and is punishable with a fine.
I've never been a huge stickler for legalities, preferring to lean more towards being reasonable and using some judgement.
Question is, is it fair for me to tell her to get the fuck out?
I'm my elderly mum's only means of support/shopping etc.
My info is coming from ABC and genuine news sources,the fake PPE equipment is real (and what a cunts trick ) interviews with defense personal who are really worried about how China has behaved and is posturing are real too, not Alan jones ,The Bolt Report,The Sunday Times or the Guardian etc . Targeting of Asians is not on, wherever they are from but calling out the behavior of The Peoples Republic of China is not being racist (yes they are asian but China is a country, if the situation had been a Russian Virus this thread would be about Russians) and if you want to defend them thats up to you . Just because you dont agree with me doesnt mean I am wrong .
"Faulty corona test kits (70% accuracy rate), faulty masks and respirators . Thanks China, great blokes all in all" "The race that made the world sick" Those are your words mate.
Bit late to be claiming that your discussions aren't racist Mikehunt.
if the shoe fits 2
If the fact I used the word race instead of nation or country (in actual fact China is a country not a race) that has in fact (show me some info to the contrary please) mislead, lied and covered up this shit show and in fact now has made the world sick is all you have vic , good job, a typical well based argument from yourself. Perhaps think about contributing some useful information instead or fact based backing for your side of the argument rather than just a blanket " racism, everyones a racist (except me) blah blah , your all wrong, i am always right " would give you some credibility at least. If China sending us faulty medical supplies and tests when its a life and death situation is not a cunts trick please explain how so?
Its like debating a 10yr old.
I also hate surf schools too, does this make me racist as well?
When I see a lone individual (surf school operator taking over a whole beach) or individual nation (china) making profit or taking advantage while fucking over the rest of the general population (or world) due to their own dishonesty I think its fucked , hence my statements , of which I stand by
Andy M, totally fair mate, we're not supposed to be hanging with anyone really but people in our household.
Cheers Craig.
Edit - I'm starting to back peddle.
In the Ministerial Directions under "Reasonable excuses" for leaving your home, it states "providing care or assistance (including personal care) to a vulnerable person or providing emergency assistance"
This sounds nothing like going around to hang out with your girlfriend/boyfriend.
But NSW Police Commissioner Michael Fuller said that "visiting romantic partners" would be considered to fall under “care” as it supports mental health.
If that's the case, to me it would then be a big stretch to ban surfing outright at some stage.
A lot of confusion to these rules.
Because we are a fledgling totalitarian state, not yet fully indoctrinated in the ways of the coming dictatorship.
Vic local, would you like bat with that :)
So we're 500 + comments in and Blowin and his fellow travellers have started to come up with the "I'm not racist" schtick.
For days they been spreading bullshit rumours about Asian gangs raiding regional supermarkets in buses and have come up with zero evidence it's happened. They've been bringing up one mad conspiracy theory after another. Not sure which was my favourite, the one about Australia living under socialism due to the virus or me getting executed for treason. Maybe it was the one about the Chinese Commies plot to undermine Australia's food security? They've called Chinese people locusts, and robo even suggested that Chinese people who get vilified or assaulted deserve it because "the shoe fits". The crazy thing is, these guys are now trying to deny that they are racists. JUST OWN YOUR BIGOTRY FELLAS, NOBODY IS BUYING THAT "I'M NOT RACIST" CRAP.
Guy who can’t tell the difference between China and Asia telling people how racially sensitive he is.....classic.
And now he’s trying the “ I’m not a dumb fuck “ schtick.
VL the PPE shipping home has been real, and the consequences of that for your local health workers is real too (I've seen it). This was a planned and executed strategy, to your detriment (you might need these health workers).
No mate....pure conspiracy.
The same retired Chinese military officer was also shipping food as it said in the article I posted. That’s probably a conspiracy theory too.
Crazy !
Vic Local has something to do with Chinese tourists / interests with his business, yeah ?
VJ, I never said that shipping of medical supplies to China didn't occur. And yes it's a problem. But these products were sold in bulk by Australian suppliers. It takes two to tango.
Australia (like virtually every other nation on the planet) is now furiously trying to source PPE equipment from anywhere in the world. The trade is dodgy as fuck and to single out one country as the sole bad guy is just disingenuous. Go google search PPE equipment and look under shopping. There's also heaps of stuff that fails the hospital grade test which is ending up in Australian supermarkets. The Australian company that sold me staff uniforms a few years ago sends me daily emails about PPE "deals". It's shameless profiteering and quality is simply unknown.
During this crisis, corners are being cut (even by reputable companies) because speed is more important than quality. Ventilators in particular are being pumped out by companies that don't specialise in medical equipment. Factories are popping up or retooling overnight to meet the demand. It's happening everywhere.
My issue is, Blowin and his mates are either so stupid they think this problem is solely caused by China, or they are happy to overlook the dodgy stuff everyone else is doing.
Edit add on.
And to be perfectly honest, sourcing PPE is often a case of taking the least worst option during this crisis. Hospitals and governments would definitely be buying poor quality medical equipment because it's better than having no medical equipment. Not that you'll be getting any nuanced arguments from blowin and co. It's China = bad Aussie = good.
You are correct the suppliers are selling them. Some of it may not have been in bulk - I witnessed a couple come in specifically asking for masks around Oz day, thought they were CNY tourists, maybe it was part of a bigger operation? They were very insistent and the pharmacy near Woolies was fresh out. (And it freaked me right out then, as I'd come across the stuff getting out of Wuhan via proxies)
The very unique way Chinese companies have a special relationship with the CCP govt, and can be directed to special operations, does make them stand out in a world scrambling for musical chairs of good quality PPE. That our country didn't reserve all our quality PPE for domestic use, early on, is a tragedy. (Don't mention east coast natural gas...)
Now, work uniform errors, there's a subject close to the heart. The time the whole company got new uniforms, embroidered gold lettering, only they'd done the spelling of "safety" incorrectly! lol
Confirmation that Vic Local’ business is dependent on Chinese tourists / interests.
Talking his own book.
Wow blowin, you're talking even more shit than usual.
Your business life doesn’t deal directly with Chinese ?
not at all fool.
Lots of finger pointing. It's not really constructive. I believe the key to a sooner conclusion to this dilemma is every individual unit family, interest group, whatever, doing the right thing. If that happens progress occurs. BUT, that relies on everybody doing the right thing, and that is the flaw. I live in Newcastle and along the main 'surf drag' there - Bar Beach to Merewether, where there is a popular coastal walk. There is little to no social distancing, no one moves for anyone else, people take up most of the footpath with their walking groups, dog owners chat and use valuable space. The surf is still crowded. Few people, including the council seems to care. Do people not care? Are they selfish? Stupid?
At about 6pm last night I looked through the binos and couldn't believe my eyes, there were about 100 beginners surfing the 2 ft. close outs at Moana, and 30 crew at the trough and a cast of thousands from there to U-turns I have never seen anything like it. No social distancing here, wall to wall hipsters.
What a circus. A few hours earlier I had a few all to myself at Anzacs, crap wave but so glassy and nice to go for a paddle. There was also a pack of shall we say people of Asian appearance picking every snail and tiny crab off the low tide reef, where are the fisheries inspectors when you need them. Cheers.
i lived on the Mid 50 years ago when there was abalone on the low tide reefs and you couldnt eat enough fish and sea food....
but only what you needed and never under size
sustainability went out the door when the asians arrived ...
but you cant blame them thats how they were raised...
sad to hear that they are still fucking up whats left...
went to Gland years ago and they just fucking take anything that lives and going by past videos of it nothings changed.
Fisheries put there signs up on the mid years ago then went back to the office..
was at Coolum last year and families of Asians were out with the torches after dark catching all the poor little crabs on the beach.....
So sad .....
i feel like shit after this rant ......
well im looking forward to the now media hyped worst flu season ever even though theyve instigated the biggest shut down of the country ever...
ever get the feeling youve been cheated.
Bit off topic, but I've never had a flu shot but the missus has booked us in for Sat. on the premise that to get the flu and have a weakened immune system when you get the coronavirus could cause a few problems. But yeah you would think you wouldn't get the flu if you aren't going near anyone. Still better safe than fighting for life with a tube down your throat.
BTW the mid would be Just as packed with or without surf reports ,the word tends to get around.
Ever heard of Judy Mikovits
To blowin and all the crew who cried like babies when a Chinese businessmen shipped out PPE equipment from Australia, have a read of this.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/aussie-billionaires-massive-…
Twiggy has done exactly the same thing you got furious about. Any comments????
Sounds like a centralised agreement, before the purchase, fully letting the other government know of your purchase requirements.
So what that article is saying is that Twiggy Forest is buying b grade products that work 70% of the time (good on him-he can afford it) to protect Australians , from the country that basically lied and mislead the world about the virus in the first place and essentially gave it to us?
Bit like paying top dollar to the arsonist to come and put the fire out that he started in the first place.
Chinese businessmen buys PPE equipment in Australian, ships it to China, and it's a disgrace and part of some communist Party conspiracy. Australian businessman buys PPE equipment in China, ships it to Australian, and mikehunt says "Good on him".
Talk about one rule for the Aussie and a complete different rule for the Chinese bloke.
Turns out that, despite earlier denials, you don’t see the problem with the CCP plundering Australian supplies at all.
It literally was a CCP conspiracy.
conspiracy
/kənˈspɪrəsi/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
"a conspiracy to destroy the government"
Similar:
plot
scheme
stratagem
plan
machination
cabal
intrigue
palace intrigue
deception
ploy
trick
ruse
dodge
subterfuge
sharp practice
frame-up
fit-up
racket
put-up job
complot
covin
the action of plotting or conspiring
Fuvkwit.
I’ve officially got no time for apologist flogs like yourself. Off to a China then, mate.
I fuckin hate the word conspiracy!!!
Tickles peoples testicles to say it I guess.
It takes the masses to rise up against it but the few that witness evidence of global..
...lawless money, power, greed on display at the highest levels...
Get shot.
Closing borders with police and military check points gives me some peace of mind. Just in case. Like I had said earlier, there is so much, much more to this.
Peace.
you probably won't want to hear the conspiracy theory that the coronavirus affects the testicles then...
No thanks Velocity.
I'm good.
I've heard similar rumours, from trustworthyish (though sometimes prone to sensationalism) science communication outlets... watch this space I think. All the young asymptomatic or mild infectees might have a longer term problem to worry about...
Well then Mikehunt will be OK
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/
"National Review was founded in 1955 by William F. Buckley Jr. as a magazine of conservative opinion. The magazine has since defined the modern conservative movement and enjoys the broadest allegiance among American conservatives."
Credible.
Did Twiggy trigger a nationalistic government act which required every Australian expat to operate as a clandestine operative for their Australian motherland and covertly Aquire as much essential medical supplies as possible and transport it secretly back home ? All the while knowing of the impending health crisis about to descend and knowing that they’d be leaving their host nation unable to respond to the best of its ability ?
Or did he just buy some stuff from China ?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/be-very-very-careful-internal-messa…
Actually....I just read into Twiggy’s PPE from the CCP deal.
Classic corrupted behaviour by Twiggy the Chinese stooge. Spreading their soft power propaganda.
Hands up who will be surprised when Twiggy is leading the next charge for WA succession.....and straight into the waiting arms of China. It’s the billionaires you’ve got to watch. They think that they’re bigger than nations. They are the beating heart of globalisation. Unfortunately the CCP doesn't recognise you if you’re a barbarian . They might find you useable and treat you to a more comfortable form of subjugation. That’s about it.
Vic Local has a mail order bride I reckon.
More like a male order bride even perhaps? ha ha "Not that there is anything wrong with that" Here we go, conversations gone homophobic now! , lets see how fast vic can get back with some response to that, racist and against the alphabet people too damm you Mike Hunt!
FFS vic just admit you are wrong and now sounding more and more like an unhinged collaborator with every post (or at very best a Chinese bot).
Put you cards on the table and admit what your interest is in defending the Peoples Republic or throw you laptop out the window mate.
Twiggy is calling in his Chinese markers that he has made billions from now and in the past, easy when you are calling the cards.
Money talks.
Here is a really good read about how US conservatives are trying to spin the Coronavirus to protect their incompetent POTUS.
You might see some commonality on how the usual suspects are trying to do it here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/hannity-limbaugh-trump-c…
Dont think the issue here was ever denying the seriousness of this situation??
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/jail-for-people-sending-supp…
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/jail-for-chinese-profiteers-…
5 years jail for sending medical supplies to China
Thanks for the post VJ,
Just China? Presumably someone could still send PPE to Indonesia, the pacific islands or even the USA, reducing the stock in Australian, without any criminal sanction.
Surely if protecting the Australian public was the key consideration with these laws, they would apply to all nations. But hey, it just looks like Dutton is out dog whistling again. At least it distracts people from his complete incompetence in the handling of Covid 19
It’s not needed for other nations .
Only scumbag China dares to rob the world of its precious supplies.
You’ve completely dropped the pretence of being anything other than a China stooge / online troll now haven’t you ?
Really Blowin? There's a massive shortage of PPE equipment in Indonesian hospitals. You don't think some Indo expat in Australia or NGO might be tempted to send a box or two of masks to doctors over there. I reckon Dutton had the likes of you in mind when he announced his 5 years in jail policy just for China.
You’ve completely dropped the pretence of being anything other than a racist conspiracy theorist with zero commonsense now haven’t you ?
you really don't know how this works do you?
or...
The way forward, is forward.
Man, surfers are really stupid. Bye.
Good article Ben.
Extremely difficult times to navigate for any business.
Everyone's a pandemic expert now - experts everywhere with deep seated opinions to match...
When it comes to c-19 experts there are 4 basic categories,
1. real experts with medical backgrounds in the field of pandemics.
2. people who listen to the experts because they have commonsense (eg medical professionals, and people taking lockdown seriously and doing the right thing.)
3. people who ignore the experts because they are selfish arseholes
4. people who think they know more than the experts because they are basically dunning-kruger morons. eg Hanson.
Have a great day peeps.
Just got back from my morning walk and the crowd at Bird Rock is insane. There are 20 people sitting on a takeoff spot about the size of a kitchen and still more heading out. Everyone I saw in the carpark was late teens to 20s. The invincible crew. Very hard to blame Melbourne surfers for this idiocy as most of the crew I saw were locals. Meanwhile in Spain 1000 people died overnight again. Just fucking embarrassing.
Noticing the same on the MP. A lot of young local crew that you don’t regularly see around here roaming around in full cars. I’m assuming as all the bars and clubs are closed nobody is too hungover to surf anymore
20-30 age bracket looking like the 'super spreaders'
With any piece of legislation or change to rules you can expect 1 in 10 to be recalcitrant...
Bloody Zoomers!
Australian agents operating deep in enemy territory.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/dad-has-always-se…
Continuing to conflate Chinese government with the Australian ethnic Chinese community is pretty sad.
Seeing 25 plus on webcam here now in 1-2ft not even offshore, if surfers could just give it a miss if it's not any good would be helpful.
If you watch border control and see the crap food the Chinese try to smuggle in and lie about it on their documents, nothing surprises me with them.
And they are the ones that get caught.
Speaking of border control... How bout the cruiseship in the room.
Talk about govt cover-ups that have made things worse.
3 days ago, infections from passengers that walked off the Ruby Princess without being tested or quarantined accounted for 10% of Australian cases.
Jessiadams, this is one big reason why Dutton launched his largely meaningless 5 year jail term for PPE exporters to China. (It's not happening anymore because the crisis over there is well past the peak). This was one big distraction to hide the fact Dutton dropped the ball big time re Ruby Princess. Dutton only goes on 2GB because he doesn't want his incompetence highlighted by real journos.
A friend of mine was in that massive queue at the arrivals hall at Sydney airport. Incompetence by Border Force on a grand scale. Everyone tried to stick to the 1.5m recommendations but they were just corralled into an impossibly tight space where 1 person (1 fucking person) was taking temperatures. Asymptomatic people (all possible carriers) then just went on their merry way.
Yep, total blunder. Peewee Dutton got the covid too. Operation Border Patrol or whatever the hell looking like a total joke. Imagine if Ruby Princess was filled with refugees...
I hope your mate is safe and well.
Why are the lycra wearing fags still allowed to ride around Perth in pods of 5+ people
They're not! Call it in next time brotherrrrr
As an essential worker, I go to work In Freo, have come across 5 plus groups. Do you want photographic evidence....brother.
He says they’re not allowed, not that he doesn’t believe you.
Yeah man. I ain't questioning your observations.
Coppers in Melb patrol main rec bike routes. They probly do in Freo too, they'll get pinged sooner or later. Or you could give your local station a ring.
Just go for a surf....I cant believe you guys are still going on about this shit
I went back over those links to see if I'd missed anything, but it's pretty much just as I've said - a couple of fuckwits muttering stuff on public transport and in the supermarket and the rest is a total beat up, kicked off by Rhea Liang who got all bent out of shape because “Today a patient made jokes about not shaking my hand because of coronavirus."
And comments like this - "This is the first time I’ve ever felt physically unsafe in Australia because of my race".
Again, this comment is based on what?
It's just some bullshit throwaway comment with no foundation.
I focus, my side of the argument is that this black and white thinking where any perceived slight is immediately jumped on by the well-meaning but self-righteous, is simplistic bordering on juvenile.
For the record -
- it's quite clear that Chinese people in Australia at the behest of the Chinese government sent large quantities of medical supplies back to China.
- as far as I'm concerned there is no credible evidence that there's been organised and systematic stripping of supplies in supermarkets by Chinese people or anyone else.
- there's also no worthwhile evidence that there's been some uptick in verbal or physical abuse of Chinese people in the Australian community apart from the mutterings of random bogans.
So if "my side of the argument" means that you think I'm racist I Focus, well I don't think you're thinking clearly.
I just don't like rubbish, black and white conversations which are overwhelmed by emotion, whether it's about vaccinations, immigration, racism or whatever.
"Australians from a Chinese background are getting, abused, spat on, and assaulted."
And -
"When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence."
Indeed.
"And the racial abuse is, like always, under-reported. Most victims just go home in silence. Luckily the lockdown has dampened down the face-to-face abuse"
And you mock Blowin for writing similar stuff VL :)
Non-existent evidence.
And you're kidding me mate, we're talking about Australia and you go off talking about the U.S.?
Gimme a break, you claim that "Australians from a Chinese background are getting, abused, spat on, and assaulted" but the best that you can do is point at social media?
You're obviously trying to create something out of very little.
I see way more negative comments about van-lifers, including graffiti popping up locally.
I claim that racism in Australia is under-reported.
Andy M writes "And you mock Blowin for writing similar stuff VL :)
Non-existent evidence."
But of course there is evidence (not that any amount of evidence would ever convince you AndyM) Here it is for others on this forum. Copy and pasted from Victoria's Human Rights Commission report on the subject.
"Despite the broad scope of racist incidents raised with the Commission and documented in other studies, many people choose not to report their experience.
The most common reason given in our survey for making this choice was the prevailing view that nothing would be done about it. As one participant told us, “Generally, people think you’re being oversensitive and there’s no formal process that will yield any formal results”.6
Other obstacles to reporting include a lack
of knowledge about where and how to make
a complaint, a fear of victimisation or other repercussions about making a complaint, language barriers and a distrust of official institutions. For some, the limitations of the Victorian and Commonwealth legal systems to address vilification and prejudice-motivated crime can also be a significant barrier to taking action."
See I back my claims up AndyM. You like to pretend racism isn't much of a problem.
Vic,
The word racism does not exist in China, the CPP does not respect any human life as their human rights record demonstrates
I love it - racism is under-reported so therefore racism is definitely a problem.
No stats, no compelling stories, virtually nothing, your position is near-meaningless.
No, I can't say I'm worried about Chinese people being allegedly "abused, spat on, and assaulted" , there's almost no evidence of it unlike the mountains of evidence regarding the racism that is worth losing your shit over.
on a more positive note, looks like dog and cat is off the menu in some parts of china.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-03/shenzhen-bans-consumption-of-cat…
perhaps this will prompt further protection of not consuming other animals.
johnie,
Do you believe it?
Joke : There are only 2 things that Chinese don't eat........
With 4 legs it's a table
With 2 legs it's their parents.
Changing our ingrained behaviour takes time, and will vary whether its coming from within (e.g. own desire to change) or from external sources (e.g. CCP). Although, acknowledging that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) don’t really tolerate people swimming against the tide, perhaps this could be done. On the other hand, maybe this is just anecdotal news and we don’t really know the true accuracy of what will actually happen in China. However, hopefully, this is a step in the right direction.
I was taught a short acronym proverb from someone a lot smarter than me when I was a boy “AFL”. ‘A’ stands for accept what has happened (i.e. shit happens), ‘F’ stands for forgive those involved (i.e. we all make mistakes), ‘L’ stands for learn from your mistakes. Now, drawing from the last point, if this happens again (especially during our lifetime) we will need more jokes from you please…
Fortunately, we don’t have pumping swell at the moment, so lockdown is somewhat tolerable for me…
A wider ban on the wild animal trade would be excellent!
No fishing, camping, boating, golf for you vic local lol.
what a joke
Interesting debate going on here!
To make it a little more interesting one needs to take into account the following:-
During the Hong Kong riots, Chinese / Australians citizens siding with the Hong Kong protestors were staging their opposition to the Chinese Govt's (CPP) actions. Then the Chinese students/ residents, loyal to the CPP, starting confronting them and challenging their pursuit of a democratic Hong Kong.
The point here is that there are many Chinese people living in Australia loyal to the CPP and are REQUIRED to carry out instructions received from the CPP, otherwise nasty actions against relatives living in China can be carried out.
China holds incredible power over most Chinese people regardless of the country they live in.
Just sayin.
and the ignorance/cognitive dissonance of such things is astounding.... from some...
I don't kbow how any thinking person could watch that four corners special on the infiltration of our uni's and then continue to sprout the shit some do on here
maybe one for vl to still check out, ...maybe...
sypkan, I'm not blind to the shitty things China does. Their human rights record is atrocious, Go back and read my posts. They are about the shitty way some Australians are using the virus to whip up insane conspiracy theories and racism towards Chinese people.
you've gotta give up on this 'conspiracy' argument
it's real, happening before our very eyes for a decade or more
calling racism where there is little is enabling the beast. no conspiracy, just how shit is....
Go read The New Silk Roads by Peter Frankopan and get back to me when you learn a thing or two. It's a very rational discussion on the economic rise of China. The isolationist policies of the USA and a weak Europe have created a geo-political void that China has simply exploited. China's Belt and Road initiative is a blessing and curse for other countries as well as China. The economic fallout from this virus will have major ramifications for Chinese-funded infrastructure projects throughout the region. If China doesn't renegotiate payment terms, states will fail and loans will go unpaid. This book doesn't gloss over the human rights abuses of China, and it's written by a Professor of Global History from Oxford University. It's a little deeper dive than what you get from ACA. But hey, if you want to just have your opinions re-enforced, stick with something a little lighter.
"During the Hong Kong riots, Chinese / Australians citizens siding with the Hong Kong protestors were staging their opposition to the Chinese Govt's (CPP) actions. Then the Chinese students/ residents, loyal to the CPP, starting confronting them and challenging their pursuit of a democratic Hong Kong."
this is an interesting point from eceans...
I remember in the lead up to this corona craziness, 30 year aniversary of tianeman square massacre, followed by the hong kong protestors. all this taking place amongst a new looseness in narrative about a growth in chinese power/atrocities. the most telling thing from all the protestors of 30 years ago, and a new breed from hong kong, was their outright criticism of western governments for not making china more accountable
chinese people flat out criticising ccp, china's atrocities, and western governments role in facilitating them. way too much 'tolerance' whilst the peasant factory ticks away quietly it seems
....even for the 'asians'....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2OFHLSeLxlbGzt7FOq8P2SE9GJajLYKh
If you look at Sky News on YouTube and read the comments it is actually quite frightening the amount of racists comments on there.
Some things I agree with in this clip and some is complete crap but Credlin was someone who at one stage yielded incredible power and alot of the stuff went on during her beloved Tony's time in power.
A few problems in all of this is post this we will sadly be needing to be selling iron ore gas etc to major trade partners or else we will be more fucked
We are a population of 25 million
You want this to descend beyond a economic crisis into a miltary crisis against one of the largest miltary machines in the world. That's like throwing rocks while hoping we are standing behind the good old USA and they are there for us.
Maybe instead in this time of crisis we we say sorry Twiggy Bhp Rio Chevron gina etc there is a new royalty rate for 3 years
Share the pain and then can revert back
Dont forget Qatar earns 27 billion in royalties on the gas they sell versus 800 million for us for now the same amount or more we export
And one more thing hold back enough gas to supply our market so we have enough and dont as they are planning import gas because they forward sold it all leaving not enough for us.
A couple of things that seem to have been lost in some comments here is how fortunate we have been so far in this pandemic. It is easy to criticise the mistakes that have been made and miss the great work that has been done to minimise deaths and slow the rate of infection to a point that we can be optimistic about our health system’s capacity to cope. Compare this situation to the USA, UK, Spain, Italy etc etc. I think it was Norman Swan who commented that the deciding factor in our ability to get through this would be how strongly the community pulled together and followed the rules. Seems we are doing OK so far........
Well said Cromwell.
Last weekend we saw an influx of people traveling to beaches across the State of Victoria. Whilst a lot of these people weren’t surfers, on the coast where I live the overwhelming majority were surfers. This week surfers were still traveling up to 4 hours to my home town to surf without any guilt at all.
Because of my role in emergency services I had to work last Saturday and as I was driving home along the coast I saw surfer numbers that were equivalent to any peak holiday time I have seen.
Even though the act of surfing itself is suspected to be extremely low risk, it was the defiance of all the evidence and messaging that the safest thing for everyone, is to not travel unless absolutely necessary that disturbed me.
I live in a small community of 300 people, we all know each other and no one would want to be the source of contamination through their negligence of not adhering to the social distancing, hygiene and self-isolation narrative that we hear every day.
The biggest threat to my community is not our selves but others.
There are many advantages and disadvantages about living in small communities. One of the disadvantages is our health and emergency services are poorly resourced and often propped up by volunteers and a limited number of professionals. One of the advantages is as a small community we have a unique opportunity during this crisis to keep the people in our community especially our elderly free for this deadly virus. People traveling to and congregating here threatens that opportunity.
This is not some pseudo attempt to stop visiting surfers. I want this thing to end as much as anyone so I too can travel to other places and surf. However the main reason we all want this to end is so we can limit the number deaths and the social and economic destruction that we are witnessing.
As has been previously been stated on this website, this is not a localism issue it’s a public health issue. Please stay away from small rural communities for the time being.
well said
Well said indeed.
Surfers are selfish
A true surfer knows this, missing family functions , dates with the Mrs, work pretty much everything when the waves are pumping
But the dumb fuck idiots in Victoria have me dumbfounded at the moment,
If they fully shut it down and fucken lose my job because of self entitled wanna bes need to rip it up I hope the shit cutty they did was fucking worth it
Hear hear
Don’t change Swellnet
I’m sure you’d be stoked if you were popular enough to be causing crowded surf.
Strange how pumping surf and most of the nation working from home might correlate to crowded beaches.
(We) surfers are fucktards. This shit is bringing out the worst in our selfish locals only fucked surf culture.
Everyone seems to be dying to have surfing banned (pun intended)
Interesting read about the good old US of A
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/coronavirus-updates-new-york-rep…
Doesnt seem so different to what China was accused of and the labels thrown at them here
GreenCT. Exactly like I said was happening with PPE procurement.
Don't expect the usual suspects on this site to hold the USA to the same standards they demand from China. Wrong colour people doing the illegal stuff for that to happen.
For sure , GreenCT. Not a good look.
But the US didn’t inflict the virus on the world whilst simultaneously denying the world’s ability to react safely....that’s a gulf of difference.
And the US didn’t engage a their diaspora to act as double agents in a way that threatens the lives of their host country.
US buying from supplier , not secretly plundering stocks from other countries insitu supplies.
US isn’t lying about the severity of the infection to buy themselves time to deplete other nations of essential supplies.
Another point......Germany has lied about US activities in relation to Wuflu in order to gain domestic political capital before.
"Don't expect the usual suspects on this site to hold the USA to the same standards they demand from China."
5 minutes later, Blowin does exactly that, accompanied with a bunch of mad conspiracy theories.
Read the article again blowin. The Good old US of A re-routed PPE equipment en-route to Europe that had already been sold. Not only that, Trump tried to buy IP from a German vaccine company for US use only. How fucking disgraceful can that bloke get? You're very quick to point the finger at China for all their actions (real and imagined), and very quick to excuse the US government's genuinely shitty behaviour.
But hey, this has got nothing to do with your racism does it? *Where's the eye roll emoji? I need it right now.
Chinese still pilfering coles of baby formula last night, video evidence in todays Telegraph story.
You must be making a fortune vic local off your relo's.
Robo, I'm not going to defend the hoarding of baby formula by people with a Chinese heritage, but do you ever wonder why the baby formula story is on high rotation in the tabloids (ACA, 2GB, Daily telegraph etc)?
I live in one of the most un-Chinese places in Australia and our supermarkets and chemists were stripped bare. We even had a young chemist seriously assaulted by an angry customer who couldn't get what he wanted. Not that you'd find those stories in the tabloids. Wrong colour hoarders and thug. This is how it works mate. Anglo hoarders don't rate, stories of Chinese hoarders do.
A perfect example of this "Blame China" angle came from Alan Jones last month. Rather than blaming the actual hoarders (many of them would have been his listeners) for emptying supermarket shelves, he blamed (and I'm not shitting you) the Foreign Investment Review Board for allowing so much Chinese investment in Australia. It was some seriously twisted logic.
Pandering to the prejudices of audiences pays the bills for the tabloid media. It presents a very warped, and mean spirited view of the world to those who read the Daily Telegraph and tune in to ACA and 2GB. Not only that, this type of broadcasting does have consequences.
You in particular seem to see everything in the following terms. China / Evil and Australia / Pure as driven snow.
Typical vic local, assuming all us "racists" will jump on board and stand up for Trumps USA.
Like China the USA is a global arsefucker so any behavior such as in that link posted in not a surprise. In fact I seem to remember many forums and threads on what a fuckwit Trump is for years now which many of us racists have participated in .
Vic Local twisting facts to suit his argument once again.
PS careful Vic that article also included a mention of Orthodox Jewish Settlement being suppressed due to not following corona virus rules, dont start turning this anti semitic now.
Check out this crazy scenario.......WTF!
Looks like things are getting TOTALLY out of control within our new world dictatorship :(
where's that?
Playa Hermosa, Costa Rica.
Just looking at Manly surf and its packed with back packers washing out their hangover from their backpacker accomodation parties last night.
Constant loudspeakers along the beach saying follow the rules, exercise or surf quickly and if there are 500 plus people out (which there are) now don't paddle out and GO HOME. Simple message - now clearly required to be advised in more languages
Its not if, its a matter of when these crowds are going to see more beaches closed.
TBH eastcoastbuoy, most backpackers are really in an impossible situation.
It's not like there's many flights heading out of the country, and what few seats are available are way beyond budget. I've seen flights to Europe in the $10,000+ price range.
Backpackers have a massive problem isolating in cities, and they need to spend 2 weeks in isolation before heading out to the regions to do fruit picking. Most backpackers I've seen in Manly have pretty good English, and even if the warnings were translated, it's not like backpackers have too many viable options to socially isolate. Closing down hostels could be a frying pan into the fire situation. I'm sure there's plenty of Australian backpackers OS experiencing exactly the same situation. I just hope they are getting treated a little better than Australia is treating our international visitors. Having said that, backpackers who are travelling the country still in holiday mode really are dropping the ball.
Jeez....you do pump out some shit.
Show me where a backpacker can’t fly to ..... https://www.skyscanner.com.au/
WTF is a backpacker still doing in Australia ?
I was meant to be in Indo and I left a month early because of what was going down . Why can’t they do the same exactly ?
You really haven't been paying attention have you blowin.
Did you not notice most international airlines aren't flying anymore?
London would have to be the "easiest" destination to get to for a European backpacker. Cheapest flight is about $1500 one way via SFO and NY. There's massive question marks over the viability of that flight. Qatar airways is about the only regular flyer and their fares start at $2,000. That's a best case scenario. I have a friend trying to get back to England by changing the date on his existing flight. 7K. So assuming a humble backpacker has two grand and can get on a plane, he or she still has to Quarantine or self isolate on arrival. There's more $$$$$. And after 14 days, what exactly is the backpacker supposed to do? Go inspect flats and take out a lease while England is in lockdown? And that's a best case scenario. Imagine trying to get into Italy, Spain or France. And since you're demanding backpackers in Australia return home, surely the same applies for Australian backpackers in Europe. I reckon you wouldn't be too keen on having mick and Gazza who have been in Italy getting on a plane and coming back home. The problem is blowin, you don't think things through before posting.
Can’t post the screenshot for some reason but Skyscanner has 16 deals on a flight Sydney to London ( one stop Singapore) for $1191 on Tuesday.
Your friend has no excuses.
And that’s all I’m hearing.....excuses.
Australia has kindly asked you to respect our predicament and please leave. No one said it would be easy or cheap or wouldn’t require you to pull your thumb out of your arse but no one gives a fuck. They are on holidays and this is not a convenient time for us to indulge their whimsy.
The alternative is them sitting on taxpayers dime for 6 months or clogging up our health system just when we really need them to
Just
Fuck
Off.
You really are an idiot blowin. There's not 16 deals. There's 16 booking agents selling that flight.
I just looked it up and there's only 1 seat available. And then there's all the other problems at the other end of the flight.
You've shown your true colours with that last post. Angry, fuck off out of my country attitude, with zero commonsense and fair bit of bullshit thrown in for good measure.
No, mate.
I’m just proving that it’s very possible for your mate to fly to England and it’s no harder than normal travel.
Even if it was harder .....who gives a fuck ?
Our prime minister has asked them to leave. This is not their country. They are a guest.
Are you that much of a fuckwit that you’d be sitting in Indonesia as they enter into a national emergency when they need to focus every aspect of their society on dealing with a life or death situation , then the President of Indonesia requests all non - citizens to please leave as Indonesia doesn’t have the resources to look after themselves let alone anyone else in this trying time ....
And there’s Vic Local saying “ Wait a minute....I’m on holidays ! How dare you ask me to be sensible and respectful enough to realise that It’s not appropriate for me to continue my holiday ! I’m not going because :
A/ I don’t give a fuck about what Indonesia or Indonesians want....I want to stay .
B/ If I do go it may take a little bit of effort or maybe a few dollars more than normal....so instead I think I’ll just get Indonesian taxpayers to fund my holiday indefinitely. And if I get sick I’ll take an Indonesian’s hospital bed.
C/ I feel I’m entitled.
D/ Did I mention that Its not convenient and I don’t really want to so.....fuck you Indonesia ?
Australia has not asked for the sob story from a pommy backpacker who has wasted all their money on piss . Australia has asked them to respect our need to focus on ourselves and just fucking leave.
Our PM asking people to leave the country is completely irrelevant. There's tens of thousands of backpackers, and 1.6 million temporary visa holders in the country, and fuck all seats on planes. I can ask blowin to post an intelligent comment. It doesn't mean that can actually happen.
And then blowin posts about some ridiculous hypothetical situation about me being in Indonesia. Blowin you fool I'm in Australian and I can't be in Indonesia for the same reason many backpackers can't get home. Travel restrictions clown. Geez I hope the Australians stuck overseas are not running into the Italian / US / Peruvian / Sri Lankan version of blowin, a mean-spirited, narrow-minded fool.
Vast majority of visa holders are Chinese.
All they have to do is get to the airport , hop on a plane .....and fuck off.
I don’t give a fuck how harsh that sounds. I’ve had such a gutfull of yourself and others prioritising guests in our country over our citizens.
Every foreign visitor is a hapless victim to you. Temporary visa removed.....go home.
The analogy with yourself in Indonesia is exactly the same. You just don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s true.
Our PM asking people to leave is irrelevant.....WTF ? He is the voice of the Australian people. We are asking them to leave politely. The right thing for them to do is to leave. Not whine about how hard it is whilst Australia is fighting for its future.
"Vast majority of visa holders are Chinese."
Stop talking shit Blowin.
Huh ?
Of course they are. You really think the average temp visa holder is a friendly pommy pisshead with really bad teeth ?
Not sure why you’d resist that obvious truth ?
Go get me the official figures fool. If you can’t back this up everyone will know you’re a racist bullshit artist of the highest order.
And if I post the official figures it means you’re an apologist lying piece of shit......
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/davidcoleman/Pages/Coronavirus-and-…
Not including the hundreds of thousands of Chinese students.
That’s just a press release that doesn’t prove your claim the “vast majority” of temporary visa holders are from China. It’s not even close blowin. Keep googling mate. You’re not going to find anything to back up your lies. I will wait.
That’s just a press release that doesn’t prove your claim the “vast majority” of temporary visa holders are from China. It’s not even close blowin. Keep googling mate. You’re not going to find anything to back up your lies. I will wait.
Here's your actual evidence boys, let's see how you interpret it ...
In 2017-18, there were an average of 2.1 million temporary entrants in Australia in each of the four financial quarters.
Accounting for 11.5 percent of total temporary entrants, the PRC was the second largest source country in this visa category. This compares with:
- New Zealand: 31.2 percent;
- India: 9.2 percent;
- UK: 5.6 percent; and
- US: 2.2 percent.
In 2017-18, a total of 333,014 student visas (excluding secondary visas for dependents, etc.) were granted. With a share of 25.6 percent, the PRC was the largest source country in this visa category.
This compares with:
- India: 12.4 percent;
- Nepal: 6 percent;
- Brazil: 5.7 percent; and
- Colombia: 3.3 percent.
5.6 million visitor visas were granted in 2017-18. Visitor visas include tourism and business subclasses, which accounted for 5.1 million and 0.5 million grants respectively. The PRC was the largest source country for recipients of these visas, comprising 16.9 percent of the total.
This compares with:
- UK: 11.2 percent;
- US: 10 percent;
- Japan: 7 percent; and
- Malaysia: 5.9 percent.
Enjoy!
https://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/prc-migration-australia…
You said your pommy mate couldn’t leave cause there was no flights.
I proved this to be a lie.
You said that if there was flights they’d cost $10K.
I proved this to be a lie.
Face it. Your pommy mate is making excuses because they don’t have enough respect for Australians to just do as requested whilst we struggle with this virus.
Why would anyone feel any sympathy for such a selfish fuck who has no regard for the country they’re holidaying in ?
That’s why I don’t feel sorry for fuckwits like that. Tell your dickhead mate to get the funk out.
You get on Swellnet and police the government’s rules about your own area due to the virus whilst trying to generate excuses for other fuckers who won’t obey the government’s decisions made to get through the situation.
You are .....a cock.
You're just an angry racist fool blowin. There's approximately 1.6mil temporary via holders in Australia. 600,000 + from NZ. The vast majority aren't from China like blowin lied about just two minutes ago, but blowin wants them all gone.
Let's assume that a plane takes 300 at a time. That's 5334 planes to do the job.
Hey Blowin, can you see where your argument falls down?
Over 2.13 million temp visa holders.
Vast majority Chinese.
Fact.
Prove it liar.
See above fuckstik
There’s zero reference to where those visa holders are from. You can’t bullshit your way out of this. Where’s the evidence that the vast majority of temporary visa holders are from China? You made the claim. Back it up liar. I will wait.
Back to your corners boys...take a breath
+1
I do enjoy your repartee, gentlemen, but much more so when you're playing the ball.
Same here in WA. A nice day with small surf and people everywhere already. Surfing on its "last chance" with Shire and State regulations. The local Shire President has actually been pretty good and given local surfers a chance to prove they are not dumb cunts (which they are mostly looking at groups gathered already this morning at 7am as I drove out) . A tiny sign A4 sized has been put up at the local beach to warn everybody not to congregate (anybody who stumbles across said sign on their way down the stairs anyhow) . Pretty simple (but not simple enough) DON,T STAND AROUND PRE AND POST SURF CHATTING IN CARPARKS!! SURF AND LEAVE. Same idiots will all be crying and complaining once the ban is introduced.
The Herald Sun today on page #7 (who knows how reliable that is) has surfing listed as a banned activity in Victoria. If that is true, the Police will have the ability to fine you $20,000 for a breach.
I love going to the toilet in the morning and read the report, I hope I can enjoy that a little longer. Thanks.
It seems ‘Racist’ or ‘Racism’ is a common theme within this thread.
I don’t think my comment or tangentiality will derail this thread any further, yet I think this should be mentioned.
Maybe we think this is something new (i.e. racism), although, one should not forget the air that we breathe in Australia has been tainted with racism ever since colonisation. This is the sad reality of our inheritance. We might interpret some of the comments within this thread as prejudice towards china and we may have a strong yearning to protect them, which is great. Although, I just hope there is some consistency across all groups, especially towards the First Peoples of Australia. For example, how often do we correct our fellow peers who address the First Peoples of Australia as ‘abo’ or ‘aborigine’? Note the term aborigine is highly offensive, partly because our parliament’s definition restricted the First Peoples of Australia to vote, drink, or gain any benefits. How often do we NOT celebrate Australia day or advocate to change the date of Australia day? How often do we acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land which we are on before any presentation or meeting? How often do we get annoyed that we are the only commonwealth country that doesn’t have a treaty with their indigenous people. I could go on and on about this…
I don’t condone racism or prejudice whatsoever, what I will say though, if we are protecting other groups, we should also stand up for our fellow Aboriginal brothers and sisters. And, if this is already the case, then job well done and ignore my comment.
Are you aware that you just told us how offensive the term Aboriginal is and then said you want to stand up for your aboriginal brothers and sisters ?
Good pickup Blowin, yes, Aboriginal is accepted (i.e. Aboriginal Peoples), however, we should avoid using the term ‘aborigine’.
It can be quite confusing when dealing with the slight nuance in semantics, especially, when most of us did not receive much guidance at school, through no fault of our own.
It’s not confusing it’s nonsensical, ridiculous and arbitrary.
Thanks for that clarification johnie.
No worries Cromwell.
Yes, appropriate terminology would be ‘First Nations’, ‘First Nations of Australia’, ‘First Peoples of Australia’, ‘Aboriginal Peoples’, ‘Aboriginal &/or Torres Strait Islander Peoples’.
To provide further clarification on Aborigine, ‘Aborigine’ is considered offensive because an Act of Parliament placed many restrictions on the First Peoples of Australia when they defined Aborigine. For example, this Act prohibited them to drink alcohol, refused access to social service benefits, excluded them from the census, not allowed to vote or own property, could not develop a relationship with whites, forced to live where the government saw fit (i.e., camps, reserves), and the list goes on and on… As such, the word Aborigine has an unpleasant connotation associated with it.
Although, if we are unsure what is the correct terminology, one easy approach would be to “just ask”. That’s what I do.
"It’s not confusing it’s nonsensical, ridiculous and arbitrary."
its a bit confusing, because many fine upstanding aboriginal academics throw the word 'aborigine' around like it just don't matter...
hmmmmm...
but it certainly is nonsensical, ridiculous and arbitrary.
Vic Local.....the ceaseless fuckstik.
Literally everything you’ve claimed this afternoon has been proven untrue. From the impossibility of visa holders returning home , the price of flights , the number of visa holders , the amount of Chinese visa holders amongst others.
Everything you’ve said is untrue. I prove you wrong so you just move on to the next fraudulent claim......what the fuck is that about ?
You're just embarrassing yourself now.
You said the vast majority of temporary visa holders were from China. I flat out called you a liar. You could blow me out of the water if you could back that claim up. Do it if you can.
I will wait.
Repost for better formatting:
Merry Christmas Blowin / Vic, don't say I did not give you anything.
Here's your actual evidence boys, let's see how you interpret it ...
In 2017-18, there were an average of 2.1 million temporary entrants in Australia in each of the four financial quarters.
Accounting for 11.5 percent of total temporary entrants, the PRC was the second largest source country in this visa category. This compares with:
- New Zealand: 31.2 percent;
- India: 9.2 percent;
- UK: 5.6 percent; and
- US: 2.2 percent.
In 2017-18, a total of 333,014 student visas (excluding secondary visas for dependents, etc.) were granted. With a share of 25.6 percent, the PRC was the largest source country in this visa category.
This compares with:
- India: 12.4 percent;
- Nepal: 6 percent;
- Brazil: 5.7 percent; and
- Colombia: 3.3 percent.
5.6 million visitor visas were granted in 2017-18. Visitor visas include tourism and business subclasses, which accounted for 5.1 million and 0.5 million grants respectively. The PRC was the largest source country for recipients of these visas, comprising 16.9 percent of the total.
This compares with:
- UK: 11.2 percent;
- US: 10 percent;
- Japan: 7 percent; and
- Malaysia: 5.9 percent.
Enjoy!
https://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/prc-migration-australia-...
If it helps...
Temporary entrants
In 2017-18, there were an average of 2.1 million temporary entrants in Australia in each of the four financial quarters.[8] Temporary entrants include (but are not limited to) visitor visa holders, student visa holders and temporary resident (skilled) visa holders. The Temporary (Work) Skilled visa (subclass 457) was abolished and replaced by the Temporary Skill Shortage visa (subclass 482) from March 18 2018.[9]
Accounting for 11.5 percent of total temporary entrants, the PRC was the second largest source country in this visa category. This compares with:[10]
- New Zealand: 31.2 percent;
- India: 9.2 percent;
- UK: 5.6 percent; and
- US: 2.2 percent.
Note: Including the PRC these are the top five source countries for temporary entrants in Australia in 2017-18.
The average number of temporary visa holders from the PRC has consistently increased over the last five years, from an average of 132,901 in 2013-14 to an average of 245,662 in 2017-18.
Student visa grants
In 2017-18, a total of 333,014 student visas (excluding secondary visas for dependents, etc.) were granted. With a share of 25.6 percent, the PRC was the largest source country in this visa category. This represents a nine percent increase in absolute terms from 2016-17.
This compares with:[11]
- India: 12.4 percent;
- Nepal: 6 percent;
- Brazil: 5.7 percent; and
- Colombia: 3.3 percent.
Note: Including the PRC these are the top five source countries for Australian student visa grants in 2017-18.
https://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/prc-migration-australia…
Same info, same link, almost exactly the same time ... seems the information was not so difficult to find.
We only want to help ... right?!
The post-truth thing can go and get rooted.
So the figure was 11.5% in 2018 and things haven't changed much if not at all. I knew that all along, just wanted to see if Blowin was a big enough man to admit he got it hopelessly wrong. He isn't.
A/ NZ is virtually part of Australia. We are virtually part of NZ.
New Zealand does not count in discussions regarding foreign visa holders as they are our cousins and this is recognised by both nations.
B/ Having said that .....2/3 of NZ SCV are non - NZ born. This means they are using NZ as a transit lounge to Australia. The majority of these 2/3 are from China.....fact.
C/ Those figures are 2 years old. Chinese figures have increased significantly since then.
The government has asked temporary visa holders to stay and work in critical areas such as health care, aged care and agriculture. Backpackers who have run out of money are being asked to return home. Why it should matter where they come from, I don’t know.
Whilst we are discussing the poor victimised Chinese and how shameful it is that a handful of Chinese citizens should be subjected to offensive staring on public transport by Australians, let’s cast our memories back to when China purposely infected the world with Wuflu :
They purposefully infected Indonesia ( From The Australian )
“Beijing is seemingly displeased with Jakarta’s decision to impose a travel ban to and from China amid its efforts to prevent a deadly coronavirus from spreading to the archipelago, with a Chinese envoy saying that such a ban could harm Indonesia’s tourism and economy.
The travel ban, which is to be in effect from 12 a.m. on Wednesday, would prevent people who have stayed more than two weeks in China to visit or transit in the country. Indonesia is to also suspend visa-free and visa-on-arrival provisions for Chinese nationals.
Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian asked Indonesia to follow the advice of the World Health Organization, which — despite having declared a global emergency over the deadly coronavirus — is not recommending countries restrict travel or trade with China.“
And while Chinese were suffering the unimaginable horrors of waitstaff serving them last in Australia ( on a single anecdotal occasion) , let’s see how many people have been infected , fucked up and killed by the virus they purposefully spread around the globe....( current rates )
And when countries tried to stop the virus from entering Australia by closing borders with China .....China fumed. Consider what you know now about the virus. Vic a Local KNOWS that the only way to protect his area is to close the borders where possible. China knew this too. So when other nations tried to close their borders here’s how they reacted :
“Beijing is growing increasingly angry at countries imposing harsh travel restrictions on visitors from China as the world tries to contain the spread of a deadly coronavirus.
Authorities have registered “strong objections” with countries who have cut flights to China during the outbreak, foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said Thursday. She said countries were ignoring recommendations from the World Health Organization and International Civil Aviation Organization, which have advised against canceling flight routes and limiting travel to affected nations.
China Lashes Out at Countries Restricting Travel Over Virus
“We deplore and oppose those countries who went against WHO’s professional recommendations and ICAO’s bulletins,” Hua said. “Their actions, which sowed panic among the public, will not help prevent and control the epidemic. They have gravely disrupted normal personnel exchanges, international cooperation, and order of the international market for air transportation.”
Her comments are some of China’s harshest words yet for countries including the U.S., Australia and Singapore, which are barring non-resident visitors from mainland China, restricting flights and canceling already-issued visas“
And when the Chinese students were told they couldn’t come to Australia , China went distraught for the weaponised claims of racism. As per usual.
“Asian Australian Alliance national convener Erin Chew told the South China Morning Post the ban was an over-reaction from the Government.
"In many ways it feels like it is a form of racial targeting," she said.
"When previous viruses happened such as mad cow disease or the swine flu, Australia didn't ban non-citizens from Britain and the US. Nor was the blame placed on the people in (those countries).
"Since the coronavirus outbreak it has been coined that this virus is the fault of Chinese people, not just in mainland China, but really all over the world."
Does this mean that Vic Local is racially targeting people from Melbourne with his local border closure .....of course not.
But the Chinese will never hesitate to use racism to shut down debate. Because the CCP are evil fuckers and every time someone like Vic Local tries to call someone racist for “ othering “ the Chinese after the Chinese have done as much effort to “ other “ themselves as humanely possible, then he is just another CCP China stooge.
My understanding is that currently China is providing significant assistance to Indonesia to control the epidemic, which would be irrational if they deliberately started it. Do you have any evidence that the pandemic was started deliberately by China? This would be a crime comparable to the holocaust if true.
Mate , China knew how bad the virus was. They were experiencing exactly what Italy/ Spain / France / USA are undergoing right now . But still the Chinese diplomats were threatening other countries who tried to protect themselves by closing borders.
China has now closed its own borders.
China purposefully tried to infect the rest of the world so that China alone would not be weakened by the virus. They wanted the entire world diseased so that China would be on a level playing field. This is undeniable.
China is now attempting to rewrite history and is simultaneously giving highly publicised aid to other nations as a means to gain soft power.
China didn’t care if millions of people died. So far 60,000 people have been killed by the Chinese virus. Thousands more are chronically and critically ill.
"They wanted the entire world diseased so that China would be on a level playing field. This is undeniable."
- Obvious troll is obvious.
I think that is a No. It really is very unhelpful to make such serious allegations without significant supporting evidence. At a time when we need global cooperation such unsubstantiated divisive comments can only do harm.
Cromwell ...
"China is providing significant assistance to Indonesia to control the epidemic, which would be irrational if they deliberately started it"
- It's called 'negging', all the cool kids are doing it.
Cromwell. Everyone knows the Chinese deliberately infected the rest of the world so they could then come in a be the saviour. It's part of their grand plan for world domination. I think they are in cahoots with the mullahs from Iran, Prince Philip, and the WWF. I'm also pretty sure the Rothchild's and George Soros have got something to do with this as well. (just haven't got the evidence of that yet). Give me a few minutes while I google it.
Who needs the Olympics anyway?
U.S.A., U.S.A. ...
Nobody is buying the crap you're peddling blowin. You lied. You couldn't back up your claims and when the figures were posted by other commenters, you tried to shift the goal posts, by claiming NZ doesn't count. Really pathetic.
I will even entertain your BS argument for shits and giggles. Even taking NZ out of the equation, the percentage of Chinese people on temporary visas in Australia goes up to 17%.
Help me out Blowin, is 17% a vast majority? Actually don't answer that because I'm sure you'll find a way to say it is rather than admit you bullshitted.
China was so desperate to transmit its virus that it intoned the Holocaust in an attempt to guilt Israel into keeping the border open.....you can’t make this shit up.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/asia-and-australia/.premium-chinese-…
One thing that is interesting to me, and not a comment either way on your message or you posting this link, is how old news from early February is. Usually this would be considered recent, when we were kids this would be cutting edge news, but in current climate it is outdated and irrelevant.
Again, not irrelevant to your point in fact quite the opposite, just that it is no loner pertinent to the reality of the situation at hand.
But.....a Chinese person getting stink eye on a train ( allegedly) or a Chinese student who backdated our border closure and is now asked to return home is the REAL victim here.....FFS.
So I will take that as a No abut evidence. It seems incredibly irresponsible to make such unfounded allegations during a crisis when it is so important that we work together as a community regardless of our visa status or ethnic origins.
So we can’t say Aborigine now we have to say Aboriginal. I’ve heard it all now!
At least they are trying lol. Scum.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-03/shenzhen-bans-consumption-of-cat…
Why does Australia need foreign backpackers to stay here and pick fruit/produce/farms when we currently have massive unemployment in Australia?
Seaslug
There is mixed reports in the media on this and I cant get a straight answer
I even started a thread on this in the forum but got no response.
Some reports in the media saying farmers inundated with enquires from backpackers.
Them I think on ACA farmers worried about lack of workforce to take in crops.
So fucked if I know what's true but no point forcing backpackers home and then whinging later as supermarket shelves empty because no one to harvest.
Because agriculture is largely seasonal. Making it difficult for local workers and producers alike.
A farm may require a hand full of workers most of the year then harvest time require hundreds for short harvest window.
Harvesting is hard repetitive work and often in my experience most local Australians just don't want to do that type work.
As a harvester, work maybe nearby for a few months. Then finding more work may require traveling to another region for another crops harvest. In between a month with little to no work. A good farm will try to hold on to good working locals. When they are found.
Good luck getting a home or car loan.
Remigogo
The rational of allowing different visas to be issued was Australians didnt want this work and farmers faced a shortage.
In this changed world the media is producing mixed messages about if there is a shortage or not.
If there is a huge number of Australians happy to fill the gap this year no problem otherwise calling for the temporary Visa holders to be sent home now will create another problem in supply chains and then food shortages.
Peraonally not wanting to make a career out of it but would take it on versus an extended lockdown where I find myself
Green CT I was reading your post when farm jobs came up as the topic on ABC news digital. An apple and cherry grower near Sydney not hiring backpackers coming from Sydney. The pictures or reports of young folk partying in hostels and wherever has raised concerns so there becomes an issue. Quarantining 14 days between regions another. Accommodation around small towns normally an issue is now made more problematic with accommodation shut downs.
Regarding visa holders. I am on a farm needing 200+ who are shortly due to return home to the Pacific as our season is coming to an end. Scomo spoke of extending some visa's which would leave us with a prediciment. If they go as planned apon completing 6 months we can get them back as experienced workers next season. If they stay extended, which would require placement, then they won't be allowed back needing us to find replacement inexperienced crew next season. Also these labour hire companies that supply overseas workers will also be thrown out of whack some regarding seasonal timeframes.
Confusion in reporting in my opinion may be attributed to lack of or confusion of information from different sectors each with there own issues. The situation is complicated for all and continually evolving.
Our farm now is seeing a decline of fresh produce orders as people are purchasing less. Meaning at some stage produce will end up in the cow paddock so to speak if declines continue to fall too far.
I have tried to clear up some things but I don't feel I have much. Employment rate is increasing more each day. From personaI experience when unemployment rate is over 10 % job prospects are slim if one is a non professional or tradie.
I just wondering what Ben thinks after starting this thread,
Hahaha Ben where did it all go so pear shape, or was it a plan to reduce the heat about ca............ nah that would as bad as accusing Chinese..........hang on better not :-).
Was going to reply to Andy but its so far back totally lost my train of thought except for the following.
I guess a good test of what has been said would be a healthcare professional of Asian background knocking of work after running the gauntlet of catching Corona and stumbling on this thread.
Andy do you really think they would think "these people really have my back"?
Have you ever read an autobiography from a prominent Australia of Asian background and not see some reference to them having trouble finding their Australian identity?
Wonder why? Read back through this thread.
I remember you mentioning some thing about black and white and vivid memories flooded back from my trade union days that blurring the lines was a tactic used against us defending the line.
You have to operate in black and white so you separate good from bad.
Typical ultra right tactics are to take a bad instance and then transport that to smear the many.......a bit like what's happening all be it more subtle.
I don't know maybe something like this
There is a Chinese company buying up and sending medical goods and PPE to back
China.
These people are Chinese nationals
These people are Chinese national agents
Chinese people are stripping food from shopping centres
Chinese people stripping food of shelves and sending it home
Chinese agents are stripping shelves and sending it to China.
Chinese people are bad
Now we have walked back to baby formula appears WTF and visas
I do know when you stand up the kitchen sink along with every insult / abuse gets hurled at you, strangely those guilty miss the point that's clearly indicative of behavior that leads to racism.
I normally wouldn't bother but these are not normal times in fact this is just the start of a likely depression far deeper than 1930.
It's going to get a lot harder and there will be no big bounce back to normal, normal as we know it has gone for ever the new normal may well take 20 years or more to get to whatever it is.
To get through this as already pointed out we will need to work hard together sitting around in safety bolt hole at home pointing fingers that will achieve SFA or at worse create negative sentiment to groups undeserving instead of actively working to bring communities together.
On a positive note nice to see a Coalition Government going full socialist and from the right wing deadly silence, who would have thought?
Vic Local and the others on the right side of the argument love your work.
A couple of thoughts on this spectacular morning I Focus.
WRT your example of the healthcare worker of *Asian appearance*.
Why wouldn't they think they've got the support of the community?
I'll say it again, where is the groundswell of public sentiment that is aggressively anti-Asian?
So far, apart from minor stuff that's been beaten up in the press and a single isolated incident with no context from the other side of the world, there's virtually nothing.
"Typical ultra right tactics are to take a bad instance and then transport that to smear the many"
Own goal there I Focus, dunno about ultra right but it's certainly regressive.
And who's suggested anything resembling your weird little logical progression there, where shit actions by China means that all Chinese people are bad?
Not even worth talking about.
Look, if you can't see that negative influence on Australia is worth pointing out, whether it's China buying up land and resources, the U.S. applying political pressure (and worse) to keep us in line, corporate control of governments, record levels of immigration, etc etc then I don't know what else to say.
And if you want to say that pointing these things out is necessarily racist, then I think your level of comprehension is pretty poor.
When the comment rubber hits the road..
https://globalnews.ca/news/6769462/asian-family-attacked-coronavirus-ha…
It is a always uncomfortable to talk about personal vs collective responsibility but the elephant in the room is a pretty simple one when it all boils down..
Hate speech leads to hate action.
The irrational generalisations and willfully ignorant accusations that get thrown around on forums like this are not without their real world fallout.
Thanks for that Podrig . Perfect timing.
It ties in beautifully with I Focus’ comment above :
“Typical ultra right tactics are to take a bad instance and then transport that to smear the many.......a bit like what's happening all be it more subtle.”
Just like Vic Local using a tiny handful of anecdotal micro aggressions as evidence of the evil underbelly of racism threatening Chinese Australians , you have scoured the globe and found a single ( unconfirmed) instance from a world of 7.6 billion people and located 12000kms from Australia and used this as evidence of the supposed looming threat of hate crimes.
A more irresponsible and unrepresentative leverage of a single news item is hard to imagine.
It is indisputable that China has enveloped the world in its tentacles with a desire to further subjugate sovereign nations such as Australia. They use accusations of racism as a cloak to dampen discussion of their mission and to quell any insight into their plans. Discussion of China’s strategic imperialism is no more hate speech than a 1939 condemnation of Hitler’s plans to invade France.
I Focus has asked about the Chinese Australian health worker reading these comments and how we can have this conversation with regards to their feelings.
I ask you , I Focus exactly how we cannot have this conversation. When there is Pro Chinese students shutting down debate on Australian Universities, Australian senators* openly parroting Chinese propaganda , Australian media outlets being threatened to toe the line for Beijing and organised gangs of Chinese thugs intimidating Falon Gung practioners in our community it’s obvious that the uncomfortable truth is that there is Chinese within Australia who believe that China deserves primacy in our Southern Hemisphere.
This is the discussion we need to have.
Our politicians are mostly bought by China and will not have this conversation . Our media is mostly bought by China and will not have this conversation. Private industry, academia and opinion makers are mostly bought by China and will not have this conversation.
And when the conversation does sprout in forums such as this there is always someone who has swallowed the line that to criticise China , Chinese influence in Australia and the fact that there are Chinese within Australia who have no love of our sovereignty . The people who have swallowed this line then refuse to accept any discussion on the incorrect pretext that it is racist to talk about this subject and that innocent Chinese Australians may face the remote possibility of a harsh stare on public transport as a result.
This unlikely, lowest common denominator must not be used to derail the enlightenment of Australians to just how compromised their country has been by the Chinese Communist Party and their agents within our borders.
Any innocent Chinese Australians will be familiar with the nefarious methods used by their former dictator Government and should realise that when Australians are being threatened they will be unhappy. It is a very , very small price to pay if the odd harsh word is suffered by those innocent Chinese who seek refuge in Australia for the Australian community to be vigilant to the CCP threat.
The Chinese Australians are not victims. We Australians have offered them succour and opportunity within our home . They must understand that to confront the communist party they fled will require Australians to be alert to the monster and that unfortunately their contribution to the fight may be the odd inappropriate stare on public transport.
We all have our part to play.
The part that I Focus and Vic Local can play is to not quash this debate with disproportionate and inappropriate statements on the issues facing those Chinese Australians who have been lucky enough to be taken in by the Australian people.
*https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/you-must-be-a-potential-leader-labo…
Mate you have repeatedly leveraged a story about a business buying wholesale supplies and conflated it with 'busloads of Chinese ravaging country towns'. Now you want to try and claim the moral high ground and raise the level of debate which you started in the racist gutter.
Getting stabbed, spit on, beaten or worse is not just a bit of side eye. It is the very definition of privilege that you get to have 'a conversation' while they get knifed in the street.
Also it takes a pretty intense level of cognitive dissonance to criticise another countries human rights record when you look at the history and current state of indigenous affairs in this country.
I didn’t conflate anything. Both of those incidents happened. Just because Vic Local doesn’t want to believe it happened doesn’t mean it’s a lie.
I haven’t been in the racist gutter at any stage. I’ve been discussing the same issue the entire time and it’s not once veered towards racism.
Stabbed , spit on , beaten....and worse !!!!! Is exactly the bullshit misinformation that needs to be eradicated. Find me the Chinese in Australia who have been stabbed , beaten and worse .....or pull your head in. Actually find me the chronic incidence of these things which would begin to justify your fallacious claims.
And cognitive dissonance....FFS. I’ve built houses for blackfellas in 45 degree heat whilst living in a portable donga in the desert . WTF have you done to alter the current circumstance of Australian blackfellas ? Australia is doing everything possible to protect remote indigenous communities from this virus. Compare that to China’s attempts to infect all of us whether we are black , white or purple with pink stripes and you’ll soon recognise how cheap and belaboured you’re false equivalence between our nations actually is.
Seems like you’re just piling onto the issue without thinking. Whether that’s through lack of ability or through lack of due consideration I’m not sure.
You have repeatedly posted links to one story as evidence of the other, that is the definition of conflation.
Blowin what are your solutions to this.
As I posted elsewhere how would you feel if a first nation person said to you that we didnt want you here.
You brought diseases that wiped many of us out. Have destroyed so much of our native forests, fisheries, sacred sites and the list goes on.
Somehow in your land ownership system we didnt get included in that process and have had to fight to be recognised firstly as humans then actually get some land of our own.
So kindly can you fuck off where your ancestors came from ! How does that make you feel Blowin ?
I dont support or condone the behaviour of the chinese government but why are you not raising your voice about Yemen or Iran or the plundering of African nations for so long by white skinned people.
The starting point for me is while we try and move to a more sustainable approach to living is
- reset royalties on gas, iron ore and other commodities so we all benefit from this trade.
- change the rules on foreign ownership of major businesses so if any foreign entity wants to buy in they partner with our soverign wealth fund 50/50 and they fund it.
At a personal level
Pay a bit more and buy local
Pick up some rubbish
Plant some trees and grow some food
Be nicer to each other including giving a wave to someone not at your ability. If they mess it up no big deal, just smile and offer some advice.
You realise that we are on the same side , don’t you ?
“ My “ culture and “ Your” culture are now irredeemably intertwined and it was “ your “ culture which paid the price.
China wants to do to us what the English did to the First Nations. Surely you are able to see that another layer of imperial cultural imposition isn’t going to improve your lot.
That’s all I’m saying. I don’t hate Chinese people. There is no racism . I just don’t want them usurping OUR* land and imposing their culture on us. The Chinese have a homeland which they defend to the death. They do not allow unfettered immigration by non Chinese. They do not allow ownership of any part of China by non Chinese. They would never permit Non Chinese interference in Chinese politics .....yet they call racist if Australians should dare declare that enough is enough and that whilst we appreciate China , we do not want Australia to be overwhelmed and subjugated by China .
Learn from the past and you won’t be forced to repeat the mistakes.
* You and me= Our Australian culture.
PS....totally agree with the oil, gas etc. As a matter of fact , I totally agree with everything you say and I’ve been repeating that ad nauseam on here for ages.
“Our politicians are mostly bought by China........”. This is another extremely, serious allegation that undermines community spirit at the height of a crisis and again without any evidence. This is simply appalling, indefensible behaviour. Sounds like you have been listening to some of the RWNJs on the radio.
You’re kidding, right ?
Not sure where you’ve been hiding Cromwell , but that’s a bit of an accepted fact.
Undermines community spirit.....FFS. Your slack- jawed defence of our mercenary political class is the type of behaviour which dismisses community spirit.
Go do some research and educate yourself. Why not start with the most obvious....try Andrew Robb and Port Darwin. Or maybe even Peter Dutton’s private meetings in Chinese restaurants with Chinese Billionaires at the billionaires bequest . He is the second most powerful politician in Australia after all.
Then look into our Prime Minister’s defence of the indefensible Gladys Liu . Another perfect misuse of the racism accusation employed to silence critics....by the head of our nation no less.
CCP front organisations donations to both parties.....NSW ALP is a beauty !
Silent Invasion by Clive Hamilton.
And go from there. Get back to me in a year when you’ve gotten past the tip of the iceberg in seedy revelations.
The word “most” means a majority. You have identified four instances of concern, none of which have been found to be in breach of the law. This is a tiny minority of politicians. It may surprise you to learn that it is not uncommon for politicians to meet influential people from a variety of countries. That private discussions should occur is a cause for concern. If you used less aggressive language, fewer insults and based your arguments on the facts rather than wild exaggeration, people might actually listen.
Have to back up VL re flights available on websites vs reality.
Currently on a small island a long way from Oz and getting flights back is complicated, unconfirmed and expensive.
Air traffic flies right over us and from the normal 80 odd per day Im lucky to count 4.
Still the beach curfew has been lifted after 2 weeks and theres some real nice waves to be had ;-)
Not here back packing either but wonder how long we can sit this out?
Any chance of a surf report or photos?
More interesting than the shit going on this page.
Good morning vic local.
100 out of 400 in Victoria police checked on that we’re supposed to be in self isolation we’re not home.
Think you have bigger problem than surfers lol.
Blowin just for clarification I am a desendent of the boat people like you not from our first nation people.
But with this virus that was exactly what our ancestors did when we arrived.
Also our way of life currently is destroying this beautiful country. Do some research on how much of our native forests we have destroyed.
Our pathway to destruction was set long before the Chinese turned their eyes to Australias resources.
They think we are stupid at how fast we want to dig up, chop down etc and sell what are limited resources.
They think in much longer terms than us.
The answer though is not in hate language but taking this opportunity to reset some rules.
ie when things return to some form of normal making sure some of that money we earn in foreign student education is funnelled back into means tested subsidising of our young peoples training and further study.
More investment in meaningful job creation strategies.
Spot on GreenCT.
This World system has been buckling under immense pressure for decades now.
Oceans full of plastic and raped of sealife, Deforestation which went beyond reversing the loss decades ago, the treatment of animals and hunting or destroying their environment to their extinction, river systems destroyed by agriculture or factory waste run off or overseas visitors pissed in the river with Giardia and you can't even drink the river water anymore (NZ for example) and the list goes on.
But the saddest fact is how we treat each other and thats exactly why we face the issues we do today. Its a me me me society and whatever I wanna do, when I wanna do it is the what majority of the society we live in do.
You would have thought with this COVID-19 issue it would have been a great opportunity for many to "soften" there approach or attitude to how they treat each other due to taking a step back and appreciating the "small things" in life that have been taken away. But no. Me Me Me just help themselves just like the greedy world that has raped and pillaged for centuries and now the economic worked is on its knees.
As the Cree Indian Chief said:-
Only when the last tree has died
And the last river (Ocean) has been poisoned
And the last fish has been caught
Will we realise we cannot eat money
Ladies and Gentlemen we are pretty close to that now.
It is time to pause and reset.
The rule books have been thrown out the window for economics, health, freedom and a list as long as your arm the last few weeks.
Just a few weeks to have the economic World on its knees.
The World (MOTHER NATURE) demanded a change because Governments and people worldwide are too Me Me Me.
Manly Beach has just been closed to everyone. Me Me Me didn't follow the simple rules now everyone pays the price.
P.S. Suggestion: tone down some of the harsh language for the ladies and the children that read these forums guys. Might be ok for you down at your local with your crew but not on a public forum with a variety of ages, gender and backgrounds reading. Just a suggestion.
Cheers Robo,
Isolating the body is ok but isolating the mind is the real challenge.
Have considered wtihdrawing from internet ...but..its...just...not...possible AAARRRRGGGGH
Wow. The virulent naysayers versus the touchee feelee apologists. Like religious arguments we've heard it all before. Doesn't go anywhere. No point to it. Do the right thing. Look after your love ones and yourself. Grow up. And, by the way, here in Newcastle crowds in the surf are bigger than ever - streets are actually closing because of excess traffic/parking issues. Well done boys and girls.
"And if you want to say that pointing these things out is necessarily racist, then I think your level of comprehension is pretty poor."
Jeezzas, your kidding.........right.
BTW its cloudy no swell and the samon are just starting to run White hugging season due to start. Had a lovey 4m plus breach locally the other week.
Anyone can criticize the PRC government as much as they like I doubt that they will truly cover the horrors of the regime but why is it so hard to separate between locals and foreign governments?
And above apparently its OK if the locals are collateral damage some being more equal than others sort of in your face.
That's not discriminatory?
Because some of the locals - and I’m sure the greater percentage of temporary visa holders -hold the CCP closer to their hearts than they do Australia.
How you seperate the friendly locals from that group is the vexing question.
But the discussion regarding the less friendly arrivals can’t be unsaid for fear of offending those Chinese Australians who want nothing more than to be considered Australians full stop.
Now is the time for this discussion. The virus has forced the revelation of an issue that many vested interests have wanted to remain hidden. That of the nefarious incursion of CCP and Chinese interests into Australia.
With the economy now basically fucked , the main driver for keeping this discussion hidden has been swept aside. Only a month ago the urging to not upset the economic Apple cart was enough to allow the cockroaches to go about their business unhindered.
Those days are over. So when we can finally talk about the China problem without the racism straw man being brought forth every time we may start to make headway towards a solution.
I personally think there’s a US instigated Anti - China PsyOps program unfolding in the very recent times. A lot of officially sanctioned Anti China rhetoric getting around. This is not a bad thing in itself but the change in tact by the media / political class in the Western sphere is ominous.
The response of China to the virus was based on the fact that it is a totalitarian state and the person you cannot afford to be in those circumstances is the bearer of bad news. In every totalitarian state from the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and right back to Tudor England, it has been the same. The local officials try to hide the problem until it cannot be denied. This is what happened with SARs in China, Chernobyl in the Soviet Union, the German defeat at Stalingrad etc etc etc. The notion that an international tribunal will make China pay is interesting but probably unrealistic for the reason that as the world economy recovers, it will depend on China to lead in growth. Nowhere is this more true than in Australia. For Australia to get into a serious disagreement with China is not, for the foreseeable future, in our own interests. Rights and wrongs can be debated but political and economic realities determine the course of nations. The economic reality is that the rest of the world needs China far more than China needs the rest of the world.
No one is going to sue the CCP . It’s not about a lawsuit.
It’s a broadcast signal that the CCP can’t slither away into the shadows, that they are not invulnerable and that people aren’t afraid to confront them head on.
It reveals their omnipotence as a charade.
This message is intended for international and Chinese domestic consumption.
Like I said , something is afoot here. It seems to be a coindinated attack on the CCP from multiple fronts. The language is unapologetic and forthright where a few short days ago it was hedged and masked , if anything was said at all.
Good news for pegging back the arrogance of CCP , bad news for the prospects of world peace.
Chinese government potentially liable for $6.5 Trillion lawsuit
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/china-should-be-sued-for-6-5-trilli…
Back in the 70's China did give us Bruce Lee and Nunchucks.
Swings and roundabouts.
Actually Bruce Lee was born in America and raised in Hong Kong, a British colony at the time and not ruled by China. (was ruled by Japan for a few years at the start of his life there). Also he died in 1973.
Nunchucks are also Japanese and not Chinese, so not that either.
They're not the Romans.
Also, after typing the above I realise that you were baiting and I took the hook ... well played sir. I leave my reply in tact for you to gloat upon.
I Focus, are you saying I'm racist for pointing out "China buying up land and resources, the U.S. applying political pressure (and worse) to keep us in line, corporate control of governments, record levels of immigration"
I must be misunderstanding you.
"why is it so hard to separate between locals and foreign governments?"
Because in the case of sending tonnes of medical goods back to China, they're directly related of course.
And there’s also the fact of locals not acting in our interests.
Not everyone in the equation is the friendly nurse with a heart of gold.
"Chinese government potentially liable for $6.5 Trillion lawsuit
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/china-should-be-sued-for-6-5-trillio.."
seems to be a certain change in 'narrative' happening...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/03/30/the-coronavirus-is-be…
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-…
https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-u-s-intelligence-tells-trump-th…
Keep it up fellas I'll try and support you for as long as i can.
No takeaway coffee or beers at the pub have allowed me to keep you guys onboard.
At this stage the normalcy of reporting and the cams are helping keeping me positive.
The other side may be aways away but atleast you guys help me see it.
One thing’s for certain: The concept of the wet market needs a re-think.
"I personally think there’s a US instigated Anti - China PsyOps program unfolding in the very recent times. A lot of officially sanctioned Anti China rhetoric getting around. This is not a bad thing in itself but the change in tact by the media / political class in the Western sphere is ominous."
yep, ominous indeed
It started just after all that war talk a few weeks ago. a distinct turn in rhetoric as they realised they'd fallen for a data deceprion
only the horror of italy spain france, and europe generally would reveal the true scale of the problem
...and data...
the war talk wasn't that ominous initially ....not until macron joined in that is...
"I Focus, are you saying I'm racist for pointing out "China buying up land and resources, the U.S. applying political pressure (and worse) to keep us in line, corporate control of governments, record levels of immigration"
Nope, don't remember calling you racist I said you were on the wrong side of the conversation and that I was, well shocked.
"I must be misunderstanding you."
I would say so.
"why is it so hard to separate between locals and foreign governments?"
"Because in the case of sending tonnes of medical goods back to China, they're directly related of course."
Here's the problem, Chinese backed development companies operating in Australia buy and send back goods to China, I would think it's a management decision not an employees unless they are running the company eh.
Discussed here as not as a humanitarian gesture but a betrayal of Australia correct.
Let's stick with that position so are you saying that it's only the Australian Chinese employees are at fault and that the Australian Caucasian employees are not?
They are a decent size and employ lots of white fellas are they not complicit?
Doesn't this take us back to finding something bad and smearing only the minority?
Wouldn't the mature conversation just stop at what the company's actions are / were and senior management, making clear boundaries avoiding unsaturated claims about employees or the population in general etc?
I am horrified at this thread maybe you guys have no contact with Asians I don't know, my own GP is an old guy ethic Chinese one of the few doctors in the area that deals with the down and outs with genuine care a quiet hero of our community I would feel deeply ashamed if he was to read this thread seriously.
Also while I am at it accusing anyone that disagrees as PRC government simpathsers of a abhorrent regime responsible of incarceration, leadership finding opponents guilty of corruption and executing them the undermining of sovereign nations etc thats before you get to Australia's security agencies continued writings as a small slice is pretty immature and frankly disingenuous not aiming at you BTW.
All including VL have made that clear.
Bullshit.
Your doctor would probably understand. He left China for a reason.
Isnt it enough that senior management are complicit in enacting CCP dictates to plunder Australia ? How many seditious people do you need to begin to care ? They are living as guests of Australian hospitality just as much as anyone else.
As for the other employees ( senior management are employees) , I didn’t see any Caucasian Australians in the photos posing proudly next to the medical items Australians are now clamouring for ....did you ?
I’d say that’s because if Australians were aware of what was going down then the shit would have hit the fan earlier. There was an eventual whistleblower so people were aware that it was inappropriate behaviour.
Sounds like you’ve got an Chinese mate who you like , so you think the entire concept of Chinese influence and suspect Chinese operators in Australia doesn’t exist.
That’s patently ridiculous.
I Focus I'm horrified at parts of this thread too, for the life of me I don't understand how you can be ok with a Chinese government-backed company ordering its employees to gather up 70-odd tonnes of medical equipment and freight it back to China.
"The Greenland Group reportedly confirmed the shipment of medical supplies in January and February, saying it “felt compelled ... to assist in efforts to mitigate the spread of the virus, which had caused a shortage of crucial medical supplies in China”."
And Australia can go get fucked, right?
"are you saying that it's only the Australian Chinese employees are at fault and that the Australian Caucasian employees are not?"
You're clutching at straws.
Mate considering that it's a government-backed company, and the photos show Chinese people and there are workers holding up signs written in Chinese (?) I'd say the chances of Caucasian people being directly involved (as opposed to be generally employed somewhere along the line) are on the slim side.
Regardless, anyone who was involved is out of line, black, white or brindle.
The Australian Medical Association thinks so, and although it's not something I want to present, so does Peter Dutton.
Forget about Dutton, is the AMA on the wrong side of the conversation?
And let me be clear, I'd really like you to answer the above question so I'll repeat it - is the AMA wrong, are they on the wrong side of the conversation?
"Maybe I have no contact with Asians?"
What a pathetic card to play.
Juvenile.
I Focus I can only assume you're not trolling but I think your approach on this issue is all over the place.
I really don't get it.
Xi stated all former citizens must owe first loyalty to the homeland and by inference the ccp. Not what most spread around the world would agree with as they seek a new life but that is the mindset of the dear leaders. From that world view much flows at all levels seen, unseen, real and imagined, past and future. Even many in his party feel he has overreached in concept and action in many ways and a blowback is emerging as too much has become too obvious.
And in surfing-related news, I can confirm that the water police were doing spot counts/checks of surfers at Torquay mid-arvo today. They were on land today, and I saw them on jet skis earlier in the week.
I asked them about any rumblings to ban surfing and they were pretty plain that as long as social distancing was happening it was all good. They did give me the impression that Level 4 lockdown might not be far away, though.
I heard Winky had 60 out earlier today, which is absolutely stupid at the moment and the sort of dumbfuckery that will get surfing banned.
If the police were doing spot checks mid-morning surfing would be banned for sure. It's fucking nuts down here and I'm going to point the finger at the younger surfers. 20 groms on Bird Rock the other day, and most paddled out at once. It's like they are calling each other saying let's go surfing.
On my morning walk today the carparks were full again and there were shit loads on P Plates on cars. My son went for a run and said there were only 3 people at Sparrows. I took the dog for a walk 20 minutes later and there were 25. Who the fuck surfs in groups at the best of times? Time for the cops to set up a couple of check points on Torquay and Anglesea road and turn around the cars with boards. And the local groms need to pull their heads in big time too.
Surfrider Foundation just posted: "This morning there were 70 surfers in the water at Winki and 43 surfers at Bells."
What a complete shit show. Even on the best days, winki is crazy at 40 people. 73. Seventy fucking three and the surf was poo. Just ban surfing now.
Jealous some? Too old to surf?
Absurd. A mate got up for the early and there were 30 in the water at first light.
I agree that the powers that be will figure that the stupidity is just too high and feel their hand is forced - something really has to change or I cannot see how we'll be surfing over Easter.
The entertainment on this forum is endless as one poster many years ago stated your carrying on lot a bunch of CWA Ladies at a jam making competition
Great article on The SMH on Saturday about how the habits/mindset of people after the great depression regarding debt/lifestyles will be revisited after the great reset that will occur after this. Get your own subscription support Journalism
Ifocus"I just wondering what Ben thinks after starting this thread, "
Ben should be in politics the Sheeple have forgotten the original problem and created there own. Or the problem never existed in the first place.
Green CT "As I posted elsewhere how would you feel if a first nation person said to you that we didnt want you here."
It was directed at Blowin but this shit is pure racism.
Green are you saying that everyone in this country, who does not "identify" as an first nation person should leave.
How would I feel, that the person asking the question was a frelling nutjob and I need to leave there presence.
Mate My kids and I are Australian so is every other person who has been granted citizenship. People on Visas are not. Planes are still available on Skyscanner the taxpayer does not need to sort them out.
Someone on the threads mentioned the skyscanner flights availability, which made me check Stayz over the Easter period in my local area 149 properties booked out over the Easter week.
Obviously the below has not got through to people from Major cities
"People should avoid non-essential travel within NSW and remain at their primary place of residence. Travel planned or booked for the Easter school holidays should be cancelled or postponed."
"People must stay at home unless they are going to work or school, shopping for food and essentials, getting medical care or supplies, and exercising. You may only leave home with a reasonable excuse – details can be found here. Penalties are in place for breaching these public health orders."
My Local area has been busier than usual (holiday numbers in the lineup) for the last 10 days Sure there is the recent people who have been offered external development opportunities from there current positions and the lost Families who are trying out the beach instead of a weekend of structured team sport for Jim & Betty (they really did not look comfortable) The 18-20's group lost without a hangover or a pub/coffee shop to spend their time taking selfies who have decided to explore their world
Majority are not local, Lots of OS Travelers lots of QLD number plates, Lots of expensive cars and Easter Holidays has not even hit.
Watch the next spike in Covid 19 after Easter in regional areas, the government has had plenty of time to plan for this it will be another failure to chalk up.
It may have eluded you but people on visas have every right to be here and those on temporary visas have been asked to stay. Similarly you may have neglected to consider that many Australians are in similar situations in other countries. We would hope they will receive more gracious treatment than you seem to be proposing for those here.
What are you saying here Cromwell? Is this situation a bit more nuanced than foreigners out - Aussie good? Who knew?
Yep, it’s a bit more nuanced.
The overreach of globalisation has been cut. The temporary worker farce has come to an end. The tertiary education residency scam has been cut. The perennial backpacker who never leaves....its over.
Catch ya’s.
You're talking shit again Blowin. Temporary workers are still largely welcome in Australia, and overstaying backpackers aren't getting rounded up and deported more than before. Probably much less given the virus. In fact, backpackers are being given visa extensions so they can go fruit picking. You live in a fantasy land.
I know they’re not.
I’m saying they should be.
They’ll all be on $1100 per fortnight indefinitely and generations of Aussies will be financially crippled sorting out the bill just because a million uber driving vibrants and trysting South American baristas would rather laze around on taxpayer coin than return to their own shithole countries.
You're talking shit again Blowin.
Get it while it’s hot , dickhead.
Here we go again. Time to back up your bullshit about temporary visa holders and backpackers getting $1100 a fortnight payment from our government. You've got absolutely zero credibility on this site.
I can just imagine blowin furiously googling, trying to find something that backs up his bullshit claim. And when he can't find anything, I can just imagine him trying to figure out how he's going to bullshit his way out of the hole.
I can't imagine he'll put up his hand and say, yep, I was lying again. Sorry, I will try and stop making things up.
"I Focus I'm horrified at parts of this thread too, for the life of me I don't understand how you can be ok with a Chinese government-backed company ordering its employees to gather up 70-odd tonnes of medical equipment and freight it back to China.
Oh for god's sake I have already said it should be sorted with a sledgehammer can you fu(ken read?
Then what the fuck is your problem you incontinent dog?
What is this conversation that I'm supposedly on the wrong side of you fucking bell-end?
Thanks another character reference on a roll this thread if you cannot read then its pointless enjoy the darkside.
"One poster many years ago stated your carrying on lot a bunch of CWA Ladies at a jam making competition"
CWA ladies have a lot more class.
So you are just a troll.
I didn't think that anyone could be such a simple cunt, have no argument and make no sense, it's barely possible.
I went back and read the thread you have lost the plot but keep screaming obscenities thats the dark side.
You still haven't answered my explicit questions, I've sincerely tried to figure out what the hell you're on about but you seem happy to play the fool, and do it convincingly.
It’s axiomatic that in any discussion the throwing of insults and obscenities is incontrovertible evidence of defeat.
I'd say refusing to categorically state your position and refusing to answer questions which would define that position are even surer signs of defeat.
Multiple personal arguments going on in this thread now. I'm finding it quite humorous.
Keep up the good work [or don't].
Feels like it's run its course, hey?
Or I should say, they've run their course because there's a few of them.
Gonna be tough to decide Man of the Match in this one.
If Man of the Match goes to the biggest spreader of pure bullshit, Blowin wins hands down!!!
C'mon VL, you're a veteran, you know there's more to the criteria than that. Think, the ability to quickly shift the goal posts, or to perservere as your logic is taken out from under you, force of presence plays a part, as does sarcasm and flashes of self-deprecation.
I want to see a total package.
So like Survivor for online debating. Out bullshit, out distract, out straw man.
Blowin still wins.
Yadayada.
And, umm, ah, I'd like to thank youse all very much.
Me an' the boys have been training hard and the opposition tonight were bloody tough so we're just happy to be here.
And them forwards deserve some respect, they been takin' the pill up the middle of the park all night, doin' the hard toil, so me hat's off to them boys.
But you know, after tonight it's just back to the trainin' paddock, nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel and hopefully we can come out next week and turn it on again for the fans, cos that's what it's all about - if it wasn't for the fans none of this would happen.
So, thanks very much and I love youse all.
Statler no I am not saying non first nation citizens leave I am saying that any form of anger or racism directed at an Asian in the street is wrong.
They could be second or third generation Australian and not even Chinese who would know. How can anyone direct their anger at someone who had nothing to do with this.
The point I am making is that some of the language used here if an Aboriginal directed at you or your children for what your ancestors did is wrong but that's how they feel but same as an Asian in the street with what the chinese government did has nothing to do with them.
Temporary Visa's work out if we need them if not I hope our government works with other governments and they get them home and we get our people home.
And sorry for sounding like a broken record but I hope the government move to reset royalties, make multinationals pat their fair share of taxes and that will help pay off the debt so it's not your and my children paying for this.
Australia 05/04/2020
Active cases-3338
Mild condition :3253 =97%
Serious/critical :85=3%
Closed cases :2349
Recovered /Discharged:2315=99%
Death:34=1%
So let's shut down the economy and send small businesses to the wall.Send millions to Centrelink.Ruin people's livelihoods .All for 34, yes 34 deaths.Of people over 80 with pre-existing conditions.Sounds harsh but what is the annual rate of deaths from the flu?How many people die each month?Death is a consequence of life.
If you think they want this to stop then you are mistaken.The grubs are having the time of their lives,so much POWER.Look at dickhead Dan in Victoriastan ,the true COMMO out and proud.Bought and paid by China.This is no longer about a virus but out and out power.
And the media,the fucken media, revelling in their disaster porn.Fear,hysteria and panic 24/7.What a bunch of xunts.
Fucken turd fondlers the lot of them,government/MSM ,a pox on all their houses.
PS
How many from the bloated public service have lost their jobs? Yeh ,that's right ,none.Just the private sector getting reamed here.Fucken communist filth.
100%
So let me get this straight Horas, you think the c-19 is a communist plot to take over the world. Presumably the experts in pandemics are in on it and they've even managed to fool Donald, but not you or Robo? You guys know better.
That's next level stupidity.
Nah what really happened in China was the result of the 5G network and its deadly radiation, with reports now surfacing that as many as 3 million people may have died from radiation poisoning in that province.
All our rights are gradually eroded as government gets bigger.
- John Stossel
I'd disagree.
All our rights are gradually eroded as Multinational companies part owned with American get bigger.
How do you define big government?
Said my piece.
Now back to the study of successful social interaction.
Fat Pizza vs Housos.
The conclusion to be drawn here. Generally surfers are stupid and selfish. There are a few exceptions. Not many in my experience.
another one...
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/manufacturing/coronavirus-the-…
"The Australian Government last week banned the non-commercial export of PPE such as face masks, hand sanitiser, gloves and gowns."
and seriously, what the fuck has the government been doing?
last week!
if shit like this was dealt with years ago - as it should've been - it wouldn't have had to be so ugly, dealing a crisis from within a crisis
same could be said for the uni's and the wider issue... major issues ignored and dismissed
alarm bells were ringing years ago with all of these issues
the wacky 'supporters' in oz for the chinese olympic torch relay should have raised questions over a decade ago, but nah, just silence
the silent invasion
...as one of the more astute (lefty) academic put it...
Uni's (sic)? FFS Skypan. Higher education is our 6th largest export industry and employees hundreds of thousands of people. It's also kicked along an apartment building boom with Aussie landlords making good bucks off international students. The spinoffs are enormous.
And do you seriously think the non-commercial export of PPE only works in one direction. Pay attention mate, there's all sorts of dodgy importing of PPE by Australian companies, but you only see Chinese people as the problem.
If you want to see dodgy some PPE / medical equipment deals being done, look what is happening in the USA. They are literally hijacking equipment sold and bound for Europe. But hey, it's only China doing it right!!
Just more China bad Aussie good simplistic bullshit coming from the usual suspects.
"Uni's (sic)? FFS Skypan. Higher education is our 6th largest export industry and employees hundreds of thousands of people. It's also kicked along an apartment building boom with Aussie landlords making good bucks off international students. The spinoffs are enormous."
you present this like its a good thing .....perspectives I guess...
the 'spinoffs' may be 'enourmous', but so are the costs. well past time for a reckoning I reckon
yes students are a huge economic bonus, but what are you willing to sell in the process?
too much!
the students don't have to be chinese, other countries governments don't expect such submission to facilitate their students. other students will come ....as will the chinese ... balance grasshopper...
it's way out atm
"And do you seriously think the non-commercial export of PPE only works in one direction. Pay attention mate, there's all sorts of dodgy importing of PPE by Australian companies, but you only see Chinese people as the problem."
do you seriously not appreciate the scale and scope of what's going on here?
its a pathetic comparison
Whatever Skypan, Your promoting insane economic isolationism (eg America First, Australia First etc) while carrying on about PPE problems. Where the fuck do you think the vast majority of our PPE and medical equipment comes from? It's not locally made.
Yeah go team Australia, Aussie first, we can do this, let's start trade wars and stand on our own two feet. Let us know how you plan to keep the health system going with locally produced equipment only.
It must be bizarre living in your world with simplistic solutions to complex problems. And while we are at it, how's that nationalistic BS working out for Trump, England, Brazil etc.
Who do you think has stepped into the void left by America's lurch to isolationalism and a weakened Europe? Maybe listen to Trump, It's Chi..........na.
Hi Vic Local !
Just a quick and happy heads up.....I think you’ll find that the declines in the USA and the UK started occurring when they abandoned nationalism for globalisation.
I think you’ll also find that China’s success stems primarily from MOST other countries in the world abandoning nationalistic self reliance at the same time that China steadfastly remained one of the most nationalised countries on the planet. Every company within China is subject to state control or ownership.
Turns out that nationalism is the key to a country’s success . Unfortunately, neoliberalism gains nothing when a country succeeds and so a false narrative of nationalism = Nazism had to be broadcast so that the mindless punters of the world wouldn’t riot when they started realising that their homelands were being transformed into the economic equivalent of a diabetic with the refined sugar rush of debt-fuelled FIRE and service industry as their only economic activity.
You probably would have come to the correct conclusion sooner or later if you’d thought about it .....I’m positive you would have !
Foreign investment in China exceeds foreign investment by China. Doesn’t sound too much like nationalistic self-reliance.
Ha Ha Cromwell. Looks like Blowin fancies himself as a bit of an economics professor as well. One of course who happily ignores facts and likes to give us his "Alan Jones" inspired view of the world.
China bad. China bad. China bad. Always Always Always.
Hi Cromwell.
Mate , I think you’ll find that China utilises inflows of foreign investment AKA cash to bolster its nationalistic stance.
No foreign company is allowed to operate in China without having Chinese nationals as dominant partners. These partners represent the Chinese government.
No foreign company is allowed to operate in China without surrendering its intellectual property rights to the Chinese National who is a proxy for the state.
There is no foreign ownership of real estate allowed.
In summation....foreign cash is welcome in China . But it buys nothing and the value of operating in China always lands in China’s favour.
This is the exact inverse of Chinese investments in foreign lands. China either buys foreign investments unencumbered and China ALWAYS ensures that its loans to foreign states are collateralised in real estate or essential infrastructure. These investments are only ever developed to forward Chinese interests . If the nation receiving the loan defaults then China is now in possession of the infrastructure it wanted in the first place.
It’s the transnational equivalent of loansharking.
Even when foreign nations accept the Chinese loans they are beholden to contracts which ensure that every last Yuan of capital is repatriated to China. Contracts stipulate Chinese companies to build the projects using Chinese labour. The Chinese labour stays at Chinese owned accomodation and is provisioned by Chinese provedores.
When the project is complete the foreign nation is now host to a substantial Chinese diaspora / colony and the foreign nation is now on its way to becoming a vassal state of the Sino empire.
Perhaps you should research what nationalism entails , Cromwell. I think you may believe the neoliberal propagandists who insist that nationalism is restricted to Western nations .
Good luck furthering your education, mate !
Hi Blowin, a lot of the recent investment has gone into the high tech area. Huawei is generally agreed to have the best 5G technology and in particular has modular units than can serve small communities highly efficiently. None of their competitors can match this technology. Investors will always be attracted to the best in the field and, like it or loathe it, Huawei are currently the best. China is also far ahead in smart cities technology which is likely to be hugely important over coming decades. China is a totalitarian corporate state and will be the dominant world power for the rest of this century. We would do well to maintain our excellent, mutually beneficial trading relationship with them with the appropriate supervision, which is naturally always a work in progress.
G'day Blowin. Now we are getting somewhere.
"Just a quick and happy heads up.....I think you’ll find that the declines in the USA and the UK started occurring when they abandoned nationalism for globalisation.
I think you’ll also find that China’s success stems primarily from MOST other countries in the world abandoning nationalistic self reliance at the same time that China steadfastly remained one of the most nationalised countries on the planet. Every company within China is subject to state control or ownership.
Turns out that nationalism is the key to a country’s success . Unfortunately, neoliberalism gains nothing when a country succeeds and so a false narrative of nationalism = Nazism had to be broadcast so that the mindless punters of the world wouldn’t riot when they started realising that their homelands were being transformed into the economic equivalent of a diabetic with the refined sugar rush of debt-fuelled..."
and all this while the neolberal globalist china fawners (left and right) simutaneously dismantled the tatters of any semblance of nationalised services we had left...
the uni's had already sold their souls, and now their shallow credibility is shattered, they literally have nothing left to sell
nice job vic local, your answer is more sell sell sell
Yeah Isolationism and Nationalism rules. Worked so well in North Korea, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, and Indonesia during the Suharto era. And how good is it working in the UK and USA? If you want a fucked up economy and society the first thing to do is start putting up the shutters and telling your fellow countrymen we're better off on our own. sypkan, your argument may play well to the Pauline Hanson set, but it's a recipe for disaster. As soon as Australia starts putting up trade barriers to China, they will simply stop buying our stuff. Not sure the farmers would be too pleased with your crackpot ideology.
Hi Vic Local !
Are you aware that isolationism and nationalism are seperate entities ?
Whilst they can compliment each other it is possible to prioritise the interests of a nation without completely shutting down transnational trade.
But I’m sure you knew that. You must’ve just mistyped.
Just like you would be the first to admit that nearly 200 countries operated as nation states for several hundred years and this provided for the most successful nations on Earth. In fact the worlds greatest empires have always sprung from nation states.
The USA operated as a nation state for centuries. It became the dominant society on Earth until its infection by the neoliberal ideology which debased the primacy of nationalism .
Sounds like you’ve got a lot to learn....you’re lucky ! Education is fun !
BTW...I’ve already addressed the situation in the US and the UK in my previous post. You should try reading ALL the words before you commit your ideas to the internet.
I feel like we have finally connected. I admire your determination to comment despite your naïveté !
at 'the atlantic' no less...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/consider-possibility-….
changing narratives?
Here is a link to another story on the page Spycan posted.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/5g-where-china-and-we…
Excerpt
And recent revelations about how China’s ruling party exploits the full panoply of personal information it has amassed about its citizens—facial-recognition images, mandatory DNA samples, 24-hour GPS coordinates, and search-history and online-activity tracking, as well as plain old eavesdropping—to quash religious freedom and basic rights should give major pause to Western governments and wireless carriers alike.
Orwellian nightmare or what.
Careful Sypkan, you,ll wake that Victorian guy from his hangover after his "Best on Ground" celebrations last night
Interesting article Syppo and hard to argue against in several aspects.
"And the reality is that only one organization in the entire world has as its sole responsibility the American people’s safety. That institution is the U.S. government. Whether led by Republicans or Democrats—or by Donald Trump or anyone else—it should always put the American people first."
And, at least for the foreseeable future,
"the state remains the irreplaceable agent of international power and effective action, that international institutions have limited capacity to transform the behavior and preferences of states."
So by extension, the duty of the Australian government is to place the well-being of Australians and Australia first and foremost even if it means protecting against incursions by the U.S., China, the U.K. or whoever.
And for the benefit of some in the Swellnet community, this does not equate to attacks on individuals in Australia with those respective heritages.
"Gold Coast beaches will close to deter Easter visitors"
Now do SC please!
Not all and only to non locals.
Ok post this shit storm who on here is going to start a manufacturing business to replace imports or invest some money into a start up that will do this.
I hope we can move away from this consumption world of wanting more, more, more but that's a ship to be turned slowly and we are stuck with this system of needing to have a job and earning money to support ourselves etc.
So interested to see if anyone here is planning to take the step from pointing out what they dont like to doing something about it.
When I heard this news..
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/power-play-former-fortescue-b…
If ever there arose a power team in Australia's history to swing the pendulum back in our favour... this could be it.
I agree with this article in a sense that anyone can analyse a weather report from a source like BOM and get a gauge on whether the surf will be good or not. Regardless of Swellnet posting reports or not, people will find other sources if they are keen. In victoria people who are from Melbourne may only surf once a week as their form of exercise so is that allowed provided these people are practising social distancing??
"In victoria people who are from Melbourne may only surf once a week as their form of exercise so is that allowed provided these people are practising social distancing??"
There's been repeated messages that people are not to travel to places to exercise. Our Council keeps saying don't come down to the coast. Everyday, Melbournites and people from Geelong travel to the beaches in full cars. They aren't socially distancing on their journey down, so it's not like they start when they get down here. The local groms are just as bad if not worse.
It's been more than 2 weeks since lockdown, and this situation just gets worse every time there are decent waves. No amount of encouraging people to distance themselves is working. It pains me to say this, but surfing should be banned for a while.
That's just not true- I've been surfing heaps and there are way less people in the water. And even if there are people in the water - so what? Just keep your distance and don't hang out I the carpark. It's no big deal.
Just hurry up already and catch the virus so we can get back to normal life and not trash the economy anyway.
Great, another fucking idiot with billythekid joining the conversation. Are you going to lead the way on getting and spreading the virus so we can get the economy back on track? Maybe you could start by coughing and sneezing on your Nan and Pa. By your rational, that would be doing everyone a favour. Why don't you fuck off to the USA where that attitude is commonplace? You know, the country that is building temporary morgues as fast as possible.
You and Robo (who doesn't listen to the experts because doctors can't stop common colds) come from a special class of morons.
Vic Local, you're obviously a stupid, opinionated bogan.
It's not fair to bankrupt a generation, mortgage their future, for nan and pop. There it is. I'm pretty sure nan and pop agree with me.
And going for a surf doesn't mean spreading the virus. You've conflated the two points.
But on the point of deaths that result from unemployment - in the US the estimate is that for every 1% rise in unemployment there are 10 000 associated deaths. So they're looking at a rise in unemployment from 3.5% to at least 20%. Lets say 23.5%. That's 200 000 unemployment related deaths that will result from trashing the economy by imposing social distancing for an extended period. How many deaths does Trump project from corona? 100 000-240 000
(the 1% rise in unemployment equating to 10 000 deaths is from a debate between Stephen Roach, senior fellow at Yale University’s Jackson Institute for Global Affairs and a senior lecturer at Yale School of Management and Stephen Moore, US writer and economist . Check out https://munkdebates.com/podcast for the reference.)
And who will be the unemployed people dying? Typically it will be the poor, which means people who aren't asset holders which means younger people. So its the poor and the young who will be sacrificed to protect the older, generally richer generations
Because there is one thing that's for sure - the US fed and our reserve bank will protect asset holders at all costs. They have to, or the banks will face liquidity issues and the economy will grind to a halt. Massive wealth destruction. Depression.
You might say that the Australian reserve bank can just print our way out of such a situation - and maybe they can. The US did, Japan did, Europe did and the last two still are. In Denmark there are negative interest rate mortgages. Who knows? Actually no one knows. This type of economics is completely new. All that is clear is that younger people can be sacrificed because they don't have liabilities and if they are set back, they have years to recover.
We need to examine the fairness of this issue and stop being emotional and reactive.
Are you capable of that Vic Local? Or are you so dead set on righteous judgment because that's all you know, because that's all your narrow mind and stupid blinkered outlook has ever known?
I think you need to get out for a surf and clear your head so you can understand what's really at stake here.
Or maybe you need to go dig a hole, get into your comfort zone, and get off this forum and the pressure you're putting on yourself to say something substantial
Take it easy with the racism VL.
Billy, saying "just hurry up and catch it" suggests you have a very poor understanding of how the virus works and the capability of the health system. The measures are not designed to specifically protect the old, though of course they are more vulnerable. This affects everyone. If you're not worried about CV19, then perhaps you might understand that our usually full ICU beds across the country won't have any capacity for you when you have a car accident.
This is what happens when everybody catches it. Have a watch.
https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/new-yorks-health-system-overwhelmed-by-coro…
Question:
Are we just delaying the inevitable with the virus?
If we maintain excessive social distancing (sd) won’t the virus still linger around & herd immunity (through coronavirus virus recovery) take a lot longer to achieve?
Wouldn’t it be best to slooooowly infect the population (develop immunity) so that the hospitals could manage the more severe cases.
We have no community transmission whatsoever where I am located (population about 750k) with a lot of hysteria and draconian laws, & it appears there is no end in sight.
Or is it the case we need to continue social distancing / lockdown until we have a vaccination, which could take up to 1 year?
I don’t know, just asking, but me and Utah are getting pretty sceptical with the decisions being forced on us....
I think you are right about delaying the inevitable but that is the point. Flattening the curve and all that. At some point we will have to remove the restrictions and then it will be up to individuals to assess their own risks and decide their own behaviour. The hope, probably forlorn, is that a vaccine will be available by that time. It is good to remember that this disease can kill and not just the elderly. In terms of your local area it is only an assumption that there is no community transmission. That could change at any moment. Patience is what will serve us best for quite a while yet.
Yep, I am already restless Cromwell and its only week 2 or 3 of the new draconian laws. I just hope we don’t have another 11 months of this. Fingers-crossed the vaccine is a winner!!! I suppose no matter which polar opposite approach the government takes, from the relaxed swedes approach to the kiwis full lockdown, there will always be opposition. Yes, it is questionable about the community transmission, maybe it is present, but the daily reports don’t really reflect this. Also, the fearmongering from the media is not helping the situation, in way that people now think everyone has the virus and there appears to be emotional distancing on top of social distancing. Looks like it’s a good opportunity to try cultivate some patience, I might have 11mths to master it…
"the fearmongering from the media is not helping the situation, in way that people now think everyone has the virus"
- This is the exact response that was hoped for. The more the general public fear getting infected the more they retract from interaction and the less infections there are. This is called 'working as designed'.
"it is questionable about the community transmission, maybe it is present, but the daily reports don’t really reflect this"
- The reason that we are not seeing it is because of the "new draconian laws" that you previously mentioned once again 'working as designed'.
I doubt that we'll be in this position for more than a few months, the police commissioner doubts it, the statisticians all doubt it. Medical practitioners are super stressed because of what has been seen overseas and the possibility of what could happen here (is happening at a greatly reduced amount in few areas). Most countries who saw a severe peak are already starting to trend down.
Australia is in the top ranks for tests per million, and in the lowest for deaths per million and deaths by infection. I think this will all be over, relatively speaking, sooner than the media is leading people to believe.
Like droughts, floods, fires, and more droughts, floods, and fires, some people will suffer and lose dearly but overall we will recover and move on to the next 'thing'. Hopefully the next thing will be 5ft barrels lightly brushed by an offshore breeze with an easy paddle in and low crowds. Also cheap housing and full employment but the former is more likely.
Call me cray if you want, but I think I will get my information from the medical experts rather than someone on Swellnet who calls himself epictard.
You mean those that cant even come up for a cure for a common cold.
Oh FFS, Robo. Just do a bit of homework.
"The most common variety of common cold is rhinovirus, which accounts for around 50% of all infections (it gets its name not directly from the wild animal but because “rhino” is Greek for “nose”). Kids are usually infected between eight and 12 times a year, adults more like two or three times. Other viruses that we also think of as the common cold include adenovirus, respiratory syncytial virus and influenza virus. But for most scientists in this field, cracking rhinovirus is the number one challenge."
"Rhinovirus is not just one organism. There are currently over 160 different strains, and it’s extremely difficult to make a vaccine or antiviral that will cover all of them."
https://theconversation.com/we-have-a-good-chance-of-curing-the-common-…
I am totally on your side Vic, I am not dishing out any advice, just how I hope it'll play out.
Yep, less than 3mths would be nice, not sure what it’ll look like for us & how they will manage the relaxation, & what will be our reference point? Considering each country has taken a slightly different approach, like US, Italy, Sweden, China etc. Yet China lacks transparency so not sure about their efficacy. Who knows which way is best, there are so many armchair critics critiquing their own profession but maybe it will blow over in three months... Yep cheap houses would be nice but I don’t have a job now because of the virus and pretty poor, lucky for the rich who keep on getting richer.... hopefully we can sneak in a few barrels to keep our sanity... William Wallace would be turning in his grave ‘the virus is taking our lives and taking our freedom’ faaaaark....
Bodhi - totally agree. We are delaying the inevitable and it's the younger generation who are being asked to pay. You're being given free money to keep you dumb and happy while your future is mortgaged for the older generation. Its criminal. BTW I'm not young - it's not in my interest to say what I'm saying.
So you're old and stupid then billythekid. A Dunning-Kruger fool of the highest order. With no medical background, you know better than the experts. It's a dangerous blend of incompetence and arrogance. You probably do your own electrical work too.
VL you're missing the point - as usual. I'm not denying people will die, I'm saying that on balance, that's not the worst thing. They will die if the economy is trashed too. It's just a question of who dies. Actually read my posts. Then think a bit. If you can. Try not not to just react.
Sorry for the late reply, I was having a surf.
No billythekid, I did read your post and found it so profoundly stupid, I came to the conclusion that it didn't deserve an in depth rebuttal.
You're actually arguing for Australia to take an option that would send the country down the path of Italy, Spain and the USA. That is pure medical and economic madness.
No, I’m arguing we shouldn’t trash the economy to save mostly older lives.
The example I’ve given is Sweden, I never suggested that the USA etc were the way to go
So VL you’ve proved my point- you don’t read properly, you misrepresent, you react, you insult and that’s about all you’ve got
So I reiterate- go dig a hole and make yourself feel better. Or have a surf.
How many old people are you prepared to sacrifice to "save" the economy then billythekid? Maybe your parents? Would that be OK?
Which sections of the economy do you want reopened? Hospitality, tourism, schools, universities, etc? You do realise your plan puts waiters, chefs, teachers etc in the firing line too. 500 deaths in Sweden so far and it certainly doesn't look like they've even come close to their peak. Australia has 40 deaths and it looks like our infection growth rate is decreasing. NZ 1 death because they reacted way earlier than Australia. USA is a complete disaster, which is going to be ongoing one for a very long time.
The crazy thing is, the countries that tried the Swedish approach have come to regret it big time. The Lancet, indicated that "the initial slowness of reaction from countries such as the UK, the US and Sweden now appears to be increasingly unwelcome".
Do you seriously believe the countries that didn't lock down early and hard will have economies that bounce back quicker? You're Trumpian opinions are a complete nonsense, especially in the Australian context where our economy very much relies on exports (which have collapsed whether we lock down or not).
VL a lot of questions there, that's progress.
I don't think the present and future prosperity of a generation - millions - of young people should be sacrificed to save older generations. That includes my parents, myself. No way. It's a basic principle - women and children first.
As far as which sections of the economy should be reopened - all. We're all getting corona virus eventually. May as well get it now. Instead of buying 25billion in govt bonds every month so the govt can pay people for not working and double the payment of students and the unemployed, the reserve bank should fund an increase in ICU beds. Fill the MCG or whatever with them. If we had the capacity, then the same number will die, they'll just die in a shorter time frame. If we don't have the capacity, a few more will die. It's still relatively small numbers compared to over a million job losses, which means hundreds of thousands of young families broke, credit ruined, a slow drag into the future as these people never build wealth.
Do I believe countries that didn't lock down hard will have economies that bounce back quicker? Yes. They will bounce back quicker. Simply because they will be laden with less debt. And there will be less wealth destruction. The mortgage holidays, the rent holidays etc. etc. - it all has to be paid back.
And if they didn't shut down at all then there would be nothing to bounce back from. Most people don't get that sick. they'll keep working, surfing, partying. Maybe just a bit of sow down, but no recession.
Billy, it seems you don't understand the machinations of paying back debt and what that debt actually entails, either. If debt was really so dreadful and not such an effective decoy for them to whip the muppetry into an ignorance-fuelled fever, the LNP wouldn't be doing such a 180 on it.
The gloom and doom you read about the future economic implications in the Murdoch press aren't necessarily correct.
Tango I understand that paying back debt means cutting services, raising taxes. And at a certain point it means a re-rating of our credit which means higher borrowing costs for all. And this all translates to higher health costs, higher education costs, less support for the vulnerable etc . Nothing really good. I'm not saying debt itself is bad. But 25b a month? How many years did it take to pay back 40b? We've got an ageing population. Where is the pension money gonna come from if people spend less over the next ten or fifteen years cos they're paying more for health education tax etc? It's a slow grind down.
But you're right. No one knows what will happen. If you've got a light to shine on the end of this tunnel, please, turn it on.
Billy, I guess it all depends on the people you trust and listen to.
I'm assuming from what you've said that you are fairly young, and by extension you have only been exposed to the political argy-bargy on the economy and Australia's debt position over the past decade or so when Tony Abbott et al and his associated idiots were either tearing down the government's attempts to create a broader tax base, or trying to run the country...remember Hockey's first budget? Oh hang on, those idiots were all supervising the apprenticeships of the current crop. Fancy that.
Here's an article from Michael Pascoe in New Daily which makes a case for the debt issue.
A couple of key take-homes:
1) "The reality of our current debt explosion is that it is quite affordable if it pays for a return to anything like ‘normal’ growth."
2) the last sentence of the article.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2020/03/31/coronavirus-…
The conservatives and their media muppets have been demonising debt for years even though their own management of the economy has blown the previous Govt's debt levels - which the LNP hyped as a national disaster - completely out of the water, but that's how stupid the electorate are...All the reputable economists who've ever had a semblance of a role in being responsible for anything (as opposed to reading neo-classical economic textbooks) have been telling state and federal governments to borrow while $ is cheap (and it's even cheaper now) and invest it in productivity-boosting infrastructure and the like.
Short story is that paying back the likely debt won't cripple the show like the Right would have you believe - unless of course, the Right are running the country, in which case we may very well be in the cross-hairs. Besides, they need every cent to pork-barrel and won't want to spend it on debt repayment.
Hey thanks for that I’ll take a look.
I agree with point one - “if” being the crucial word here
But for point 2, I can’t see how bond purchases to fund social security payments salaries and govt rents is investing in “productivity boosting infrastructure“. It looks like the opposite.
"If", indeed - a test for the "ideologically straitjacketed" that point 2 refers to (the last sentence of the article.)
I agree re the opposite occurring - my point was they had the chance to do that and didn't. At the moment it seems they are just trying to stop things going into complete freefall and avoid the anarchy that would probably follow. It's interesting watching the conservatives doing the exact type of things they wrote off for decades.
Billy, Bodhi, Epic, Robbo;
I salute your non adherence to the herd mentality.
Billy, Bodhi, Epic, Robbo;
"I salute your non adherence to the herd mentality" Is that just a euphemism for
"your callous disregard for vulnerable people's health by ignoring medical experts."?
Billy even suggested Na and Pa would be happy if the economy was given priority over their health.
"Here lies Nanna an Pa Billythekidd.
They died so Billythekid could go surfing and get a cafe lunch. 2020".
That's what it boils down to.
I am interested in how I was lumped in with this group.
The NSW Health Minister starting to weave into her messaging "we will have to keep social distancing until a vaccine is found". Get ready for a mandatory shot in the arm chaps, brought to you by non other than the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which also is the majority funder of the World Health Organisation, where this saga all started.. Hang on?? WTF?? And in other news Cardinal George Pell walks from jail today.. Haha... Wow.. If you're not outraged, your not paying attention.
I'm outraged, Shortbus!
Why are the governments stockpiling oranges and kiwi fruit? Because they KnOw lifemin C will cure us all! Carona virus starts with 'c', so does vitamin c? It has to BE!
What about 5G, Shortbus? We NEED more outrage!!
China starts with a C too. And guess what else starts with a "c"? chloroquine. That's right, the Completely useless drug Trump thinks Can Cure Corona. Lucky he's threatening eConomiC retaliation on India beCause they won't ship him enormous quantities of the stuff. I know another thing that starts with two c's. (omplete (unt.
Actually there might be some truth in the matter so I’ve been told through the grapevine… the jury is still out though…
Apparently…. This came from Foxey Loxey who was told by Turkey Lurkey (gobble gobble gobble) who was told by Goosey Loosey who was told by Henny Penny who was told by Chicken Little who actually felt an acorn hit him on his head.
Please don’t shoot the messenger…
hahaha exactly bohdi, dont shoot the messenger.
hahaha exactly bohdi, dont shoot the messenger.
You can still play golf and the horses are still racing, carry on, Surfs up.
Callous with a capital C.
Yeah perhaps thats me.
I've heard theres plenty in the medical professions and others who think that saving human life is the ultimate goal. They are misguided.
When quality of life has ended its time to cash in ya chips coz you're a burden to yourself, your family and to society.
Nana and Pa included if they're in that bracket.
Sorry but it's the truth.
Faaaark... anyone?
Why stop at older people ?
If we’re going to cut the dead wood to streamline society , why limit ourselves to culling the elderly ?
Let’s go Full Sparta .
Light a massive bonfire and heap on those who are weighing down the all important economy......obviously start with the unemployed such as Aussie dole bludgers and the professionally disabled vibrants .
Now we are starting to warm up . Sick people will be first to go. Let’s get rid of the truly disabled. Face it ....they’re as bad as nan and pop. All their carers will be made redundant so we may as well burn them preemptively before they waste productive infra capacity driving down to register for welfare .
Who else is unnecessary ?
Artists , sportsmen. What do they actually do anyway ? No Olympics means that Sally Fitzgibbons and Owen Wright are now a fiscal drag on Australia. At least we know they’ll catch fire even if they’ve never contributed in any meaningful way in their entire lives. I don’t watch TV and frankly I think that people such as David Koche should have been used for kindling , so there the entertainment industry gone.
Who else ?
You know what ? Why hem ourselves in with the metric of economic activity ? Some things are just as important to Australians as financial well being .....especially those all important young generation which this whole human pyre is meant to benefit.
One thing I do know is that young people don’t like ugly. It’s not fair to force them to have their next-gen eyes burdened by unsightly citizens.
Goodbye practically everyone West of Inner city Sydney and East of The Swan river.....uggh, have you seen those people ?
Ditto the entire ACT.
And SUP riders. The fuck are they good for ?
Fat people. Fashionistas. Bad drivers.
Now we are getting somewhere !
Personally I’m not going to rest until the only Australians left are a handful of good looking tweenagers resolutely staring at Tik Tok , who obsessively blame everyone around them for their desperste existence as indulged Western princelings.
Think how perfectly efficient Australia could be !
OK....who’s got the matches ?
Wow! There are no words.......You need help.
There is a lot of evidence ( Starting with Freud's theory on humour) that sarcasm is infused with the tellers truth and is a means of communicating their hostility on a subject.......or in this case, multiple subjects.
You should have stopped typing after saying you had no words.
There’s still the edit button if you want to reclaim some dignity.
Freud's theory is evidence? what?
Just wondering about this "young people are going to pay for this" angle? Im still working , working on paying my next BAS bill at the moment in fact (which will go right into the jobkeeper/seeker debarcle, missing surf all the time cause I,m at fucking work , heaps young cunts surf lots , work a bit and dont pay nearly as much tax as I have to. Tax is based on what you earn or in actual fact passes through your business if your self employed (the group that pays more tax per capita than anyone). get off you high horse billythekid. I,m no baby boomer, got fuck all super, lucky enough to work for myself so I have some flexibility to get a surf during the day on occasion but thats the high point. Stop blaming boomers and nana and pa for everything and take a bit of responsibility for yourself mate, being spoonfed your whole life is a cop out. Maybe get to work on time and do a hard day and you,ll have work, then you have money, then you can buy shit ,thats life.
Hey Mike, do you wanna hand over the keys to your car and house? And is it OK if we just disappear all your work and make your business go under? You can ask your landlord to let you pay rent on your workshop in six months if you have no cash. And if you can't pay then cos we made all your customers broke, sorry, your fucked, you'll never get a lease again. Or credit. But that's OK. You did a great thing. Your sacrifice kept Nan and Pa alive a little bit longer. Thanks Mike.
Not sure what your trying to say billy? Do you even know?
Or have you just been slapped in the face with the reality instagram influencing isnt going to pay for your smashed avocado/soy chai latte lifestyle anymore?
Sounds like Coles/Woolies is still hiring, here,s a tip though, cover up that neck tattoo,rock up on time and leave your phone at home (with mum) and they might give you a job.
Bit early in the day to be looking around for people to blame for your life choices kid.
Mike what I'm saying is that you may become an economic casualty of this shit. I'm asking how you feel about that? Are you prepared to lose it all? Is that a choice you made?
Nearly 1m Aussie jobs lost so far. Demand is drying up. Companies are starting to raise capital, diluting shareholders. There goes your super. That's 1m Aussies who, sooner rather than later, won't be paying rent or their mortgage. Some will muddle through. Most won't. They'll be crippled with debt in six months. Their credit will be ruined and many will never recover from this. People like you.
That's what I'm talking about.
And how is that the fault of old people? True we are all going to be effected by this shit show- no doubt .
If your looking to point fingers though, perhaps pointing at The Peoples Republic of China would be a starting point.
"The object of terrorism is terrorism.The object of torture is torture.The object of murder is murder.The object of power IS power.NOW do you begin to understand me? "
George Orwell,1984.
Hey hours, have you read 1984? Or do you find your inspo quotes on instagram?
Do you young people not realise that if you make it to 70 you are doing pretty bloody alright?
It is easy to not live past 50 if you live a self destructive lifestyle. Just saying.
Take the time, listen to an older, wiser, hear their stories. Within your future you may have the opportunity to share their stories with your grandkids.
And your stories...just sayin'.
In the Western world:-
Anyone who is 80+ has seen WW2 or further and toughed it out under the harshest of times no doubt knows how lucky they are and shouldn't be afraid of dying.
Anyone 70-80 has lived through the most fortunate time in modern history where money and health have given them a golden ticket and should not be so greedy as to expect excessive longevity at the cost of future generations.
60- 70 you would very likely feel ripped off that you haven't reaped all the benefits of hard work and taxes.
Below 60 = as above but with greater emphasis.
Its the 30-40-50 yo approx with young families and the generations beneath that are gonna be absolutely screwed by the actions of self protecting elders.
I have tried to believe that if things are that fucking bad. They can only get better...
Sometimes things need to get a little worse before they gets better.
But better they get.... eventually.
Why stop at older people ?
If we’re going to cut the dead wood to streamline society , why limit ourselves to culling the elderly ?
Let’s go Full Sparta .
Light a massive bonfire and heap on those who are weighing down the all important economy......obviously start with the unemployed such as Aussie dole bludgers and the professionally disabled vibrants .
Now we are starting to warm up . Sick people will be first to go. Let’s get rid of the truly disabled. Face it ....they’re as bad as nan and pop. All their carers will be made redundant so we may as well burn them preemptively before they waste productive infrastructure capacity driving down to register for welfare .
Who else is unnecessary ?
Artists , sportsmen. What do they actually do anyway ? No Olympics means that Sally Fitzgibbons and Owen Wright are now a fiscal drag on Australia. At least we know they’ll catch fire even if they’ve never contributed in any meaningful way in their entire lives. I don’t watch TV and frankly think that people such as David Koche should have been used for kindling , so there’s the entertainment industry gone.
Who else ?
You know what ? Why hem ourselves in with the metric of economic activity ? Some things are just as important to Australians as financial well being .....especially those all important young generation which this whole human pyre is meant to benefit.
One thing I do know is that young people don’t like ugly. It’s not fair to force them to have their next-gen eyes burdened by unsightly citizens.
Goodbye practically everyone West of Inner city Sydney and East of The Swan river.....uggh, have you seen those people ?
Ditto the entire ACT.
And SUP riders. The fuck are they good for ?
Fat people. Fashionistas. Bad drivers.
Now we are getting somewhere !
Personally I’m not going to rest until the only Australians left are a handful of good looking tweenagers resolutely staring at Tik Tok , who obsessively blame everyone around them for their desperste existence as indulged Western princelings.
Think how perfectly efficient Australia could be !
OK....who’s got the matches ?
Fuck it, the Current Climate does need a Change.
Agree...pro surfing sucks. What does a real surfer get out of pro surfing? Crowded lineups, beach closures during comps, not much else.
Real surfer? Never seen one.
billythekid's argument that the economy needs saving, by relaxing social distancing rules, is pure madness. It is a very clear demonstration of conservative cruelty and stupidity.
He's basically arguing for a cull of humans, even suggesting old people would be cool with it. Good luck with defending the ethics of bumping off Nanna and Grandpa..
Secondly his plan is incredibly stupid. The world is full of countries that tried to protect their economies by delaying lock down. How did that work out for them? Countries like the UK, China, Italy, France, Spain, and sections of the USA tried it and are in full lockdown anyway (China excepted) with crumbling health systems and full morgues.
billythekid likes to point to Sweden as an example where his "let the old people die to protect the economy" policy is working. It's a terrible example. Sweden's deaths/infection figures are awful compared to other Scandinavian countries and they are steadily increasing isolation rules, shutting down more and more sections of their economy. Sweden, like so many other countries, is trying to carry on as normal. It just means they end up going into lockdown during a medical crisis. Not only does this put people in body bags, having an incompetent government crushes business and consumer confidence. That's not good for the economy billy.
billythkid is just your typical right wing conservative. He thinks he knows better than the experts, the economy trumps human health, and he simply ignores the facts to blindly support a cruel and stupid ideology.
Most of the USA took (or is still taking) the billythekid option. NZ (1 death) did the opposite.
Good luck defending that.
+1
But VL, the US is in lockdown. I'm saying no lockdown, spend the money on increasing ICU capabilities. Same number of people die as we're all getting coronavirus anyway. They just die faster. But millions dont go broke as well. What's wrong with that?
"But VL, the US is in lockdown"
Do your research billythekid. It prevents embarrassing yourself. There's still six US states not in lockdown. Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming have no statewide limits.
"spend the money on increasing ICU capabilities". Wow, why didn't I think of that. Maybe because you just can't throw money at this problem to solve it. How long do you think it takes to train doctors and nurses up to ICU standards? Oh and ventilators just grow on trees. And did you even think that ICUs have highly specialised infrastructure. You can't just turn a standard room into an ICU overnight. It takes time (which we don't have) and money to create ICU capabilities. FFS You haven't thought any of your arguments through.
Go back to the Young Liberals Club at uni and push your nonsense there.
VL those six states are insignificant.
You can throw money at this problem. It's just a question of how much. 25b a month is a lot. Would probably be enough. Doctors, nurses, equipment - all gettable if we pay enough. Fast track training is totally doable. Utilise the army. So why don't we pay? Because sentiment is easier to sell.
"VL those six states are insignificant". So you're admitting your previous statement was bullshit. Lockdowns also come down to enforcement and definition of "essential services". Many US states consider religious gatherings as "essential services", so to claim the US is in lockdown is complete BS and you know it. Just admit you got it wrong.
Utilise the army? Oh FFS do you seriously think army medical professionals are just sitting around doing nothing. No disrespect to our military, but the idea that they can build hospitals including ICUs overnight and treat patients is just fanciful. The military were of limited use during the fires, and this health crisis is so much more complicated.
"Fast track training is totally doable". More BS. You may not have noticed this but the health system is already under the pump. Over the last few weeks there has been significant up-skilling of medical professionals but there are limitations to how much can be done. Do you even understand that the lockdown was designed to give our hospitals as much time as possible to prepare for the influx of patients?
Your plan to let infections spread is madness, and now you're just making up wild statements to justify it.
Nobody except the nutters at the IPA think your ideas are sensible. Just admit it and move on. Stop trying to make yourself look smart with these wild schemes. It's just having the opposite effect.
Just visited my in-laws yesterday in a nursing home for their 65th wedding anniversary and he turned 90 last Saturday she is 93. They have a 1 for 1 rule for 30 mins so we can both visit. Both have dementia, they reconize us but can't really hold a proper conversation, just flip from one thing to another and ramble on.
He had bladder cancer cut out over xmas she is ok except for macula in her eyes, although if they didn't help her eat she would be dead.
As much as we love them and they have been great parents/grand parents they have no quality of life and are just waiting to die as are most of them in there.
They have only been in there a year and thank god they are not at home now to deal with all this.
My parents are in their mid to late 70's and are in self isolation in their house.
So billythekid i can see your agrument as i have a business going no where now too, but i am experiencing the other side too with our oldies and not looking for any funerals right now.
Still not a believer in your total lock down Vic local for surfing if young people could do the right thing but i think its a losing battle as time goes on. They are not all like it my daughters boyfriend 19 is a student nurse and is still surfing but is right onto not hanging around or go anywhere with more than 2.
Billy the Kid, the Spanish Flu started in January 1918, it killed mostly infants and the very old in the first wave. The second more deadly wave came in October 1918 and it killed young adults. Tens of millions of them. It lasted two years.
Be careful what you wish for.
Billy the kid is talking shit.
There’s a very , very good chance that this economic lockdown will trigger the great unraveling of the house price Ponzi which has enslaved generations of Australians.
Young people should be cheering that they maybe looking at a reduction in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and decades less mortgage hanging over their heads and affecting every single life choice they make from amount of children they have to where they live to the type of shitfull, unfulfilling existence they’ll accept just to put a roof over their heads.
The elderly are also the highest holders of the assets which would be devalued in the downturn and so they are the worst off financially.
The basis for Billy’s martyrising of anyone over 55 is based on sophistry.
Go home Billy......you’re drunk !
Blowin the only thing I'm almost sure of is that the govt won't let that happen.
Asset holders will be protected for the most part because an unraveling of the housing Ponzi scheme as you call it will send the banks to the wall - even though they're cashed up - freeze credit, and paralyse the economy. Everyone's fucked. In 2008 the US fed reserve protected the banks and by extension asset holders who weren't weak, and the Aus reserve bank will do the same here. And we don't have non-recourse mortgages like the US did. No way the Aus reserve bank will let the majority of asset holders go under. They'll print and print. They'll do anything they can and try any crazy stuff to keep the falls such that the majority of asset holders can take the pain.
So young people might see some discounting, but not enough to justify the higher unemployment and non existent wage growth. Not a reset or mass devaluation like your suggesting.
At any rate, there's no votes in letting housing fall over. Not yet. The majority of voters are homeowners. Maybe in ten years.
Totally agree with everything you just said but I’m still of the opinion that Scummo has no bullets in the gun unless they cry “ herd immunity “ and throw open the immigration floodgates again....Which we all know he is dying to do.
So many chinks in the armour for Scummo though.
AirBnB is illegal. Think about that for a second. All of the thousands of holiday houses around the Oz coastline are supposed to be sitting empty or let to long term rentals.
Thousands of students aren’t here . Thousands of kids moved back in with parents cause they’ve lost their casual jobs. Rents are going.......DOWN .
It’s basically over....but who knows what Hail Mary Scummo will try and pull. It’s his greatest strength and his greatness weakness. Australians will judge him on house prices but his focus on keeping all the balls in the air leaves him liable to miss the fact that the ground is giving way underneath him.
This article tells me just how strong the property market is now even before the repercussions of just what’s going down hit home. The economic shock ain’t going to kick into for a month or so. Like any bankruptcy it happens slowly , slowly ......till it happens very fast.
https://www.realestate.com.au/news/coronavirus-buyers-cheeky-tactics-to…
“ Real estate agents are urging property buyers to be reasonable and not take advantage of vendors who may be vulnerable.....”
Are you fucking kidding me ? The same mob who’d have run down a baby with a school bus to fuck over buyers in the last decade .....think vendor bids at auctions , raised reserves etc etc ....are now pleading mercy. The worm has turned. Sunlight on the vampires.
Shit is over.
I had a bet with Freeride for ten cartons that coastal real estate was going down. Pulled the pin but still know in my heart that it’s houses down, down , down.
PS....particularly liked this line from the article :
“There are a lot of opportunists out there looking for cheap properties, but it’s important to keep in mind that this downturn is not being caused by a financial crisis,” Ms Conisbee said.“
This downturn is not caused by a financial crisis.....like that ameliorates the straight up loss of over a million jobs in a single week . Classic.
Don't agree with anything Billthekid has said about surfing on here, but I reckon he's right regarding the housing market. RBA will do whatever it takes to maintian the haousing market. However I reckon there'll be devaluing, but not in the way you suspect Blowin. The RBA has started quantatative easing which essentially increases money supply. This will have a direct effect on the value of goods, including housing. Not on the cost of goods. I suspect that we'll enter a period of inflation as a result of the extra cash being pumped into the economy. This will see the values of houses fall, but will have have a stabilising effect on prices. Yes, there'll be a drop to some degree in prices, but the value loss will be greater. If inflation pushes up the price of everyday things, the value of the equity we have in our homes reduces. But if this means that less people default on their home loans, then that's probably a good thing. The risk here though is that wages may stagnate for a number of years as the country slowly pull out of the recession (depression?) caused by the mass shutdowns. But then maybe not, if we have lots of inflation, employers earn more from selling and have more cash to pay employees, so maybe wage will rise too. Who knows?? It's all a bit too hard to apply economic theory to what's going on beacause there are so many levers being pulled at once. What I can say is that there'll be some interesting economic analyis of all of this once this is all done and dusted that will likely rewrite modern economic theory.
The money supply is thought to be 7-10x the reported supply. That is, if the clock stopped and I asked 'X" to repay my $1, then 6 other people wouldn't get the $1 owing to them. This "idea" that naturally lead to trading in future values, arbitrage etc has existed since the future value of a tulip crop in Holland was first traded in the 17th century. I'd be surprised if it isn't dated back to creation of currency - BC 350? My point being, as with the GFC in 2009, the system will adjust; as flawed as it may be it won't dissolve into some socialist utopia. The major currency in the world is, and always has been, "hope for the future"; that's what underpins every marketplace on our interconnected planet.
There is good and bad in everythng.
Part of me finds the idea of empty holiday homes in coastal towns obscene when we have a homeless problem plus it prices it out of the next generations reach.
But then mid week off season it means less crowds in the water.
The ponzi scheme if it pops will result in firstly financial armegeddon, runs on banks etc then flow into general society with complete panic, supermarkets stripped bare.
I think we should go with Gaddafi's idea where a home is a right of citizens.
In terms of the lockdown I wish there was a bit of carrot with the stick.
So as regions get to no virus we open up restrictions and as other suburbs regions etc do the same then these areas open up to each other.
I hope this will be how I hope it unfolds so we have a light at the end of the tunnel.
Here's a prediction for you VL - when it comes to crunch time, when it comes to really making a committed choice between saving mostly older lives and the economy, we'll be backing the economy. Because that will be best for MOST people. For older people who won't recover from a severe downturn, and for younger people who need to build a life.
I'm not saying I have the answers re how to implement everything. Yes, that was an overstep. I'm really just interested in giving my arguments on the ethics of the choice.
Im sick of the blind virtue signaling of people staying at home to "save lives" like its all that matters. It's not.
I'm sick of the small minded parochial attitude of people here on the coast who resent others coming down for a surf to preserve their sanity and mental health. LEGALLY doing so. Life is pretty shit in Melbourne. Its great down here. But so many small towners are getting all "us and them" it pisses me off
I'm sick of the pretense that "we're all in this together". Meanwhile apparently only "other people" are panic buying leaving the vulnerable really struggling.
And I sick of the fact that most people cant see anything beyond the hand in front of their face: "Oh, Nan and pop are gonna die....its a tragedy some 85 yo in a nursing home just died....we need to all lose and jobs to stop this happening and its ok cos we're getting job keeper and job seeker and other temporary band aid bullshit" Thats how you think and its plain stupid.
This all started because it pisses me off that swell net is buying into this bullshit by putting a banner up on forecast pages saying "Dont travel To Surf" - even though its completely LEGAL to do so. Swellnet, that's not your job. Stick to surf reports and surf stories.
I already hate the statement that's always been there on swellnet camera pages - "if you're travelling here to surf, please respect the locals" What patronising bullshit. How about the locals respecting the tourists who give them so much income? I'm a local and its pretty obvious that the biggest tools in the water are the locals. Who gives a shit about the tourists - they cant surf anyway.
So today I'm going for a surf. I'm meeting a mate in the water. I told him to drive down here. Vic Local you can walk on the beach and look at the waves you're not surfing and feel superior. And anyone else like you can congratulate yourselves when you lose your jobs and eventually your car and house.
Whatever billythkid. you've come to this debate with a "me first, fuck everyone else" attitude, an "Introduction to Macro Economics" text book, and fuck all commonsense. Your willingness to ignore expert advice is just so typical of modern-day conservatives. But don't worry, you're perfectly qualified for an adviser job in some LNP office and then maybe even become a candidate.
95% of Australians are doing the right thing. Not only are you behaving like a complete arsehole, you're trying to dress your fuckstickery up as something noble.
Telling your mate to drive to the coast? What a couple of complete fuckwits.
I hope you and your mate get booked.
Can’t get booked cos it’s legal to drive down for a surf- check Brett Sutton on Twitter. And it’s legal for me to surf. Check the beach signs. Just like it’s legal to drive to your holiday house
Watch "The Drum" last night Blowin? described your position perfectly.
Right on Billy!
Succinctly summed up.
BTW, If its good enough for Eskimos and Daleks it's good enough for me.
Had a great surf today by myself although i did actually speak to another humanoid on the beach.
Will continue to do so!
When my mother died it was a fukn RELIEF!
People really need to pull their heads out of their arses when they bang on about the sanctity of human life. Clearly haven't experienced enough.
You really need to pull your head out of your arse, views from the.
Go to a cancer ward dickhead. It's filled with kids and young people who have been dealt a shitty hand in life. Many will have a very good chance of a full recovery and happy and healthy life. You do realise that corona virus is putting their lives at risk due to their compromised immune system. There's already been a serious cluster in the oncology department of a Melbourne hospital with a handful of deaths and 100 cancer nurses and oncologists in isolation. That means chemo and radiation treatments are now compromised. That hospital has closed its ward to new patients putting extra pressure on other oncology wards in the state. it's a knife edge situation
You're a fuckwit if you think this pandemic is only causing problems for old demented people.
It's just amazing the excuses arseholes are coming up with to justify their selfish behaviour that is making the spread of this virus more likely.
the more I read his comments and attitude I,m starting to think billy is waiting/ hoping on someone (nan and pa) to die and he gets an inheritance , then he can become what he hates so much. Easier than getting a job and working for it - right billy?
Yep VL - I agree thats sad.
But then- its always sad eh!
Mate, it's simply a matter of being part of the solution or being part of the problem. You can make a shit situation worse, or make it better. Your choice.
Here’s a question if anyone can help me answer it :
Why are wealthy nations predominant in being addled by this disease ? The rankings of affected countries are also a very good ranking of economic clout.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Why is Somalia not overwhelmed ? Sudan ? Bangladesh ? India should really have hundreds of thousands of cases.....why not ?
Lax reportage of cases doesn’t go anywhere near accounting for this discrepancy.
Human movement. Look what happened to Australia’s numbers once we started behaving like 3rd world countries.
Airline crews still flying into Sydney after a few days in the US, exempt from self isolating
Nope.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52086274
I'm also going to close comments on this article, for a couple of reasons - but the main one being that it's reached a staggering 925 comments and is subsequently slowing down the website (our software isn't quite designed for this amount of commentary for one article!).
In any case, the discussion has gone well and truly off track, and as mentioned elsewhere, many comments have gotten way out of hand. Some will be deleted shortly (though I really don't want to have to sift through almost one thousand comments).
So, another timely warning for everyone: please re-read our code of conduct (here). Play the ball, not the man.