House prices
“ So in place of productivity growth it's huge levels of immigration and increasing pressure on infrastructure, services and the environment. ”
Absolutely.
As I’ve banged on about before, Australia’s GDP growth depends almost entirely upon large-scale immigration.
Australia would have had multiple recessions in the past 30 years if not for GDP being propped up by rapid population growth.
The music was good in the last recession, Andy. Perhaps we should try it again.
Yeew, let’s go for it.
Maybe the youth will create something other than that insipid middle of the road pop that gets played on triple J.
GDP is an abominable concept. It measures nothing much more than the rate we turn resources into waste.
Yep Andy, you are onto it - that's the real revolution that needs to happen. All downhill from hottest 100 of all time turning into hottest 100 of this last passing year.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/you-don-t-have-to-h…
Trying to make sense of the above, all I can think of is:
VJ, your “not the Clever Country” comment was bang on.
When in doubt, turn on the immigration tap. 400,000 people a year…. That is total BS. And we’re banging on about the surf being crowded now. More suburbs, more people, more waste, less bush.
Seems not much has changed since Donald Horne's observations in the 1960s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country wrote:
His intent was to comment that, while other industrialised nations created wealth using clever means such as technology and other innovations, Australia did not.
Rather, Australia's economic prosperity was largely derived from its rich natural resources and immigration.
Horne observed that Australia:
Donald Horne wrote:
...is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck.
...showed less enterprise than almost any other prosperous industrial society.
Australia really needs some new ideas than just cramming full of more humans and continuing to be a hole in the ground for China.
So I guess that after 25 years of uninterrupted economic growth, the idea of privatising education, cutting funding into research and development and not giving support to home grown manufacturing is the way to go hasn't quite worked out. Who would have thought?
Also explains the desperation to hold onto the fossil fuel sector no matter what the cost because the whole sham would full in a heap without it's contribution to GDP
Australia is in an incredibly strong position to take advantage of renewable energy. One of the reasons the COALition can get away with their current nonsense is that the private sector can see the opportunity and are investing heavily. Morrison wants it both ways. He wants to do nothing before the election to hang on to the dinosaur vote, while hoping that private investment will make enough progress for Australia to avoid sanctions.
velocityjohnno wrote:
https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/you-don-t-have-to-h…
Trying to make sense of the above, all I can think of is:
Reckon we hit ludicrous speed about a year ago VJ.
Smoke 'em if you've got 'em.
WTF!!! A dressed up shipping container just sold for $2m. World has gone fcking mad!! Gonna be a world of pain when the market crashes.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-kingscliff-137495…
At least they'll be able to hoist it up on to a flatbed truck, and use it as a green room at Splendour In The Grass.
donweather wrote:
WTF!!! A dressed up shipping container just sold for $2m. World has gone fcking mad!! Gonna be a world of pain when the market crashes.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-kingscliff-137495…
How many angles can the photographer capture the living room? I counted eleven.
The price tag might come down to the grass being greener.
“ ... How many angles can the photographer capture the living room? I counted eleven....”
The magic powers of real estate photographers who can turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse without blushing!
thermalben wrote:
At least they'll be able to hoist it up on to a flatbed truck, and use it as a green room at Splendour In The Grass.
Splendour In The Synthetic Grass.
This one had people talking recently.
$3.8 mill in humble ol' Ballina.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-east+ballina-1375…
Would anyone be upset if there were a correction in the order of 20% decrease or more?
An extra million and you don't have to cross a road at Dicky Beach $4.8m.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-qld-dicky+beach-13749…
vicbloke wrote:
Would anyone be upset if there were a correction in the order of 20% decrease or more?
Yeah 30% to restore some sort of normality.
Sprout wrote:
An extra million and you don't have to cross a road at Dicky Beach $4.8m.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-qld-dicky+beach-13749…
Jeez if I had $4.8 mill I wouldn't be living on 607m2.
vicbloke wrote:
Would anyone be upset if there were a correction in the order of 20% decrease or more?
That still puts the Shelley Beach block over $3m.
I am lucky in that we have no mortgage. however, i have two daughters that will look at buying into the market in the next 2 years and I dont have an issue in the market drops 30% or more if it helps them out and the younger generation
That shipping container price is so fucked up. Who are these people spending that coin on that??
I'm certainly no expert in the field, but at a guess - the full block value is apparently worth $1.8m-ish, and a container + fancy fit out is a small cost (maybe a couple of hundred grand?), relative to the expense of a proper house build, as you'd expect on a block like that - that then provides a temporary home that can be rented out for the next five or ten years until the landowners decide to sell, or build properly.
So, $2m seems about reasonable all things considered in this mind-blowingly crazy market we're in right now.
And they'll be able to offload the shipping container to the Bogangar Primary school as a portable learn-to-cook classroom.
That's my hunch, anyway.
thermalben wrote:
Would anyone be upset if there were a correction in the order of 20% decrease or more?That still puts the Shelley Beach block over $3m.
Ok sliding scale :)
30% for those less than $1 mill, up to 60% for properties more than $3 mill.
Government mandated.
Who could possibly complain?
Haha, imagine the response to the announcement of a policy like that!
vicbloke wrote:
Would anyone be upset if there were a correction in the order of 20% decrease or more?
all those FHB's that entered the market late 2020 early 2021 with massive FOMO and gigantic mortgages.
AndyM wrote:
This one had people talking recently.
$3.8 mill in humble ol' Ballina.
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-east+ballina-1375…
Id actually say that’s cheap given the stupid $2m paid in casuarina. At least the Ballina one has ocean views. Bigger house and twice the block size. Bargain at $3.8m if you ask me.
haha my young one is learning the jedi skills of carpentry and will be able to do that fancy vertical timber pieces stuff just as well as on the shipping container, we'll be rich! Comfortably well off, rich I say... etc etc
More seriously, what's to stop young people just doing a breakaway city in the middle of nowhere (plan it a little, you went to uni so you can do better than shanty town) and just pulling the bird at high priced RE. There's a shed load of land away from developed areas. Being young, they would have the future stitched up, set it up with tech for the future, be dynamic and build a world (shoutout to Flannery's idea of a solar city inland, and what BB is saying above about renewables)
Also re: productivity, at some point a first world country has to value add, ie, make things. Might be high end software, might be smelting metals from a solar smelter. Policy is really against this, certainly to start up. RE prices and regulations don't help. Developing a factory as compared to a house makes something that will value-add into the future and create wealth.
Perhaps we'll see vanlyfe becoming little mobile factories or ap developers in the back of a Hiace...
Thats the beauty of renewables VJ. They are already cheap and will become cheaper. Once you have the infrastructure setup its free energy, and in some cases you can even get paid to take power from the grid (this already happens in the EU).
Manufacturing overheads are materials, equipment, man power & energy. We may not be able to compete with China on cost of man power but we will be able to on energy. And as most things become automated, and we dig most of the minerals out of the ground here, it will only be poor policy that stops something like this happening.
Couple mates of mine have set up a small manufacturing facility in a shed in Ballina.
udo wrote:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/brisbane-couple-lose…
OMG lucky there is a happy ending to that story, but someone should still hunt down those sellers and give some payback low life scum bags.
Agree Carpetman, my spinning tools are all sunlight powered. Bring it.
M&D's first house, the seller salvaged every fitting before they took over, no powerpoints! Be very exact with the wording on the contract...
indo-dreaming wrote:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/brisbane-couple-lose…OMG lucky there is a happy ending to that story, but someone should still hunt down those sellers and give some payback low life scum bags.
Karma needs to do a serious number on those absolute pricks, what a shit effort
Dx3 wrote:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/brisbane-couple-lose…OMG lucky there is a happy ending to that story, but someone should still hunt down those sellers and give some payback low life scum bags.
Karma needs to do a serious number on those absolute pricks, what a shit effort
Agreed. I’d hazard a guess that near misses if not real istances like this are pretty common in this market. Overheated sellers market. Overwhelmed banks processing loan applications. Shifting goal posts on mortgage approval conditions from banks. Massive FOMO for FHB trying to get a step in. Pre approval is not worth shit.
The risk on the buyer is extreme.
It’s a complete rort of a system unless your a real estate agent.
indo-dreaming wrote:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/brisbane-couple-lose…OMG lucky there is a happy ending to that story, but someone should still hunt down those sellers and give some payback low life scum bags.
And if likely the house sellers were settling on their house to buy another same day..and the buyer (through Westpacs poor form) default, the sellers are also in a financial cluster #%#UCB of a situation. Hardly the house sellers fault and fully entitled imo to keep what deposit they could to assist in sorting the issues they now have.
Rediculous to call the henchmen out for that. They in turn may have lost their future house purchase deposit for the same reason…. There’s more to a story than calling a posse in on a perceive greedy view.
spookypt wrote:
[quote=indo-dreaming][quote=udo]https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/brisbane-couple-lose…
Nah not copping that Spooky. The buyers asked for a 1 day extension and were ghosted by the sellers, who knowing what was transpiring were already lining up another buyer in the background at a higher price. If the sellers had the sort of reason you're explaining for not extending settlement date, then they could have said that upfront, and a solution been worked through.
They took the money and ran. Pricks.
I don’t know how you can side with the sellers on that one spookypt, that’s such a cnut act.
Well done to westpac though for coming through at the end.
If you think all that’s odd try looking at property law in the UK barring Scotland. Sellers can walk away from sale at anytime for any reason up to day of settlement, often the domino effect impacts on many buyers/sellers up/down the chain.
goofyfoot wrote:
I don’t know how you can side with the sellers on that one spookypt, that’s such a cnut act.
Well done to westpac though for coming through at the end.
The article I read about this was not the Armageddon news.com.au link above it was nine. news which ran the story first without all the ….pleas for extensions and contract dates/timelines etc.
in reading the above article it certainly sounds way more grubby and opportunistic than what I’d read initially.
And yes based on what it indicates a very poor act indeed. No mention of who carried out the conveyancing on that one but a fair finger should point towards them also. But yes I agree very grubby based on the detail showed in that article…
I’ll add that in the article I read westpac we’re not prepared to compensate until nine approached them on the couples behalf so I’d be cautious in flying the wonderful westpac flag also. Despite the spin they were equally as cnutlike as the sellers fwiw.
"Only 15 of the 52 economists who answered the question expected a hike next year"
https://theconversation.com/top-economists-see-no-prolonged-high-inflat…
[quote=bonza]"Only 15 of the 52 economists who answered the question expected a hike next year"
- Phil Lowe tripled down on no rate hike in ‘22 in last couple of days. Make that 15 out of 53.
spookypt wrote:
I don’t know how you can side with the sellers on that one spookypt, that’s such a cnut act.Well done to westpac though for coming through at the end.
The article I read about this was not the Armageddon news.com.au link above it was nine. news which ran the story first without all the ….pleas for extensions and contract dates/timelines etc.
in reading the above article it certainly sounds way more grubby and opportunistic than what I’d read initially.And yes based on what it indicates a very poor act indeed. No mention of who carried out the conveyancing on that one but a fair finger should point towards them also. But yes I agree very grubby based on the detail showed in that article…
I’ll add that in the article I read westpac we’re not prepared to compensate until nine approached them on the couples behalf so I’d be cautious in flying the wonderful westpac flag also. Despite the spin they were equally as cnutlike as the sellers fwiw.
I was very surprised at Westpac’s response as when I was looking to borrow for a home loan they made it an absolute nightmare. Weren’t helpful in any way whatsoever.
So yeah it doesn’t surprise me that they only responded after they were approached by Nine News
House prices - going to go up , down or sideways ?
Opinions and anecdotal stories if you could.
Cheers