that's rather rude.
please do better.

The only dump, happens every Sunday at dawn.

This was a good Jelly dump. No retards running around faith healing or talking in tongues with some lame band playing shit music. Just humans being great. If you gotta believe the unbelievable this is where I’m going.

Optimist wrote:

Another jellylike troll dump.

pardon? my well thought-out reflection of modernity's take on my ancestors' culture and shared stories?

I'm sorry, my good sir, but they are not your tales. They are not anyone's in this free society. You have no dominion over the Jesus of my culture. In fact, you are a plank in the eye of my culture's religious history, and of the Jesus in my culture's past quest for answers.

As an adjunct to this, (and in the context of the above church abandonment post, the burden of our religious history being increasingly foisted onto the local tax-payer, rather than the tax-free churchies organisations who would rather spend their free cash on penny-whistles and moon-pies),

the single thing that detracts from worshipping the human story when I travel, take Iona or Lindisfarne..
when trying to share the spirit of my ancestors and their struggles, questions and burdens..

is the 'living worship community' of Californian blowins who want to bend your ear and sell you made-in-China standing-stone ornaments. Or worse, shards of 'authentic' limestone grubbed from on-site.. way to reduce our timeless human journey to trinket-triviality.

[could you please remove yourself from this otherwise quite good thread if you don't want to converse with subscribers, @Opti? It is your pig-headedness that contributed to it being on the back pages, after all. you have nothing to offer, and that is not for want of me asking (and complimenting you when you share of yourself) over and over and over again. I ain't a gotcha guy. I'm a lovely feller who likes difference. Yet you continue to be just plain rude. Just not working for you, is it old mate..? Maybe keep going fortnightly like last post, just till you work it out..]

I’ll be more succinct. You’re a cockhead, Opti!!

Optimist wrote:

You can be physically dead or spiritually dead..

.....if your both you have a real problem...

The Death of Lazarus

11 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.

3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”

4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”

5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

6 So, when He heard that he was sick, He stayed two more days in the place where He was.

7 Then after this He said to the disciples, “Let us go to Judea again.”

8 The disciples said to Him, “Rabbi, lately the Jews sought to stone You, and are You going there again?”

9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.

10 But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”

11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”

13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”

16 Then Thomas, who is called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with Him.”

I Am the Resurrection and the Life

17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days.

18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about [a]two miles away.

19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house.

21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.

22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Jesus and Death, the Last Enemy

28 And when she had said these things, she went her way and secretly called Mary her sister, saying, “The Teacher has come and is calling for you.”

29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him.

30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the town, but [b]was in the place where Martha met Him.

31 Then the Jews who were with her in the house, and comforting her, when they saw that Mary rose up quickly and went out, followed her, [c]saying, “She is going to the tomb to weep there.”

32 Then, when Mary came where Jesus was, and saw Him, she fell down at His feet, saying to Him, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33 Therefore, when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, He groaned in the spirit and was troubled.

34 And He said, “Where have you laid him?”

They said to Him, “Lord, come and see.”

35 Jesus wept.

36 Then the Jews said, “See how He loved him!”

37 And some of them said, “Could not this Man, who opened the eyes of the blind, also have kept this man from dying?”

Lazarus Raised from the Dead

38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”

Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”

41 Then they took away the stone [d]from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.

42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.”

43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”

44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

You forgot brain dead.

Jesus the True Shepherd..
... “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

Jesus the Good Shepherd
7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

"We are all like sheep that have gone astray....but if we will be still for a while ...and listen for the shepherds voice...we find direction and leadership and eternal safety"....Optimist.

as I have said, the Bible is a human document for all humanity to enjoy/research/revere/dismiss.. no-one has dominion over any aspect of human history.

please, @Opti, when quoting this great historical text of our forefathers, do not sign your moniker as if the words are your own. In your thinking, I would suppose you should think it prideful vanity.. in terms of representing history's page I find it sloppy and inaccurate.

The Isaiah 53:6 you quote is a wunderbar example of evidence that the Bible is man's first communist manifesto.
.

Of Shepherds and Sheep..

Yesterday I went for one of those 'gonna go out whether I should or not' surfs. I took the little Sanctum fish out at beachport, because I have been pondering that sweet potato swellnet post, and the idea of tic-tacking in shoulderless nothing waves has captured my thinking. If I was near the mid-coast it would too, but down here, I'm thinking orwell rocks and easy to access places where you can park and be on a 1' slider (mini-burger) in a few minutes.

On the way home (from a cold, nothing session) I went to the Millicent Show, which was brilliant and heart-warming, people being people at a country show in a small community. And watched the SA Yard Dogs sheep herding sessions.

kelpies doing what kelpies do. owners doing what they do, sheep doing what they do. Tools: dogs, crooks, surfboards, guitars.. that step between the master and the thing to be mastered.

What fun philosophers must have had looking at that, centuries ago.

Creating illuminating and instructive and comforting and inspirational metaphors and allegory representing the master, the tool, the task.. the mind, the hand, the deed..

Wonderful stuff.

basesix.

Your usual incoherent chatter dumped on the words of Christ…
You need to get out more.
My foot notes aren’t important like the scripture but they are my footnotes and I don’t pretend to be the author of John 10….

Charming as ever. I "use knowledge rightly" @Opti, and the Jesus Christ of the Bible is not yours to covet. He is all of humanity's and always will be. Continuing to paraphrase from Proverbs: "from the mouth of the fool spills harsh words, designed to stir up anger". I just got home from a walk in the woods (well, stringybark groves) with my mother. What a wonderful world we live in.. even when life isn't fair and there's a lazy wind whipping through you. Hope you work it out, brother.

Optimist wrote:

Your usual incoherent chatter dumped on the words of Christ…

You need to get out more.

My foot notes aren’t important like the scripture but they are my footnotes and I don’t pretend to be the author of John 10….

He just described his getting out today.
And this isn’t an exclusive words of Christ thread.
Why don’t you just engage instead of dissing.
You still haven’t worked out that that’s why everyone one has the shits with you here. No discussion and certainly no questions of you, answered.
You aren’t converting anyone with your self righteous ignoring of posters.
Rather unchristian of you (as usual)
And your subtle racism on other threads
Rather unchristian of you (as usual)

Anyone who reads your past comments will easily see why you’re not worth engaging in conversation.
But for anyone who seriously has questions or things relevant to the functioning of the universe I’m all ears….love the chat.
And to finish….i did not start this thread…..I don’t own it but I’ll put up my points of belief from over the years.
1) I believe that Jesus Christ is the visible son of the invisible God…..it’s all about scale….
2) I believe the son of God came to earth to save the people He created.
3) The give of grace is for everyone and cannot be bought or earned…
…. it is a gift to those who believe.
4).Most churches and most translations of the bible are good….some more simple than others…..but the message the same.
5) While people are generally good everywhere, churches like the Holy Roman Empire ( Catholic) and other cults should be avoided as they have changed the message to suit themselves even adopting pagan rituals into the church.
This does not mean the Catholic man in the street is bad…or the JW or the. Mormon etc etc….just off track and should fellowship elsewhere.
6) I also believe that the bible is the true word of God brought to us by the people He has entrusted His words to over many generations.
7) All of life’s questions can be answered in this book of many books….
Cheers.

Opti said “Anyone who reads your past comments will easily see why you’re not worth engaging in conversation.”
No numbnuts, because to answer would expose you belonging to a cultish church. The Catholic Church sucks balls but so does your cult.
Hypocrite!!