Climate Change
Craig wrote:
Hurricane Milton is now the 5th strongest on record for the Atlantic basin..
that is one hell of a storm
I agree with you there will always be an ‘out’, in fact it’s pretty obvious it’s a combination of factors, however the action of greed, and its consequences, against the overwhelming scientific evidence warrants far more than ridicule..
What has been happening is criminal
Pop down
Is right , climate change is great so far .
Qlds been getting a lot more swell than I remember in the 70s and 80s.
And apparently The Southern Ocean getting less .
Even if Popdown is a climate. change denier
Even though this is YouTube , there is some information on it .
Since around 1955, birds bodies globally have been shrinking and wing lengths increasing.
It’s all to do with the body not needing to be so big so as to generate the appropriate amount of heat.
Ambient air temperature is increasing, marginally, which is enough, especially in the biological world, everything is interrelated.
Wing length increase is about creating a larger surface area to expel heat.
Many different types of birds are slowly moving to higher altitudes.
Problems then follow, especially in relation to birds voices and calls.
Higher altitudes are cooler, this has an effect on the voice control part of the throat at the lower larynx near the base of the trachea, this is where the syrinx is located , the organ that controls the output of sound.
Repercussions, birds become disoriented amongst their kin, songbird voices are used for mating and more importantly as alarms for predators .
Birds have become easy prey to predators has a result of having to adapt to a whole new niche in a once foreign altitude.
It’s been discussed that birds of a particular species that move to higher altitudes, can possibly, over a long period of time, ultimately speciate into a whole new species because their original biology and ecology has been greatly altered.
This is just one of the results of human induced temperature increases, many don’t seem to think it matters, but it sure does, especially from a birds perspective. AW
meanwhile in NZ the alps just recieved another metre dump, best spring for consistant dumps in many years, polar vortex paying dividends
^^ not to mention fish species are moving south in search of cooler waters …
..and not having floating ice to rest on, for those that relate more to charismatic large-mammals (only a 2 min watch)..
GuySmiley wrote:
^^ not to mention fish species are moving south in search of cooler waters …
GuySmiley. Hi mate. Great point .
I’ve touched on fish migrating south with Freeride76 a few times over the last while.
South Solitary Island is a classic example, NE of Coffs Harbour, for several years now, fish from the tropics are being seen at higher latitudes in the south because the water has warmed and they move with the warmer water column devastating the reefs in that area and simply mow down all the different algae and other organisms. Before we know it Sydney will or already have species of tropical fish present.
I’ve seen footage of the reefs at SS Islands after the tropical fish move through, totally denuded of life.
Guy, correct, species that like cold water like in the Southern Ocean are moving further south according to a recent researcher who presented at our field naturalist club, she works on that incredible purpose built CSIRO ship, Investigator. AW
basesix, that was a worthwhile but thoroughly depressing 2 minutes
Jeez , it made me feel so so fucking shit and sad seeing that and I thought I kept abreast on a few things, thanks basesix for educating me in the worst real way
They are so so thin as well and the tusks seem underdeveloped if fully mature adults, heartbreaking for me
Yeah that vision is heart breaking.
Shifting back to Milton, it still astounds me that they send planes into these hurricanes..
Bumpy ride into Hurricane #Milton on @NOAA WP-3D Orion #NOAA43 "Miss Piggy" to collect data to help improve the forecast and support hurricane research.
— NOAA Aircraft Operations Center (@NOAA_HurrHunter) October 8, 2024
Visit https://t.co/3phpgKNx0q for the latest forecasts and advisories
Visit https://t.co/UoRa967zK0 for information that you… pic.twitter.com/ezmXu2Zqta
And a little reality check..
Upper ocean heat content in the Atlantic during the last 66 years... pic.twitter.com/17VS0MeYcT
— Ben Noll (@BenNollWeather) October 8, 2024
stunet wrote:
..when do we get to say I told you so?Never.
Firstly, it'll never be overwhelmingly proven, there'll always be an 'out' of some sort, such is the nature of Earth's climate, and secondly, if you want to win the battle of hearts and minds you don't do it by ridiculing people.
The battle is already lost. It’s already too late. Just look at the momentum of this ship, there is no turning it back in time. The current worlds vibe and unrest all stems from this source, that we are fucking up pretty much everything
There are billions of people that are still willing to fight the elements to survive Shoredump .
Humans have shown Mother Earth we are the Most adaptable Species She has EVER produced .
She thinks that's cool .
We flourished super fast , when we found out how to use Fossil Fuels .
Too fast .
We have got ourselves into a pickle and will have to adapt , as humans do .
Humanity is flowing out of Florida , good luck to them all !
They will come flooding back and will clean up the Mess , Bon Chance with that .
"There are billions of people that are still willing to fight the elements to survive."
This does not mean we must keep making it harder to do so.
And billions more that don’t think we need to. There’s your momentum
Humans got addicted to Generating Power , Blackers .
It made it much Easier to survive and our numbers went off the charts .
It became our way of Life .
After a 100 years plus of good times , the addiction is causing big problems .
Lucky we have Nuclear Fusion coming .
We can have unlimited Energy and won't have to go through terrible withdrawal symptoms trying to Stop an addiction .
Just last week Trump called climate change the biggest hoax of our times, and that the planet is getting cooler not warmer.
He might soon be the leader of the free world, and his millions of followers would blindly follow him off a cliff.
Crazy..
TORNADO IN WELLINGTON:
— Kate Hussey (@katehussey8) October 9, 2024
Video a friend sent to me of a confirmed tornado moving through Wellington on Southern Blvd ahead of #HurricaneMilton.
SEEK SHELTER NOW!!! pic.twitter.com/17rAfjN6BE
And one of the locations impacted..
St Lucie County #Florida Sheriff’s Office struck by tornado ahead of #HurricaneMilton #HurricaneMilton2024 pic.twitter.com/SpmfgAVjow
— William E. Lewis, Jr. - Bill Lewis (@4BillLewis) October 9, 2024
keep the info and analysis coming, Craig. Hope people are ok, and devastation is minimal, but the inundation and power of this will be like watching godzilla step out of the gulf of mexico and shake-off before heading off to bermuda.
Digressing slightly from Milton, this year was the 2nd lowest on record for sea ice extent across Antarctica (2023 was the lowest)..
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/event-tracker/2024-antarctic-sea-…
So yeah this one freaks me out tbh
This is on top of CO2, the measured warming by the scientific community, and even my pet geomagnetic interest.
What's the possibility we are going through a second termination event (the last being the Younger Dryas, 12,000 years ago), from the top of an interglacial warm period? It's absolutely nuts to consider.
Is it one of the feedback loops to CO2, or is it something that happens as part of the current ice age as he shows from the historical review?
Johan Rockström offers a snap shot of how the planet is changing:
stunet wrote:
..when do we get to say I told you so?Never.
Firstly, it'll never be overwhelmingly proven, there'll always be an 'out' of some sort, such is the nature of Earth's climate, and secondly, if you want to win the battle of hearts and minds you don't do it by ridiculing people.
Agree with "never"... well, mostly. The point at which 95% of people accept it is the point at which so much shit will have gone wrong and be going wrong, it'll be pointless to say it. We'll all have bigger things to worry about.
As for the out...maybe I misunderstood you Stu, but it's not really about the planet/climate providing an out. I recall this lines from Naomi Oreskes:
"Doubt-mongering also works because we think science is about facts - cold, hard, definite facts. If someone tells us that things are uncertain, think that means that the science is muddled. This is a mistake. There are always uncertainties in any live science, because science is a process of discovery.
Doubt is crucial to science - in the version we call curiosity or healthy skepticism, it drives science forward - but it also makes science vulnerable to misrepresentation, because is is easy to take uncertainties out of context and create the impression that everything is unresolved."
mowgli wrote:
..when do we get to say I told you so?Never.
Firstly, it'll never be overwhelmingly proven, there'll always be an 'out' of some sort, such is the nature of Earth's climate, and secondly, if you want to win the battle of hearts and minds you don't do it by ridiculing people.
Agree with "never"... well, mostly. The point at which 95% of people accept it is the point at which so much shit will have gone wrong and be going wrong, it'll be pointless to say it. We'll all have bigger things to worry about.
As for the out...maybe I misunderstood you Stu, but it's not really about the planet/climate providing an out. I recall this lines from Naomi Oreskes:
"Doubt-mongering also works because we think science is about facts - cold, hard, definite facts. If someone tells us that things are uncertain, think that means that the science is muddled. This is a mistake. There are always uncertainties in any live science, because science is a process of discovery.
Doubt is crucial to science - in the version we call curiosity or healthy skepticism, it drives science forward - but it also makes science vulnerable to misrepresentation, because is is easy to take uncertainties out of context and create the impression that everything is unresolved."
Mowgli. Hi, hope ya well.
Can you elucidate your comments please.
Are you referring to the comment of ‘never’ or are you referring to ‘climate change’ in general ?
Thanks
I’m a bit interested. AW
velocityjohnno wrote:
Johan Rockström offers a snap shot of how the planet is changing:
I saw watched this one a few weeks ago.
The greatest flaw of the IPCC process is that it does not adequately incorporate tipping points, feedback loops and runaway climate change. It's a not a mistake on their part, it's intentional. These tipping points could be next year or next century... or behind us. You don't really here about it unless you move in/are tapped into certain communities, but there is growing murmurings and unease amongst climate scientists, ecologists etc. that the latter may be there case, or that at the very least we're in the midst of one.
The rapid melting of permafrost in the high latitudes coupled with falling Arctic summer ice extent being the prime candidate (two separate but adjacent systems that could influence each other due to their proximity).
The second greatest flaw in the IPCC process is of course perverse in-built optimism. I don't know how many times they can put out a "we think the middle path is the most likely" type statement only to see that we continue to do much worse.
If you think things are already starting to look bad, wait until the 2040s.... What I'm hearing is that you can basically move whatever problems were projected for the 2070-2100 window forward 30 years.
GOOD TIMES.
It’s already too late, and pointless.
Dark humour is all I have left on the subject..
mowgli wrote:
Johan Rockström offers a snap shot of how the planet is changing:I saw watched this one a few weeks ago.
The greatest flaw of the IPCC process is that it does not adequately incorporate tipping points, feedback loops and runaway climate change. It's a not a mistake on their part, it's intentional. These tipping points could be next year or next century... or behind us. You don't really here about it unless you move in/are tapped into certain communities, but there is growing murmurings and unease amongst climate scientists, ecologists etc. that the latter may be there case, or that at the very least we're in the midst of one.
The rapid melting of permafrost in the high latitudes coupled with falling Arctic summer ice extent being the prime candidate (two separate but adjacent systems that could influence each other due to their proximity).
The second greatest flaw in the IPCC process is of course perverse in-built optimism. I don't know how many times they can put out a "we think the middle path is the most likely" type statement only to see that we continue to do much worse.
If you think things are already starting to look bad, wait until the 2040s.... What I'm hearing is that you can basically move whatever problems were projected for the 2070-2100 window forward 30 years.
GOOD TIMES.
Mowgli. Hi.
The coastal fringe shoreline on the northern parts of the Antarctic Shelf look a lot like St.Andrews Golf Links at present.
An abundance of green vegetation, mostly grasses, producing an everlasting verdant hue.
Late last year my brother stood on that shoreline, he was in dismay.
I’m very worried. AW
- the impact of war on the environment seems to be a factor that is continually ignored when considering climate change etc
& for all the progress made recently to enhance sustainability and harness alternate fuel/energy sources, we are still maintaining and increasing weapons production output.
The major western governments implementing and encouraging climate awareness and protection are the same ppl escalating prolonged conflicts and contributing to the assured destruction of habitats. The monetary benefits and material rewards of the manufacture and supply of weaponry seem to cancel out any genuine concern for climate change.
If we had the nuts to actually implement any serious undertakings to challenge the apparent human induced climate ‘crisis’ …maybe we’d start by not continually blowing the fuck out of places, supplying stuff to others so they can blow the fuck outta other people’s places …and attempt, instead, to consciously slow down our dependence on war as a necessity ;)
- we could then just save enough trees to sustainably make sharp lil wooden spears and engage in the age old human ritual of ‘be really concerned about shit while going around creating the bad shit that causes shit that concerns us…’
;);)
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/9/11/arms-manufac…
Don't worry , be happy .
Humans well be humans .
We are a living in an Experiment and the World is the Lab .
We are one of a kind and harnessed energy , wood , whales , coal , oil .... and became addicted to the things we could do with it .
Like building surfboards and weapons , as humans love to fight and have fun .
The Tipping Point for Human Production of CO2 IS in the past and our Climate is Changing in new ways .
I read last week that Solar Energy , when it the Sun shines is the Cheapest Form of Energy ,
The USA and China are in a Race for Fusion Energy , both spending Equal Gazillions on the CO2 and Waste Free Energy .
Humans can't B weened Off Energy imho .
It's not in our Nature , unfortunately .
Mother Earth is with US and I don't believe 4 ONE second , that she will let Our Actions , that She helped Create , cause a Climate Tipping Point , that will wipe out humans .
That would be a silly experiment .
We will adapt 2 whatever Changes are thrown at us and can rebuild and move Stuff .
Mother Earth is terribly worried WE will Stuff Up our own Lives , on our Own .
She will have NO part , in the Tragic Affair .
Jelly Flater wrote:
- the impact of war on the environment seems to be a factor that is continually ignored when considering climate change etc
& for all the progress made recently to enhance sustainability and harness alternate fuel/energy sources, we are still maintaining and increasing weapons production output.
The major western governments implementing and encouraging climate awareness and protection are the same ppl escalating prolonged conflicts and contributing to the assured destruction of habitats. The monetary benefits and material rewards of the manufacture and supply of weaponry seem to cancel out any genuine concern for climate change.
If we had the nuts to actually implement any serious undertakings to challenge the apparent human induced climate ‘crisis’ …maybe we’d start by not continually blowing the fuck out of places, supplying stuff to others so they can blow the fuck outta other people’s places …and attempt, instead, to consciously slow down our dependence on war as a necessity ;)
- we could then just save enough trees to sustainably make sharp lil wooden spears and engage in the age old human ritual of ‘be really concerned about shit while going around creating the bad shit that causes shit that concerns us…’
;);)
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/9/11/arms-manufac…
JellyFlater. Hi pal.
Yes, you are totally correct.
Even here at home we’ve been sucked in and somehow we’ve managed to AUKUStrate and be part of the continuum of producing , at an enormous cost, more weapons of mass destruction.
I’d like to know how many innocent people have been killed by wars in the last 24 months, we sure put a low value on human lives these days, AW
AlfredWallace wrote:
..when do we get to say I told you so?Never.
Firstly, it'll never be overwhelmingly proven, there'll always be an 'out' of some sort, such is the nature of Earth's climate, and secondly, if you want to win the battle of hearts and minds you don't do it by ridiculing people.
Agree with "never"... well, mostly. The point at which 95% of people accept it is the point at which so much shit will have gone wrong and be going wrong, it'll be pointless to say it. We'll all have bigger things to worry about.
As for the out...maybe I misunderstood you Stu, but it's not really about the planet/climate providing an out. I recall this lines from Naomi Oreskes:
"Doubt-mongering also works because we think science is about facts - cold, hard, definite facts. If someone tells us that things are uncertain, think that means that the science is muddled. This is a mistake. There are always uncertainties in any live science, because science is a process of discovery.
Doubt is crucial to science - in the version we call curiosity or healthy skepticism, it drives science forward - but it also makes science vulnerable to misrepresentation, because is is easy to take uncertainties out of context and create the impression that everything is unresolved."
Mowgli. Hi, hope ya well.
Can you elucidate your comments please.
Are you referring to the comment of ‘never’ or are you referring to ‘climate change’ in general ?
Thanks
I’m a bit interested. AW
Both bits of Stu's comments. I agree with 'never' - i.e., a good time to say "I told you so".
But the bit about him just seemingly (the dangers of text based convos!) to lay the "fault" of the out at the feet of the climate/planet itself seemed bizarre and IMO the wrong way to think about it.
But maybe I'm just jumping at online boogeys that aren't there.
AlfredWallace wrote:
Johan Rockström offers a snap shot of how the planet is changing:I saw watched this one a few weeks ago.
The greatest flaw of the IPCC process is that it does not adequately incorporate tipping points, feedback loops and runaway climate change. It's a not a mistake on their part, it's intentional. These tipping points could be next year or next century... or behind us. You don't really here about it unless you move in/are tapped into certain communities, but there is growing murmurings and unease amongst climate scientists, ecologists etc. that the latter may be there case, or that at the very least we're in the midst of one.
The rapid melting of permafrost in the high latitudes coupled with falling Arctic summer ice extent being the prime candidate (two separate but adjacent systems that could influence each other due to their proximity).
The second greatest flaw in the IPCC process is of course perverse in-built optimism. I don't know how many times they can put out a "we think the middle path is the most likely" type statement only to see that we continue to do much worse.
If you think things are already starting to look bad, wait until the 2040s.... What I'm hearing is that you can basically move whatever problems were projected for the 2070-2100 window forward 30 years.
GOOD TIMES.
Mowgli. Hi.
The coastal fringe shoreline on the northern parts of the Antarctic Shelf look a lot like St.Andrews Golf Links at present.
An abundance of green vegetation, mostly grasses, producing an everlasting verdant hue.Late last year my brother stood on that shoreline, he was in dismay.
I’m very worried. AW
I think there's always been sections along the Antarctic continent that have had green ground coverage during summers...sparsely though... but yes, I imagine the areas turning green during the summer are probably expanding.
AlfredWallace wrote:
- the impact of war on the environment seems to be a factor that is continually ignored when considering climate change etc& for all the progress made recently to enhance sustainability and harness alternate fuel/energy sources, we are still maintaining and increasing weapons production output.
The major western governments implementing and encouraging climate awareness and protection are the same ppl escalating prolonged conflicts and contributing to the assured destruction of habitats. The monetary benefits and material rewards of the manufacture and supply of weaponry seem to cancel out any genuine concern for climate change.
If we had the nuts to actually implement any serious undertakings to challenge the apparent human induced climate ‘crisis’ …maybe we’d start by not continually blowing the fuck out of places, supplying stuff to others so they can blow the fuck outta other people’s places …and attempt, instead, to consciously slow down our dependence on war as a necessity ;)
- we could then just save enough trees to sustainably make sharp lil wooden spears and engage in the age old human ritual of ‘be really concerned about shit while going around creating the bad shit that causes shit that concerns us…’
;);)
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/9/11/arms-manufac…
JellyFlater. Hi pal.
Yes, you are totally correct.
Even here at home we’ve been sucked in and somehow we’ve managed to AUKUStrate and be part of the continuum of producing , at an enormous cost, more weapons of mass destruction.
I’d like to know how many innocent people have been killed by wars in the last 24 months, we sure put a low value on human lives these days, AW
The greatest risk posed by climate change isn't one most people tend to think of when the topic comes up.
It's nuclear holocaust caused by resource confrontation and mass migration (will be one and the same really). It's the one the Pentagon and those that work at the Climate/NatSec nexus are most concerned about.
So yeah, you think a lot of people have died recently... but if it really goes tits up....
shoredump wrote:
It’s already too late, and pointless.
Dark humour is all I have left on the subject..
It might not be. But we're close.
At the risk of a moderator slap down... the only way to change things is to change who is sitting in the seats of power.
While the NewsCorp and Fairfax media alternate between making fun of and hyperventilating about the so called "Teals", those same men and women (the independents) have already managed to achieve far more than you would otherwise thing when it comes to a raft of issues, including climate change.
Most people aren't aware, but if you think there was a big wave of independents trying to get up in 2022, just you wait.... this next election there is a literal fucken tsunami coming. And they're all trying to unseat the...what's the word? cunts... that won't do anything about climate change.... including Captain Potato Head himself.
If you want to see if there's one in your Federal electorate that you can get behind, check out this link: https://www.communityindependentsproject.org/community-electorate-groups
If there's not one in your area, you can always support one of the groups that are already up in running. There two seats being targetted up here on the Sunshine Coast, one of which is currently held Mr Nuclear Energy / Wannabe-ScoMo....
It's mostly Lib/Nat seats being targetted, with some ALP ones too. Though the Greens are going hard like overcooked tempeh for those. If the number of "Teals" (which is a media term btw), doubles at the next election... and let's say the Greens can nab one of those other Brisbane seats they came close to getting in 2022... then you can finally kiss the political duopoly goodbye! They'll still be around, but they'll never be able to govern with an outright majority again. And given ALP is more closely aligned with those independents ideologically, there's a pretty safe bet to be made that the madness that's infected the Liberals ever since the Mad Monk knifed Turnbull will be washed out.
Well said Mowgli .
A very interesting way of looking at it , a holocaust caused " Resource confrontation and mass migration " .
It makes me wonder if it's time Australia did things differently .
According to an article I read last week Australia has 1200 years of Coal , 28% of the Worlds Uranium , Exports 20% of the Worlds gas . produces 47% of the worlds Lithium . is the 6th largest producer of Copper . 5th largest producer of Nickel and produces 56% of the Worlds Iron Ore .
We COULD do a LOT more !
We could have been a Superpower in Steel Production , Electronics and Engineering .
Maybe we can help save the world , by defusing a Nuclear War , by making Resources more plentiful ?
A big job 4 a little population .
Could've been a superpower... but the NeoCons didn't want that. If we start making things further up the value chain, then the likes of POSCO and others in South Korea and Japan are going to get stroppy with us and go complain to Uncle Sam... and you know what happens when Uncle Sam has to get involved in Aussie politics.... you get replaced by Julia Gillard...
We're going to have to do something, because China has been making moves to secure a lot of those resources and more in Africa... but it's ok if that doesn't pan out... because their long term plan of having the Russian Empire shit the bed completely coupled with a warming climate means they'll basically seek to quadruple/quintuple the size of the Chinese Empire by invading Eastern Russia and claiming everything east of the Angara and Yanesei Rivers. They'll have all the water, timber and mineral resources they could need. It'll also give them Lake Baikal (the deepest in the world) which, via those two rivers, gives them a big fat waterway connecting them from Central Asia all the way to the Arctic.... they'll have open access to the Pacific, the Bering Sea, be able to surround Japan and the Koreas... So the US and China are happy to see Russia fall a part...then when China makes its move, the US will seek to curtail that (if China gets that' big, they will be too big to take on)... Uncle Sam will never willingly give up his hegemony.
Russia has been more afraid of China and for longer than the US... they really only become true adversaries with the latter in the 1900s...whereas the Russo/Sino thang goes bank hundreds of years.
But who knows... climate change is going to through massive barrage of spanners into many plans.
Because everybody knows military folks are raging tree hugger lefties..
Australian Security Leaders Climate Group's latest report says the threat is so serious now that an "emergency mobilisation" is needed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-08/australian-security-leaders-clim…
If Biff didn’t get his hands on the sports almanac, this is how we would be living
That is excellent SD , Indonesia could really do with this . A German company put a tender in to run serangan dump and promised that they could get rid of the waste problem and convert it into electricity . They never got the contract .
.