Interesting stuff
"...the personal responsibility thing unfortunately is total bullsh!t."
Yeah well I'm still gonna punch on with pearl divers to do my bit.
Ok, here it is so there’s no more dickheads claiming ambiguity:
I think that AGW is real.
I think that humans will need to seriously alter their attitudes to entitlements on what they can gleam from the planet and what acts they can perform.
I think that every person, on every level , needs to contribute and that the claim that a person can continue to live their full consumer lifestyle whilst mitigating that impact with a vote or a public opinion is utter, utter fantasy bullshit.
I think that not every abnormal weather event is the result of AGW. Extraordinarily events have always happened and always will. Sure , say that weather events are more likely to be radical and unpredictable and I’ll agree. Tell me that every large storm or radical situation is due to climate change and I’ll laugh in your face.
I think that people, governments and international institutions will misuse the moral authority of AGW to implement control of society.
I think that AGW goes way beyond just carbon emissions. Urban heatsoaks , mass cleafelling and other such things are also altering our climate.
I don’t think there’s a future in the finger pointing and blame allocation going on . We all created this mess, we are all culpable. I think that litigation in the name of AGW will be a shitfight. None of us are guilt free.
I think that the science is onto the fact that AGW is occurring and it will help to guide our path towards the future , but I think that the predictive modelling is extremely fallible. And for every previous prediction currently coming true , there have been just as many that are completely wrong. Humans cannot predict climate and climactic conditions years into future with any accuracy.
I think that if you take that last point to mean you can continue to call me a non - believer, climate denier , Scomo loving whatever.....then you need to take a step back and realise that you are becoming irrational.
Thanks Blowin. Not sure about that part re implementing control of society but otherwise agree.
While I've always tried to be conscious of the impact I make, the last couple of months have given me a kick up the bum. Firstly around food and trying to eat less meat and going more plant based.
You don't have to totally change your way of life, just being more conscious and changing parts of it will make a difference. Air travel will be the hard one but looks like it might have to be done/restricted.
the argument was always poorly framed imo, instead of a fight against climate change, it should have been a fight against pollution, way easier to sell & more chance of a consensus and therefore better outcome
How many flights per year can the soon to be 10 billion earthlings take to keep within the boundaries you’re suggesting?
Outline what lifestyle changes 10 billion earthlings can undertake to save this situation, if true. (I want examples that get us over the line, not just a minor drop in output)
The only way we can actually win this battle is a massive shift in world wide energy use and a massive shift in world wide population control law. The only way that will happen is with radical policy change, world wide
Shoredump, less pets, eat less red meat, try and limit flying. Smaller and more economical/electronic cars.
Check the surfcams for a surf check instead of driving ;)
"the argument was always poorly framed imo, instead of a fight against climate change, it should have been a fight against pollution, way easier to sell & more chance of a consensus and therefore better outcome"
ain't that the truth!
that's what the argument used to be, back when there actually seemed to be 'consensus'
We are 10 years deep in world wide consciousness on personal limits, it’s not working. We need the hand of authority
I think people are tired as fuck of being told what to do by a bunch off people who are doing the exact opposite
this applies to the professional class of all descriptions across the globe
not least does it undermine your argument, if just displays a pathetic lack of commitment. it also gives the impression that, it is the plebs who will do all the heavy lifting, whilst the professional class will continue with their status quo lifestyles that are the problem, just with a tokenistic tax on top
not a real convincing argument
whilst this guy is bagging hollywood stars for said behaviours, I think the sentiment applies at a local level too
people are sick and tired of lip service, and dare I say it, hollow virtue signalling
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ricky-gervais-teaches-hollywood…
kudos to washington post for actually posting the article, the rest of their VS media mates just tried to tear ricky down
Small diversion...which is likely to become a big one, it's a forum after all.
Lots of demographers saying we'll never get to ten billion. Few even saying we wont get to nine, as the Earth's population increasingly moves to the cities. Think it was 2007 when we tipped beyond halfway - more people in cities than rural - and that brings a decline in births because kids cost a lot to raise in cities plus other motherhood work issues that have been well documented.
Anyway, from memory, all things equal and no immigration/emigration, women have to give birth to 2.1 bubs for a country to sustain its population and many countries are well under that now.
Nine nillion is still a big number - ha! - but the point is that population isn't a runaway train.
It could be curbed here, but it wont ever be because we don't have the tax base to support ageing Boomers for whom free tertiary education and middle-class welfare wasn't enough, they now want to live forever and receive franking credits all the way.
Anyhoo, small diversion, carry on.
But before I go, in full Johnny Farnham voice, "Hello to all the Boomers out there!"
Bloody Boomers! They get all that...and assisted dying when the time comes. Their grandkids get Soylent Green!
Anyone on here heard of, let alone read, Malthus?
(Strap yourselves in...)
the mood is very malthusian
hence the already strapping in going on...
Haven't read him, had heard the name...
Judging from his wikipedia page, he came up with the idea that populations will grow to use all available resources to the point of distress? (kinda reminds of Dilbert's law of incompetence).
10 billion, with more and more wanting western middle class lifestyles, which apparently it is a moral sin to try and steer away from, because we have/had it.
Is there a way that can be decoupled from carbon usage?
From destroying biodiversity/habitat etc etc?
Serious questions.
George Monbiot seems to think lab food can do it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/08/lab-grown-food-de…
Maybe he's right.
I walked down the point this morning in the half light and walked home before sunrise with two juvey big eye trevally. Local food for lunch.
Fucked if I want to be lab rat in the city, but maybe that is the future.
Blowin, putting aside my piss taking for a moment and following up on your post written to clarify for us dickheads...
One thing you wrote:
"Tell me that *every* large storm or radical situation is due to climate change and I’ll laugh in your face."
How you behave on these forums:
"Tell me that *any* large storm or radical situation is due to climate change and I’ll laugh in your face."
And that's why I don't believe you seriously accept climate science and that, as stu pointed out, you run with the denier's playbook.
Absolutely it can be done I think freeride. And it has to be. Just saying we've got too many people and shrugging our shoulders is a lazy way out. Avoiding the solutions indo implores us to reach for.
The education and empowerment of women is the only way to reduce the population ethically and that takes generations. It's a worthy effort for many reasons but until then, we'll probably need to eat lab food if we can't land a trevally.
And insects. We'll need to eat more of them. And those little bastards are full of essential fatty acids.
I like the cricket powders.
Looked into growing crickets, but for some reason I have a harder time killing crickets than fish.
VB ....Yeah , sorry mate.
The science is in : I officially don’t care what you choose to believe or not believe .
I’ve said my piece , nailed my colours to the mast . If you want to misinterpret it then there’s not much I can do about it.
So , you going to go vegetarian for this planet or is your contribution limited to accusing others of apostasy ?
I already told you I'm working my way through the nation's pearl divers, one by one.
At least the ones you've left for me anyway.
Crickets seem to have an amazing amount of awareness. Like a mantis when it turns its head to watch you.
The only way out of this mess is cultural reform.
The government is owned by vested interests. They can’t legislate our way out of this , people need to assert their individual power in the form of :
1/Reducing their consumption.
2/ Organised and collective targeting of government/ corporations which refuse to reform ( consumer unionism ) . Democracy is basically dead. The impact of each vote is now so diluted and misappropriated by the political system that the act is rapidly losing relevance.
The neoliberalistic system which has overtaken our society can only be defeated using the one tool it is powerless to resist ....the power of the dollar. Rather than affecting change through collective power at the ballot box , the people must now affect change through collective power at the checkout.
We don’t want coal ? We boycott energy companies in the form of rolling strikes . Just as workers withheld their labour , we must now withhold our patronage of corporations. Change will be swift when corporations are bleeding millions of dollars per day as a consequence of inaction.
3/ Rejection of the divisive focus on the controversial subject of AGW and focus on overall planetary sustainability. This will bring people together to work towards an indisputed global positive, rather than diluting collective effort by focusing on only one aspect ( climate change ) .
Sustainability of the planet based on current projection of consumption is deleterious in many more ways than just climate variation. Barren oceans , destroyed farmland , food shortages, mental health issues from poor lifestyles , water scarcity.....each of these issues alone could jeopardise humanity without taking into account the effects of climate change. AGW is only a single consequence of the mismanagement of the planet.
The cultural reform needs to be more holistic than just focused on AGW. This forum alone demonstrates the needless division fomented by reducing such a broadscale and wholeheartedly embraced concept as holistic global sustainability into a single thread of focus which is not obvious to the naked eye and so patently refutable .
People can dispute sea level rise predictions, but they can’t dispute overfishing , pollution levels and deforestation. The consequences of each are not seperate issues as they all result in habitat ruination. So why attack the issue from such a weak position ?
"Let's never fight again."
Am I the only one who got that.
Very subtle Stu.
I think its Stu's way of saying subtly please keep it all civil guys
This is for you Steve.
"I gave up fishing after a few years, because I found my heart too often aching for the beauty and courage of the things I caught" Arthur Grimble "A Pattern of Islands".
I worked a few summers decking for a charter in The Rip and southern Port Phillip Bay and used to come home from a charter with a bag of fish but feeling melancholy. Reading that book and especially that line crystalized what I was feeling. I still eat them but I can't catch and kill them anymore.
The killing of fish is totally different when it’s not purely to feed yourself, relatives and maybe a tiny bit for close friends. Perhaps the odd fillet in exchange for services rendered.
Wholesale or industrial fishing does my head in rapidly. There’s an essential element of spiritual appreciation lacking and it just feels like murder and pillage.
I love fishing, but i only keep what i can eat, even if i can bag out my legal limit, i don't like to even freeze too much, id rather have a good excuse to go catch some fresh fish instead.
my pact is I'll catch and kill what I can to feed my family while I'm alive and then when I'm dead I'll chuck my body back in the ocean and they can eat me.
99% of the fish I catch are within 10 k's of the house.
it's just got to be better than eating soybeans.
I hate fishing but I like the idea of hunting and feeding my family.
Anyone got any tips?
hunting what?
be easy enough to catch pigeons.
start with chooks, eggs are the best deal going around.
used to pro fish but got sick of killing for the sake of money....watching the life force go from a living things eyes as you stick the knife in sucks.........more into watching the beauty of it all these days.
@stunet
I know everyone is different, but just out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about fishing?
Do you find it boring?...is it the smell? or the killing thing?
For me i just love the ocean, love the coast, the water the smell, obviously id much prefer catching fish, but even if i don't i don't feel like its wasted time, for me fishing is very comparable to surfing.
You watch the conditions swell, wind, tide waiting for ideal windows, then you go looking for that perfect wave or prized fish, for both they can normally only be found in a specific spot and for both that spot changes day to day even hour to hour.
You rarely get either the perfect wave or that prized fish but just the whole journey and adventure ends up being as important as the waves or fish you catch.
Only thing i don't like about fishing as i get older is having stinky fish fingers after, i guess im getting soft..
I've got fantastic memories of splitting the house well before sunrise with the old boy, hiking trails in the dark, casting off rocks lashed with whitewash, giving the thumbs up once a wave smashed against it, and if all that sounds evocative it's because it is. I loved all that.
But then I couldn't get my head around, one, the killing, I used to feel bad and my old man wasn't the kind to...discuss the matter at hand, and two, once I reached double digits all I wanted to do was surf in the mornings.
I'd still go occasionally but the smell, the fish guts, the frustration, cold fingers trying to tie a blood knot in a stiff southerly, the snags, all that shit, just put me off. I loved the coast, loved my Dad, but I never connected with the essence of fishing.
I keep thinking I should give it another go, I've got rods in the sheds, but I look at them and they don't move me in any particular way.
All that, plus I've got no idea when I'd find the time.
Time's not an issue for me.
my pre-dawn sessions are usually less than half an hour long.
I've lost count of the number of times I'm out on the rock platform, hook up first cast and I'm home before the coffee in the mug is even drunk.
I keep rods in the car. If I'm surfing and see a boil up I go catch a tailor or two, stash 'em in a rock pool and keep surfing.
If I see fish feeding and I can, I catch them.
When that food goes on the table and you know you are feeding your family about the freshest, healthiest source of protein on earth, it's a very special level of satisfaction. It makes a good day on the ocean surfing even more special because now there is a dividend the whole family benefits from.
Also something about eating, literally digesting the same food source from where you live, play, surf.
It's another level of connection to place.
Without any spiritual woo, you are connected at a cellular level.
How awesome is this !?!?!
When was the last time you heard a US President give a speech which sounded like this ? Trump speaking to Iran.
"We want you to have a future and a great future, one that you deserve, one of prosperity at home in harmony with the nations of the world. The United States is ready to embrace peace with all who seek it."
Despite every provocation and the relentless urging of the ever present US war hawks and the near omnipotent Military Industrial Complex , Trump has managed to lead the US into the longest stretch of relative peace in many decades.
Freeride that was a very good summation of it. In Stow's "To the Islands" the protagonist Herriot watches the blackfellas kill an animal for food iirc, and they say a prayer, something along the lines of "you are beautiful and we are sorry to end your life, but this keeps us living," and they celebrate the animal. Something a bit more religious, a bit more spiritual.
I find the killing tough. The fish are beautiful and I'm not the fisherman my brother is. But if I have to, I'll do it. Hunting with a rifle, the thrill of the chase - it's bookended by the killing of the animal. Would much rather target coke cans. And if off the crown land, the animal might be filled with worms.
Good posts Blowin, thurs 10:57 was spot on. I have one real concern - CO2 correlates to the extreme weather we are seeing, enabling it. Despite Australia reducing its coal consumption 20% (I posted link in daily good news thread, it's happening) there are over 1000 new coal fired power plants building and on the drawing board. These are not going to be stopped. Given this is happening, the only response left is to prepare for total weather/climate chaos?
Interesting discussion above.
I've always taught my kids to respect anything that has died/been killed for you to eat and only take what you need. As little waste as possible. With fish, it will be the fillets, wings, cheeks and where possible, the head and bones for soup and/or stock.
Facto , it’s very hard for you to appear as anything but a little bitch if you keep acting like a little bitch. Post up whatever link to whoever has tickled your fancy on the day , you’ll never be them , their quotes and works aren’t yours.
All you’ve got to add to any discussion is bitchy smear.
Beer bingo says you’ll act like a cunt .....oh , look , I’ve got the keys to the brewery cause you’re always a petty cunt.
Trawling through archival threads to add another level of bitchiness really isn’t the look you need on top of your other low talent .
As someone else said ....just give it a rest.
Have it cunts