People will write her off as a nut job.

dandandan wrote:

The real takeaway for me is how things like this continually expose how boring and obedient some Australians can be. They talk big of larrikinism, on anti-authority, on freedom of expression, on being a ratbag, on the underdog, and all this other cultural nonsense but when push comes to shove they love law and order, they do what they're told, and think any diversion from the norms of public decency is an enormous insult. The calls for 'good manners' from some of the same voices that decry the "woke left and cancel culture" is so embarrassing.

100% on this. The love of law and order, do what you’re told and follow extreme safety measures are essential parts of modern Australian society. No other country in the world that I visited, lived in or work with is this extreme. Nowhere near.

dandandan wrote:

Should be surprising to noone that I think Lydia's actions were great, drew attention to an issue in a way she wanted to, satisfied her base as well as brought in more to the more radical cause (even if it put others off), and was also quite funny.

The real takeaway for me is how things like this continually expose how boring and obedient some Australians can be. They talk big of larrikinism, on anti-authority, on freedom of expression, on being a ratbag, on the underdog, and all this other cultural nonsense but when push comes to shove they love law and order, they do what they're told, and think any diversion from the norms of public decency is an enormous insult. The calls for 'good manners' from some of the same voices that decry the "woke left and cancel culture" is so embarrassing.

I think you might be forgetting she is a politician, voted in to make change through the political process that is closely aligned with law and order.

Yet she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

indo-dreaming wrote:

she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

I disagree with that ID. Any politician worth their salt will do lots of things that go far beyond "making change through the political process", and most would agree that the people who voted for her would have done so with that expectation. After all, she was voted in as a Green and based on her existing profile as a staunch grassroots community activist. In any case, Thorpe does plenty of that through work she does in her electorate, and has also pushed reforms through her role as senator, but as a non-government senator there is so much time you can spend on "law and order political process".

It's a weird take to be worried about her grabs for attention for the issues she cares about. Most of a political office's time is spent trying to get attention for the things they care about. There's specific staff members, entire departments, and millions spent on consultants every year by politicians dedicated to doing exactly that. Lidia just happens to be very good at it. You might not like the approach or the content, but many people do and there's thousands of words written about the issue now that wouldn't have been otherwise. Many of us prefer the "childish, feral bogan activist" to the suits, decorum, and status quo law and order political process.

Hiccups wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

100%

GuySmiley wrote:

Hiccups wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

100%

Well at least she hasn’t managed to get anywhere near the same level of influence as populist , dog whistlers, in the US .

Hiccups wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

I thought someone would make this comparison as it's what happened after Lidia's first or second stunt, at that stage you could say okay fair point.

But at this stage the comparisons are ridiculous, next year Pauline will have been in politics for 30 years, maybe there was more than this one real stunt, but i honestly cant remember, its like all lidiots stunts have made Pauline look vanilla.

Lidia is now on a totally different level, she has been in politics for 7 years and only a well known politician since 2020 but for her these acts are regular incidents, if she goes 6 month's it's like we need to give her a medal.

BTW. It should also be noted Paulines stunt made a point in a fairly peaceful civil way,

Lidiots are almost always much more unhinged often yelling abuse or just becoming a physical nuisance like laying in front of the police float or needing to get pulled away by police's as she crawls through the mud in a mini skirt at a women's right's rally.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Hiccups wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

she acts like some childish feral bogan activist always out to get attention, not just once or twice, but time after time, anyone else acting like that would have been fired from their job long ago.

I thought someone would make this comparison as it's what happened after Lidia's first or second stunt, at that stage you could say okay fair point.

But at this stage the comparisons are ridiculous, next year Pauline will have been in politics for 30 years, maybe there was more than this one real stunt, but i honestly cant remember, its like all lidiots stunts have made Pauline look vanilla.

Lidia is now on a totally different level, she has been in politics for 7 years and only a well known politician since 2020 but for her these acts are regular incidents, if she goes 6 month's it's like we need to give her a medal.

BTW. It should also be noted Paulines stunt made a point in a fairly peaceful civil way,

Lidiots are almost always much more unhinged often yelling abuse or just becoming a physical nuisance like laying in front of the police float or needing to get pulled away by police's as she crawls through the mud in a mini skirt at a women's right's rally.

Were you on the NW coast of Tas in 1997, indo? Did you go to protest the appearance of Aunty Pauline, the unflushable turd?

Hiccups, just remember that you're arguing with a fella who said that the closer indigenous crew are to their culture, the more violent they are.
He backed this up by saying the same about PNG.

AndyM wrote:

Hiccups, just remember that you're arguing with a fella who said that the closer indigenous crew are to their culture, the more violent they are.

He backed this up by saying the same about PNG.

Oh, I'm not arguing with him. I know he's set in his deeply racist ways.

Re Lidia; Thorpe is an English surname so she must have ancestors from that country. When she refers to "her people" is she turning her back on her part ancestoral heritage and only aknowledging her part aboriginal heritage?

at least pauline put some thought into it

lidia's efforts just look half arsed and hysterical

yes, good for the base, but hardly changing hearts and minds

quite the opposite actually...

which is basically what burney and langton said

AndyM wrote:

Hiccups, just remember that you're arguing with a fella who said that the closer indigenous crew are to their culture, the more violent they are.

He backed this up by saying the same about PNG.

Thats not what i said and you know it.

flollo wrote:

dandandan wrote:

The real takeaway for me is how things like this continually expose how boring and obedient some Australians can be. They talk big of larrikinism, on anti-authority, on freedom of expression, on being a ratbag, on the underdog, and all this other cultural nonsense but when push comes to shove they love law and order, they do what they're told, and think any diversion from the norms of public decency is an enormous insult. The calls for 'good manners' from some of the same voices that decry the "woke left and cancel culture" is so embarrassing.

100% on this. The love of law and order, do what you’re told and follow extreme safety measures are essential parts of modern Australian society. No other country in the world that I visited, lived in or work with is this extreme. Nowhere near.

Indeed crew.
On a more deeper scientific nuts and bolts kinda level. It has been proven that those that live with a lower level of serotonin have an over active amigdala. It's also been proven that those with hyper sensitive amigdalas, i.e. they live in a state of constant anxiousness and fear, are also more likely to support authoritarianism, and have a strong stance on law and order, military persuasion.
You only have to look at low info's rants about Israel and even his post above decrying this politician having her way (she should be fired..his words). At the bottom of it all, Low info is just one scared little kitten reacting out of fear.
Sadly, this is an Australian cultural approach. This seems to be where we're at. Covid was uncovered all our dirty nanny state secrets and how quickly people want to see others admonished by the law.
Anyway back to the nuts and bolts and bear with me because i have a point.
Just adjacent to the Amygdala and connected to it is the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis. It's role although similar to the Amygdala in generating a response to fear, is different in that it stores learnt fears and anxieties. So when a fear or anxiety rears itself up, the Amygdala releases certain chemicals depending on the messages it gets from the Bed Nucleus of Stria. Note....stored fears and anxieties.
It seems, anytime anything about Indigenous sovereignty, an Indigenous person speaking out..etc etc etc, there is a stored belief in Australian culture about losing something. A fear of losing something. I believe that fear is stored in that part of the brain, collectively as a culture. Because the irrational overactions this country, it's media and the everyday Australian have to what in this case in particular, are trivial and tedious things is kinda psychotic.
I can't see things ever changing when this fear is perpetually stoked and fuelled by the media and society.
Anyway, maybe just a good excuse to practice using some big words, apologies, but there actually is a point in there somewhere.
And just a note, great to see so many wonderfully open minded people contributing on this particular topic. It is very heartwarming and does spark a bit of hope that there's alot of good that are fighting the good fight.
Huzzaaaa to all you legends!!!

Hiccups wrote:

AndyM wrote:

Hiccups, just remember that you're arguing with a fella who said that the closer indigenous crew are to their culture, the more violent they are.

He backed this up by saying the same about PNG.

Oh, I'm not arguing with him. I know he's set in his deeply racist ways.

Bah the irony the irony.

And the answer to your other question is No

anyway, I think adam12's post was good

and without intending to out or pick on anyone... I find it amazing that people on board and concerned about these issues are still ignorant about the basics of the legal angle and calls for a treaty...

I was myself until I looked into it

surely - after all the funds, energy, and resources poured into 'the voice' over the last few years - this can only be described as an abject failure of the movement?

but it's not really...

as the whole voice campaign, its advocates (most of em), and labor... went out of their way to not talk about such things...

albo's absolute obsessively obtuse reaction of not daring to even mention key words - for 12 months or more!! ...was painful to watch...

tediously so

and wore thin real quick... as he trotted out the same tired old line, day, after day, after day...

they simply didn't want to talk about 'the detail' ... whilst bullshitting... day, after day, after day... that all 'the detail' was there...

180 odd pages of it...

1000's of pages of it...

that we were all advised to read...

until we weren't advised to read it...

(when it became politically dangerous...)

anyway, off topic a bit, bottom line is... blackfellas were promised a treaty for decades... decades ago...

it seemed inevitable

then they weren't promised it anymore...

and then 'the voice' promised...

well, lotsa things...

just don't talk about it!

bottom line is, as adam12 points out, now treaty etc. seem a world away...

and people carrying on like lidia ain't gonna bring it any closer

politics is just way too divided now

and labor way too weak, in conviction, policy, courage, support, belief, and voters... (30% primary)

they are basically impotent compared to the power and support they had back in pre 00's

and I can't see it coming back

which is why lidia's tactics are pointless

they are pure screaming into the void

and... pretty sure way back then, when such things had support and some consensus... there was hardly anyone using such language as lidia and co do now...

decades of that shit, hasn't helped anything

in terms of gains...

@syp wrote 'and without intending to out or pick on anyone... I find it amazing that people on board and concerned about these issues are still ignorant about the basics of the legal angle and calls for a treaty...'
Well you can only know what you know right Syp?
There's a shitload of stuff out there in the world i don't know.
I guess some of us are just know it alls. (not @adam12 obviously)
Praise the know it alls.

further to my point about division

seems labor have even isolated the greens...

the apparent vitriol between the two camps seems to resemble that of the greens vs libs of old

I think this is a bit reckless of labor - whilst I understand the why's - I think labor need/and will need, the greens more than ever in future...

I wasn't having a go at you precious...

I wasn't even talking about you specifically...

I threw myself in there, and was more thinking about another regular on here, where we discussed it - which was part of me looking into it further...

my point is, almost everyone is clueless about the legal angle

and that is a huge failure / or success, of the movement - depending on context...

I'd bet loads of crew at rallies have no bloody clue, what... 'always was, always will be' ...actually refers to...

wearing the shirt... chanting the chant...

Did i specifically say you were talking about me you freak.
Geez your touchy lately.
Is it all the US election stuff?
Take a chill pill syp...

goofyfoot wrote:

sypkan wrote:

some appropriate replies when the bank asks you why you are withdrawing your cash...

https://x.com/wideawake_media/status/1841789302365106394

I had to get $15k out of my bank earlier this year, the money was being used to buy my wife a car, and it was like I was getting a full on interrogation.

They had to call some guy who was higher up in the bank to decide whether I was legit or not and if I could get MY OWN money out!

Apparently there are only 4 of those people in the country who can authorise it so I stood there at the teller for about 15 minutes while the bank employee was on hold… The employee has worked at the same bank since I started my apprenticeship so he was telling the higher up knob head that he knows me, trusts me, I’m not being coerced into saying this…. Etc etc. Had to pretty much vouch for me.

I’ve banked with CBA since primary school and it seriously made me want to go elsewhere. Lucky for them I couldn’t be fucked!

Yeah it's nuts they really don't like cash.

I think the point is, you can either tell obvious right from obvious wrong or you can't.
To understand all the legalities etc and every facet of the argument isn't the point.
That's what a community or a group of people working together is for. Everyone brings their own unique understanding, information and angle.
I reckon it was a lame post by you that discredits that key fundamental of the fabric of unity towards a better world.

Who has the last say on what is obviously 'right' and obviously 'wrong'?

Not being picky but that's where the argument falls apart.

Pop Down wrote:

I will defend Lydia .

Her constituency would have been disappointed if she acted differently .

Her Style has worked for her , why change ?

I have no idea how some Senators get in , but like Hansen , Thorpey will be around 4 a while .

I agree with AW , a Treaty is a Foundation Stone for a Resolution .

What's so hard about Giving the Land back to the Original Cultural owners and then , they Gift back 99.9% of Australian homes and starting a new title .

Crown Land can become Australian Land .

Then we start the Hard work , the Detail of a final Resolution , that enables us ALL to be proud of our Nation .

A Native Title Future Fund , $100b , is established and is a Gift to our FNP , 4 all the hurt they have endured since Cook first set foot on our great company ,

sssh! Pops! We're not supposed to let them know it's a company!

Morally right and morally wrong @zen?
Don't need a church or religion to make that obvious...do we?
Surely there's a clear line between the two?

ok, I apologise

I sensed a touch of snark...

I misread your post

adam12 wrote:

On Lidia, and I don't want to appear like I keep jumping to her defence here, whatever her methodology, her performative nature, or whether she is any kind of "slut" or "bogan" or "activist" the fact remains that King Charles' hereditary claim to sovereignty over the continent of Australia remains deeply flawed at law.

She is actually speaking a truth to power, an important truth not just about our past but our future.

Charles' claim rests on the flag raising and unilateral proclamation of sovereign ownership in the name of his ancestor King George at the ceremony conducted by Cook at Kurnell in 1770.

The legality of that ceremony rests on the legal concept of terra nullius, "nobody's land". In other words you can legally claim sovereignty by proclamation if it is nobody's land.

In fact and in law and so held by the High Court in Mabo, it was somebody's land, the FNP nations.

So you can't or legally it shouldn't be valid to just show up and proclaim you are the sovereign power unilaterally. You can acquire that sovereignty, or more correctly it can be ceded, by negotiation, by treaty with the somebody who actually owns it. as Hobson did on behalf of his King, with the rangatira Maori in NZ in 1840.

The issue of sovereign possession and authority by the British Crown is not live in NZ because of this.

The issue is still very live here, and unless and until is is resolved FNP like Lidia Thorpe and others will continue to raise it, and correctly so.

Whether you agree with how they raise it is up to personal interpretation.

And in spite of the abhorrence felt by many at the idea and the complexity of how it would work, the concept of a treaty that retrospectively cleans up this anomaly is actually a practical solution. A solution to this and other matters.

Never gonna happen with the current leadership or the alternative we have at present, or the public mood evidenced by the Voice vote. But the chant "always was always will be" holds a solid ring of truth unless and until this issue is resolved.

There is a dark shadow over the legal legitimacy of how power is derived and exercised in this country that has existed since 1770. It needs to be dealt with.

Well said, surely it follows from Mabo that a Treaty should be sought. The scope of which I do not know at present. How to incorporate everything and everyone that has come since with a restitution to the people here at that time?

Thanks Syp. Nope i'm in a great mood, had great waves, it's a beautiful day here and there was no defensive snark intended.
General snark, maybe. Probably a bit too much so apologies back.

the thing is...

most of us lived through MABO

and most of us are none the wiser to the wider implications of it

we jumped on board purely on moral 'feels'

for better or worse...

those days are done

thankyou internet...

(sarcasm)

now movements have to have their shit together...

ducks in a row to an OCD level

be open and transparent

or the home sleuths just fill in the gaps...

dandandan wrote:

Should be surprising to noone that I think Lydia's actions were great, drew attention to an issue in a way she wanted to, satisfied her base as well as brought in more to the more radical cause (even if it put others off), and was also quite funny.

The real takeaway for me is how things like this continually expose how boring and obedient some Australians can be. They talk big of larrikinism, on anti-authority, on freedom of expression, on being a ratbag, on the underdog, and all this other cultural nonsense but when push comes to shove they love law and order, they do what they're told, and think any diversion from the norms of public decency is an enormous insult. The calls for 'good manners' from some of the same voices that decry the "woke left and cancel culture" is so embarrassing.

& this is the one I logged in to make a comment on, great post. The two enlightenment 'children', Australia and the US, took different paths. The US rebelled against it's parent, spoke it's mind, and encapsulated it's spirit in it's Articles of Confederation, Constitution and Bill of Rights...

The other child, Australia, developed and remained obedient. While remaining an enlightenment project, right from the scope of Cook's orders (read them! Very moral and tolerant and understanding of those he would encounter) to today. So we didn't rebel. When we did on the small scale, like at Eureka in 1854, it was put down in the night. As were Fenian uprisings. Overall, we look to the institutions to find the right path, rather than revolution. We are quiet, with a very strong sense of right and wrong, and when put under duress, we show our finest and endure.

velocityjohnno wrote:

Pop Down wrote:

I will defend Lydia .

Her constituency would have been disappointed if she acted differently .

Her Style has worked for her , why change ?

I have no idea how some Senators get in , but like Hansen , Thorpey will be around 4 a while .

I agree with AW , a Treaty is a Foundation Stone for a Resolution .

What's so hard about Giving the Land back to the Original Cultural owners and then , they Gift back 99.9% of Australian homes and starting a new title .

Crown Land can become Australian Land .

Then we start the Hard work , the Detail of a final Resolution , that enables us ALL to be proud of our Nation .

A Native Title Future Fund , $100b , is established and is a Gift to our FNP , 4 all the hurt they have endured since Cook first set foot on our great company ,

sssh! Pops! We're not supposed to let them know it's a company!

haha, oohhh, thank you : ) needed that !

oh man, we won't unpack that little nest of hornets today...

The opposition may be out to have lidia outed . https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/is-lidia-thorpes-senate-seat-at-ris…

If you can’t be bothered reading the article this interview may be of interest .

@Supa,
Good stuff! That shit is hilarious. The LNP are going to boot her ay? Good luck with that Simon Birmingham you little shit, (or shart really, he's not big enough to be a shit.)
So he wants to waste the Senate's or the High Court's time on whether the woman said "hairs" or "heirs" when she subscribed the allegiance anyway.
Liberal fuckwittery at it's finest.
The High Court wouldn't even give it standing, they've got real issues on their benches to determine not some party political fluff dreamed up by a puffed up little point scorer.
And a Senate censure motion??? Oh my God! She must be panicking about that one...not.
You're a fucking moron Birmingham, she would relish it, another grandstand for her.
I bet the censure motion idea gets wound back too once you dolts realise that.
Or maybe Dutts needs this culture war to play out more, culture wars and that ridiculous nuclear power bullshit is all he's got apparently, and that nuke one was Gina's idea anyway.
Like much of the propaganda the LNP disseminate to their billionaire backer MSM it's the headline they are after, "LNP tough guys gonna sort this upstart" when the detail is "it's bullshit."
This fucking country! These fucking LNP!
Fuck me they are stupid sometimes.

adam12 wrote:

@Supa,

Good stuff! That shit is hilarious. The LNP are going to boot her ay? Good luck with that Simon Birmingham you little shit, (or shart really, he's not big enough to be a shit.)

So he wants to waste the Senate's or the High Court's time on whether the woman said "hairs" or "heirs" when she subscribed the allegiance anyway.

Liberal fuckwittery at it's finest.

The High Court wouldn't even give it standing, they've got real issues on their benches to determine not some party political fluff dreamed up by a puffed up little point scorer.

And a Senate censure motion??? Oh my God! She must be panicking about that one...not.

You're a fucking moron Birmingham, she would relish it, another grandstand for her.

I bet the censure motion idea gets wound back too once you dolts realise that.

Or maybe Dutts needs this culture war to play out more, culture wars and that ridiculous nuclear power bullshit is all he's got apparently, and that nuke one was Gina's idea anyway.

Like much of the propaganda the LNP disseminate to their billionaire backer MSM it's the headline they are after, "LNP tough guys gonna sort this upstart" when the detail is "it's bullshit."

This fucking country! These fucking LNP!

Fuck me they are stupid sometimes.

Sometimes??

Problem is , a lot of media coverage will be focused on what the LNP are saying and the treaty issue will be ignored . That’s the problem I see on how Lidia approaches things like a bull at a gate . She needs some advisors I believe on how to go about getting her message out there . Some media outlets have a way of getting people to look over here , in order to avoid the real issue .

It's a fair assessment Supa but what other way works?
There doesn't seem to be any spark or catalyst for change that doesn't involve this kind of extremism to make it's way into the general Australian psyche.
Which i agree is fucked.

southernraw wrote:

It's a fair assessment Supa but what other way works?

There doesn't seem to be any spark or catalyst for change that doesn't involve this kind of extremism to make it's way into the general Australian psyche.

Which i agree is fucked.

What other way works ? Good question that I can’t answer. I just think she plays into the hands of those that oppose her , giving them ammo to turn it all against her and sell her as a complete attention seeking nutcase . The SBS interview I thought was good and the interviewer did a good job with her questions and Lidia responded well. I doubt she would get the same treatment from other outlets . How big an audience does SBS have compared to the competition ? https://www.statista.com/topics/8944/news-in-australia/

Serial “touchy feely” drunk, conservative christian and former deputy PM who fathered a child out of wedlock after “bedding” his junior staff member and then left his wife and daughters backs serial IPA/Murdoch grifter on her conservative Christian views on abortion

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/abortion-stance-shows-price-…

any further carry on about lidia thorpe's fun, summed up well in 2 mins:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/politics…
(it left PK, going ha, yup...)

indo-dreaming wrote:

AndyM wrote:

Hiccups, just remember that you're arguing with a fella who said that the closer indigenous crew are to their culture, the more violent they are.

He backed this up by saying the same about PNG.

Thats notwhat i said and you know it.

Haha, I know exactly what you said.

Yeah agree @supa.
I guess conversely if she didn't flare up, nobody would be talking, and that's just as fucked.
And i'm pretty sure she doesn't care what people think about her.
So in my opinion it's a win of sorts.
Anyway, the sun will rise again tomorrow. haha.

basesix wrote:

any further carry on about lidia thorpe's fun, summed up well in 2 mins:

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/politics…

(it left PK, going ha, yup...)

Chief political editor for 9 , I didn’t hear him mention treaty , I don’t think other editors will mention it either, Lidia’s behaviour makes a bigger story…….. or deflection .

Supafreak wrote:

basesix wrote:

any further carry on about lidia thorpe's fun, summed up well in 2 mins:

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/politics…

(it left PK, going ha, yup...)

Chief political editor for 9 , I didn’t hear him mention treaty , I don’t think other editors will mention it either, Lidia’s behaviour makes a bigger story…….. or deflection .

And it shouldn't be either, to do so would be rewarding her actions.

Just listened to the ABC thing, the thing is she was elected as a Greens member not an independent a large amount of people would have voted for her just because she is in the Greens party, it sucks that people can leave or be booted from a party and still be in parliament as an independent when not elected as an independent at that stage it should be dealt with like if an elected member of a party dies. (whatever the replacement process is)

On LNP calling for her to be removed, even if its not realistic that's irrelevant, whats more important is their stance and message to voters, the majority of Australians no matter LNP or Labor voters at this stage would agree.

.

"that would be rewarding her actions"

For someone who has commented so much on freedom of speech and wokeism in these forums over the years ID, you sound very much like a conservative-dad-ultra-cop.

People change parties and change views all the time .

Lidia , like the lass that changed from being Labor , have only a responsibility to tell Pop why .

Then we can work out whether 2 vote for them Next Time .

U can't throw them out !

The ABC clip said Vic and Tassy have 12 Senators Each , really ?

Even if Viewed as a Pest , Lidia keeps making her Point , she is NOT a Happy Jan .

It's not BAD 4 US all 2 B reminded occasionally , that a Pest Problem needs some Real attention .