Preferencing

Is there any way to find out who's preferencing who (local electorate, or the whole country) before we vote?

indo-dreaming wrote:

AndyM wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

AndyM wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Actually the scariest thing about this election is the whole put the majors last mantra and popularity of people to vote for independents and nutter parties.

And im not just talking nutters on the left the whole teal thing, but the nutters on the right to especially the whole freedom party type thing.

What's scary about it?

The biggest nutters in politics are the ones currently in power.

True extremists.

Im sure you don't really believe that, both the LNP and dare i say Labor can run a country and generally speaking have common sense, experience and wisdom, obviously LNP more so as are the most experienced and most proven.

The other parties and especially independents are just there to appeal to people and only tell people(their niche group) what they want to hear, personally i want as less influence from them as possible.

I see their environmental and economic policies as being absolutely extreme.

I agree going carbon free by 2050 is pretty extreme, but Labor have the same policy, and its just something we need to do.

And yes it was extreme to pay people not to work and double people's dole but it was what was needed to be done to keep peoples jobs, they are not economic measures i would normally support, but it was a once in one hundred year pandemic, so needed extreme measures.

Same with lockdowns and closing borders, its all extreme but they were things that had to be done, and all these measures are what has got us through Covid as one of most successful countries both from a health and economic perspective during Covid.

Considering rates of animal extinction and rates of land clearing in this country, as well as growing wealth inequality, any government that isn't addressing these issues has extreme policies, specifically neoliberal economic policies.

Robust reporting found below

https://www.climate-transparency.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CT2021A…

“Australia’s per capita emissions are 2.90 times the G20 average”.

“Australia’s 2030 domestic emissions reduction target is consistent with warming of 4°C if all other countries followed a similar level of ambition. Under current policies, emissions will continue to rise and are consistent with more than 3°C warming. To achieve a better rating, Australia needs to set a more ambitious target for emissions reductions with associated policies, and provide finance to support other countries. “

“The “Highly insufficient” rating indicates that Australia’s targets, policies and climate finance are not Paris Agreement Compatible. The federal government accelerated a “gas-fired” recovery not a green economic recovery, refused to increase its 2030 domestic emissions target or set a net-zero emissions target, and is not on track to meet its current target.“

“The Climate Transparency Report is the world’s most comprehensive annual review of G20 countries’ climate action and their transition to a net-zero emissions economy.”

velocityjohnno wrote:

Preferencing

Is there any way to find out who's preferencing who (local electorate, or the whole country) before we vote?

You choose VJ, vote below the line.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/liberal-candidate-for-melbourne-seat-in…

hey @stu or @ben, any chance of an online version of this to warn unsuspecting readers of the gross levels of bullshit routinely posted here by the resident village idiots?

Friedburger had better things to do …….

500+ in attendance for the #Kooyong candidates forum:

* @Mon4Kooyong
* @piersmitchem
* @PLynch4Kooyong
* empty chair for @JoshFrydenberg#KooyongVotes pic.twitter.com/RiOKKguwfT

— 💧simon holmes à court 🦋 (@simonahac) April 27, 2022

fact: half the lithium used in the world's #EVs comes from australia, but we receive very little benefit.

we're leaving so many opportunities on the table — at the cost of jobs and a future facing economy — because the dysfunctional coalition is focussed on the rear-view mirror. https://t.co/wvd1ndNk92

— 💧simon holmes à court 🦋 (@simonahac) April 27, 2022

More on Lithium - Australia has one half the worlds known Lithium deposits but receives SFA from these in the product chain. https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/lithium-proce…

Supafreak wrote:

https://twitter.com/simonahac/status/1519166946935144448?s=21&t=otjMq8W…

If business believed it was viable to make batteries here or EV's, they would.

It's fair to expect the same reason we dont make batteries or EV's here is the same reason we barely make anything here, the cost to manufacture in Australia is very high especially wages.

We have been through this issue 100 times and seen manufacturing go offshore due to high wages pushed by unions.

It's really not hard to understand, manufacturing doesn't suddenly become viable because its an EV.

Batteries and EV's as it is are expensive, imagine how much more expensive an EV made in Australia would be.

BTW. cents in the dollar is pretty vague and could mean any amount and most likely worth huge money in the scheme of things.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

https://twitter.com/simonahac/status/1519166946935144448?s=21&t=otjMq8W…

If business believed it was viable to make batteries here or EV's, they would.

In real terms, oil refining or steel manufacturing isn't viable in Australia yet they exist because the government subsidises them. This is argued on an amalgam of national security and jobs.

I can't see why value adding a future energy source shouldn't have the same protection. Doesn't have to be end-of-line products, just something to increase jobs and fortify national security.

Yep they can be made here easily because things like these batteries and solar panels etc are largely made on a robotic line and robots get the same pay in China as here. Also, new non toxic calcium and sodium batteries are the new players as well and we need to get started on them too….I wish they would build an LNG pipeline across Australia as homes and industry would benefit greatly and coal seam gas would be a redundant idea.

Watch it, you're sounding a lot like Rex Connor there Opti.

A favourite stanza of his:

Give me men to match my mountains,
Give me men to match my plains,
Men with freedom in their visions
And creation in their veins.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

https://twitter.com/simonahac/status/1519166946935144448?s=21&t=otjMq8W…

If business believed it was viable to make batteries here or EV's, they would.

It's fair to expect the same reason we dont make batteries or EV's here is the same reason we barely make anything here, the cost to manufacture in Australia is very high especially wages.

We have been through this issue 100 times and seen manufacturing go offshore due to high wages pushed by unions.

It's really not hard to understand, manufacturing doesn't suddenly become viable because its an EV.

Batteries and EV's as it is are expensive, imagine how much more expensive an EV made in Australia would be.

BTW. cents in the dollar is pretty vague and could mean any amount and most likely worth huge money in the scheme of things.

Indo, to your point these Twitter memes mean absolutely nothing. The mining industry will extract the resource and sell it, whether they sell it offshore or locally it makes no difference to them. When these people say 'we make cents' I assume they mean the government revenue 'making cents' from these transactions? What does 'we' actually mean? If it's what I think it is (government revenue) then an increase can come from a few basic sources (there's more than this but I'll keep it simple):

1) Increase the taxes on the already existing system
2) Increase the volume being traded (I guess this is what these tweets are targetting, more trading within the Australian borders)
3) Get a new share from a newly created industry (Taxes from manufacturing and processing instead of just resource extraction?)

Anyway, I studied these topics a fair bit and there's a lot of momentum. There are some good projects in the background. For example, the startup scene now actually has good chances of raising capital for projects which is a good thing. VC funds are keener to throw money at it.

But sadly, what's always missing from this shallow rhetoric are the details like:

- What is the actual proposal?
- Who's funding the deal?
- How will the capital be raised?
- What are the capital payback periods?
- Who is actually accountable for what?
+ many other unanswered questions

The curse of any incumbent government (in this case LNP) is that you have a track record that can be criticised (or praised if good). And unfortunately, to propose a 'better offer' these days is enough to put some high-level concept together and tweet the fuck out of it.

I congratulate the circle jerkers on their dedication if nothing else. By rough estimates Freakie and Andy have made approx 1000 posts/ejaculations on this thread alone, convincing absolutely no-one but themselves that they are right - you guys must be very, very sore.

After 9 years this is where we end up

Meat and seafood (up 6.2 per cent), fruit and vegetables (up 6.8 per cent), dwellings (up 6.7 per cent) and fuel (up 35 per cent). Especially when wages are limping well behind (up only 2.3 per cent over the past year).

$1.2 trillion in debt.

I focus wrote:

After 9 years this is where we end up

Meat and seafood (up 6.2 per cent), fruit and vegetables (up 6.8 per cent), dwellings (up 6.7 per cent) and fuel (up 35 per cent). Especially when wages are limping well behind (up only 2.3 per cent over the past year).

$1.2 trillion in debt.

But can't you see?

The answer is more LNP.

AndyM wrote:

And again -

The federal government has:

Cut $14 million from the national audit office, after that office discovered substantial improprieties and wasteful spending (such as the sports rorts, and paying 10 times too much for land for the new Sydney airport). source

Voted against a binding code of conduct designed to ensure politicians act with integrity. source

Blocked a research-backed design change to increase the effectiveness of beverage warnings about drinking during pregnancy (recommended by an independent body) after meeting with lobbyists from alcohol companies who have donated over $300,000 to the Coalition. source

Gave $345,000 to News Corp to build a spelling bee website, discarding any pretense of propriety or fairness by skipping the usual parliamentary checks and tender process, instead just choosing to hand the excessive amount of cash to a company whose industry is neither website building nor education. source

Hid a record-breaking number of expenses from the public in an annual budget, including cash handed to a private rail project, maintaining an abandoned oil rig, and legal action relating to military bases which leaked toxic chemicals. source

Loosened political donation laws. source source

Committed a crime by ignoring a ruling of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. source source

Appointed a failed Liberal candidate to the SBS board instead of any of the ones recommended by the independent nominations panel. source

Prevented parliament from debating whether to set up a National Integrity Commission. source

Set up the COVID-19 National Coordination Committee with no terms of reference, no register of conflicts of interest, and then stacked it with gas company executives who unsurprisingly ended up recommending irrationally pro-gas policies. 690 documents about potential conflicts of interests were deliberately kept hidden. source source source

Blocked parliament from debating significant environmental protection repeals, rushing through the legislation without allowing anyone to discuss it first. source

Lied by claiming they appointed a Liberal party staffer to a job paying half a million dollars per year through an “open merit-driven, competitive process”. It was actually a limited tender not open to all, exempt from procurement rules which guarantee fairness and impartiality. source

Tried to get parliament to vote on new legislation without giving copies of the bill to the people voting on it, and used unprecedented methods to prevent any politician to speak against it. source source source

Paid tens of thousands of dollars to a company which was known to be corrupt, through a tender that was not opened up to all competitors. source

Illegally forged a document to publicly criticise a political opponent. source

Cancelled The Rule of Law and then preventing journalists from reporting on the case against a whistleblower who leaked truthful information in the public interest about senior politicians and law enforcement officials who flagrantly violated serious international laws. The court case is held in secret. The whistleblower’s name is illegal to publish. The witness and lawyers’ residences were raided, and the evidence against the government was confiscated. source source

Extended exemptions for political donation transparency, which are 25 years old and were only supposed to be temporary. source

Paid $39 million to a naval boat manufacturer when not required to because the company failed to fulfill the relevant contract clauses, and they coincidentally donated to the Liberal party. source

Illegally failed to respond to freedom of information (FOI) requests within the statutory 30 day deadline in 92.5% of cases. source

Bought water rights for 50 times more than many valuations, and double the price of the seller’s valuation. source

Lied by claiming that Kevin Rudd had travelled overseas and back during COVID while many Australians are still stranded overseas, when Mr Rudd had actually never left Queensland. source source

Refused to release a report into COVID policy communication strategies, which cost over $500,000. source

Introduced a mandatory code of conduct to force companies like Google to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to large private news companies (but not ABC news nor independent news, nor the Chaser). Google currently drives over 3 billion clicks per year to Australian news companies. Therefore this is like a local plumber demanding that the Yellow Pages pay the plumber for the act of directing plumber-seeking customers to the plumber. This will also undermine the fundamental principles of the web itself, according to its inventor. The laws are written based on the incorrect assumption that news makes up 10% of Google searches when it’s only 1%. source source source source source source

Introduced red tape and distorted the free market by forcing Google to give special insider knowledge of proprietary search algorithm changes to large news companies but not small, independent journalists. It includes ambiguously written clauses about giving news companies access to Google users’ private data. source source

Introduced protections for company executives who trade while insolvent during the pandemic. This is only for cases where the debts are incurred “the ordinary course of business”. Those who try to adapt to the challenging circumstances will not be exempt. In this way the government is incentivising executives to not adapt to the unique circumstances. source

Refused to release the minutes from an important meeting of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee giving COVID advice to the Prime Minister. source source

Created the ABCC ostensibly for reducing corruption, but the ABCC boss himself violated rules and endangered people by ignoring COVID flight restrictions, travelling across the country to interview workers about a rally that happened 8 months prior. source

Refused to release a multilateral trade agreement with China, which involves spending government money on infrastructure in other countries. The lack of transparency exacerbates existing concerns about burdening these other developing nations with unsustainable debt. source source

Deleted records of a $165,000 political donation from a political consultancy with stakeholders who stand to benefit from the government’s $1 billion visa privatization plan, and refused requests for further explanation. source

Kept secret a government-funded report that showed that less than 1 in 3 Australians trust our public service sector. The justification was that the government believed that the report which they wrote would mislead and confuse people. source

Lied by claiming that all grants issued under the controversial $100M sports grant program were eligible for funding, when only 57% were. source

Failed to declare a property worth $1M in a minister’s declaration of interests. source

Failed to declare 2 properties worth more than $1M in another minister’s declaration of interests. source

Approved a $36,000 grant to a shooting club without declaring that the approving minister was a member of that club. source

Allocated sports grant funding based on which candidate projects were in marginal seats, rather than which were the most worthy. Then refused to release legal advice about whether such pork barrelling is illegal, and destroyed evidence about the funding choices. source source source source source

Merged the Australian Federal Police into the Home Affairs department, allowing the minister to exert political influence on investigations. source

Ignored a Royal Commission report which found the government’s Murray-Darling Basin Plan is illegal, whilst refusing to publish their own report which they claim provides a valid rebuttal. source

Abandoned standard tender processes when awarding a $423 million contract to a company with $50k in funds, little experience, no phone number, no mail address, housed in a shack. source source

Refused to publish a report used to justify a $53 million contract to outsource Centrelink call handling. source source

Declared that they will violate a new law, because they don’t like it. source source

Spent $87,000 fighting against a Freedom of Information request about back-room deals, and then lied about the cost. source

Drastically increased the amount of government money spent without a proper tender process, up to $34 billion per month. source

Handed out $17.1M to private TV stations for a grant they didn’t ask for, without offering the money to the public broadcaster. source

Refused a Senate Order to release details about expensive contracts for security, health and infrastructure in their detention camps in PNG. source

Excused the conflict of interest arising when the head of the My Health Record (appointed by the government) privately received money for consultations about the My Health Record. source

Spent 2 years trying to hide documents from Freedom of Information requests, about a serious breach of top secret documents, and mishandling of those documents by a minister. source

Hid a report by the Governor General showing that the government paid twice as much as necessary for new combat vehicles, because such publicity would be bad for the private manufacturer’s future profitability. The company is not even Australian. source source

Lied about the Immigration Minister having no personal connection to someone who benefited from the direct intervention by the Immigration Minister in a visa case. source source source

Spent an undisclosed amount of public money on legal defence for a minister who broken the law for political gain. source

Broke an election promise by cutting $84 million from the ABC (again). source

Exempted a facial recognition system storing data of innocent citizens from standard procurement policy disclosure rules. The excuse is a reliance on security through obscurity rather than actual security. Accuracy figures are also not published. source source source

Increased the jail time for journalists who report on whistleblower’s truthful allegations by a factor of 10. source source

Refused to publish the percentage of calls to the veterans’ suicide help line which go unanswered, because that want negatively impact the brand of the private call centre operator. source

Prohibited public servants from liking social media posts critical of the government, even if anonymous. source

Failed to declare multiple $1600 Foxtel subscriptions gifted to ministers by a lobby group. source

Gave $30 million to Foxtel to boost “under represented sports”, and was unable to explain why free-to-air channels didn’t get the money, because the decision was made without any emails, letter, or supporting documentation. source source

Paid a minister $273 per night to stay in his own home. source

Prevented university newspapers from attending the release of multiple annual budgets like all other newspapers. These particular budgets contained multiple changes which negatively impact university students. source source

Refused to release the results for the trial of a national health register. source

Spent over $3,500 to send a minister to watch the AFL with his wife. source

Spent over $2,700 on a trip to watch polo. source

Spent $10,000 per day to send a single minister to the USA. source

Broke a promise to scrap free lifetime travel for former ministers. The excuse is that the government is to busy to pass legislation through parliament, despite that being the job of the government and of parliament. source

Falsely advertised the closure of the Child Dental Benefits Schedule, despite Parliament rejecting the closure attempt. source

Refused to publish the cost benefit analysis on the agriculture minister’s decision to move a federal agency from Canberra to his own electorate. source

Personally appointed George Brandis’ son’s lawyer to a $370,000 job, without making a conflict of interest declaration. source source

Tried to privatise the database of ASIC (the corporate watchdog). Under private hands the cost journalists must pay to obtain information about potentially corrupt companies would increase. source

Spent over $140,000 for 5 ministers to travel to a country we have no trade or diplomatic ties with, visiting tourist sites and dining in 5 star restaurants. source

Refused to release 5 year old taxi receipts to assist in a fraud case, on the grounds that terrorists could use travel information from 5 years ago to help plan an attack against the minister in question. source

Spent $10,000 to fly the family of 2 ministers to a tropical island for a weekend holiday. source

Voted against a motion asking the Housing Affordability Inquiry to update the senate on how they are progressing with the recommendations the government supported. source

Rejected an inquiry which recommended that citizens accused of tax fraud be treated as innocent until proven guilty. source

Spent $30,000 on a private jet to fly one minister and their partner from Perth to Canberra (instead of catching a normal plane) because a non-business event ran overtime. This is despite the alleged budget emergency. source

Voted against increasing transparency about how much tax large corporations pay. source

Violated parliamentary anti-corruption rules by not declaring a substantial loan for almost 2 years. source

Broke an election promise to conduct and publish a cost benefit analysis for all infrastructure projects over $100 million. source

Spent over $20,000 in a legal fight in order to hide modelling for the impact of university fee deregulation. source source

Spent thousands of government dollars on taxi rides to the Opera in just 8 days. The government claims that the expenditure is reasonable because the minister didn’t pay for the tickets either. source

Spent thousands of government dollars on limousine rides, and fudged the declaration paperwork to say they were taxi rides. source

Spent $10,000 trying to chase down someone who leaked information to the media about how the Prime Minister deliberately and knowingly used false information to justify opposition to a defence force pay rise. source

Spent $27,000 on travel expenses for politicians to attend free sports events. source

Voted against a royal commission into corruption and misconduct in the financial service industry, following a series of scandals. source

Reaped $1000 per month of government money to pay for Joe Hockey to stay in his wife’s house. source

Proposed an exemption so that Australia’s richest companies no longer have to publish basic information about how much tax they are paying. source

Accidentally leaked the personal details of 31 world leaders, and chose not to notify them. They still claim your metadata will be safe though. source

Breached the criminal code of conduct by offering the independently appointed Human Rights Commissioner a new job if she resigned. source

Flew across the country on a taxpayer funded private jet to attend the private birthday party of a millionaire who has made large donations to the Liberal party. source

Refused to publish cost estimates for the data-retention policy which were provided by the industry. source

Voted to keep the text of the China Free Trade deal secret from the public. source

Abolished the $10,000 limit on political donations. source

Broke the law by missing the deadline for publishing the Intergenerational Report, as stipulated by the Charter of Budget Honesty Act. source

Spent $10,000 trying to identify a whistleblower who told the media that the Prime Minister knowingly mislead the public using information he knew was incorrect. source

Started an online petition to stop job losses at the ABC, just 36 hours after cutting ABC funding by 5% (which broke an election promise). source

Contracted out the managing of the Do Not Call Register to a marketing company. source

Secretly and retrospectively changed the official record of what was said in parliament. source

Broke an election promise by cutting ABC funding again ($120 million this time). source source

Spent $900,000 in just 2 months on private jet flights for ministers. source

Forced all community TV stations off the air, claiming that moving online will be better for stations and viewers. Meanwhile they continue to fervently defend foreign corporate stations like HBO, who stubbornly refuse to make content accessible online. source

Introduced new laws which mean Edward Snowden type leaks are punishable by up to 10 years of prison. No exemptions are made for anti-corruption leaks. If journalists report on anyone (including innocent bystanders) being killed accidentally or deliberately by security personnel, they will be jailed for up to 10 years. source source source source

Spent $50,000 on upgrades of curtains and upholstery for the Prime Minister’s office. source

Moved to abolish the role of freedom of information commissioner, abolish the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner and charge $800 for reviews of Freedom of Information Request denials. source

Refused to publish any submissions it received for or against the proposed changes to the Racial Discrimination Act, even though the government says the changes are to protect free speech. They refused to state what proportion of submissions supported the changes. The government defended this secrecy by claiming that all submissions were made with the expectation of confidentiality. This is false. The Senate Inquiry Submission Guidelines state that to make a Senate Inquiry Submission confidential, you must explicitly justify a request for confidentiality, and that such requests are generally denied. source source

Lied about the Australian Federal Police advising Tony Abbott not to visit Deakin University for safety reasons. source

Gave the Minister for Infrastructure the power to silence Infrastructure Australia (an independent body) without justification. (See section 5A.2 of the link.) source

Deliberately hid the cost of the $4.45 million renovations on The Lodge. source

Spent $50,000 on one dinner for 60 G20 guests, including food specially flown to Washington from all over Australia. source

Voted against the creation of a federal anti-corruption watchdog. source

Cut $38 million from Australian television and film funding. source

Broke an election promise by cutting $40 million from the SBS and ABC. source source source

Broke an election promise to not cut ABC funding, by cutting all funding to the Australia Network (part of the ABC). source source source

Claimed a 2.5% reduction in funding every year for the ABC is not a funding cut. source

Increased the fee for lodging Freedom of Information requests. source

Paid a public relations company $97,000 for 3 weeks of work to help improve the Education Department’s image, then refused to release the report that came of it. source

Proposed the scrapping of regulation which prevents media monopolies and duopolies. source

Spent over $15,000 on a custom made bookcase to replace a $7,000 custom bookcase which holds $13,000 worth of taxpayer funded books and magazines in senator Brandis’ office. source

Spent $22,000 taxpayer dollars buying new cutlery and crockery for the ministerial wing of parliament. source

Chose not to mention a $882 million payout to News Corp. when outlining a $16.8 billion budget black hole. The payout was the single biggest item in the black hole. source source

Denied any wrongdoing after a government aid married to the head of a junk food lobby pulled down a government website providing simplified nutritional information within hours of its launch. source

Violated Youtube’s policies regarding deceptive content, resulting in the suspension of Abbott’s whole channel. source

Criticised the ABC because they aren’t biased towards the Government. source

Spent over $120,000 on Kirribilli House, including $13,000 on an imported luxury rug, paid for by the taxpayer. source

Tried to silence the media to stop them criticising the upcoming private jet deal for politicians. source

Changed the ministerial code of conduct so ministers no longer have to sell shares which create a conflict of interest. source

Made Orwellian threats about cutting ABC funding because the government didn’t like one of their stories, and because their quality of journalism is too high, thereby creating competition which threatens the corporate newspaper duopoly (who are now floundering because they didn’t see the internet coming).

https://chaser.com.au/national/an-exhaustive-list-of-the-liberal-partys…

Cockee wrote:

I congratulate the circle jerkers on their dedication if nothing else. By rough estimates Freakie and Andy have made approx 1000 posts/ejaculations on this thread alone, convincing absolutely no-one but themselves that they are right - you guys must be very, very sore.

2013 ford taurus sho 0 60

Does anyone genuinely believe that the current inflation wouldn’t have occurred if it’d been an ALP government in power during the past few years?

The inflation is global* and I don’t believe that any major party Australian Government would have avoided it. Remember a couple of years ago when MMT was posited as being something besides a magic money printing illusion which devalues every currency which tried it on for size? Funny how those voices have gone quiet now the reality of MOAR money is hitting home.

*Entirely coincidental I’m sure.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Does anyone genuinely believe that the current inflation wouldn’t have occurred if it’d been an ALP government in power during the past few years?

The inflation is global* and I don’t believe that any major party Australian Government would have avoided it. Remember a couple of years ago when MMT was posited as being something besides a magic money printing illusion which devalues every currency which tried it on for size? Funny how those voices have gone quiet now the reality of MOAR money is hitting home.

*Entirely coincidental I’m sure.

Agreed, but using it as a PR tool to promote political agenda is a smart move (unfortunately, I would rather spend time doing deep dives into policies).

Also, taking credit for the good state of the economy (for which none of the political parties actually have full control over) during the largest QE in history is the same thing.

So, they all love doing it. Inflation-wise, it was debated so much and so early that I'm honestly surprised it took so long to get to Australia (officially at least).

@DSDS,

No, but when it comes to handling the social fallout I know who'd I'd put more trust in.

See also Flollo's point above: "Taking credit for the good state of the economy (for which none of the political parties actually have full control over) during the largest QE in history is the same thing."

Re: the lithium & manufacturing above - we actually DO manufacture a part of the EV supply chain already: Nissan's EV motor component plant in Dandenong. They do parts "including an EV inverter water jacket cover and casing, as well as the motor’s stator housing,"

https://createdigital.org.au/nissan-australia-factory-supplies-automoti…

When it comes to Australia, what I'm seeing is a shifting of the supply chains for the new EV components into a China-influence, and Western-influence sphere. Two separate supply chains.
A bit like a cold war. One company I follow has the contracts for its ore linked into Japanese, then EU, refining and production, with signed end-customers. Others currently will ship to be part of the Chinese chain. The gov recently announced 500Mil in support to these producers (guess what the share prices did?). I think they are realising the importance of a separate supply chain.

Re: manufacturing. All nations subsidise, or tilt the table in their favour, when it comes to manufacturing. Except Australia, apparently. Some manipulate currency, some put up tariff walls, some invite manufacturers with free land and very little tax/OH&S, some use cheap labour. I can't see that it will be easy to establish battery supply chains magically and without deep, committed long term government support, if set by the 'market', as it's currently legislated in Oz. The type of support offered over the last decade to our defence industry. Thus Indo's post on page before is true, if it's left to the market. Nissan's operation exists as it is a high quality source, and they've made the figures work. I believe the parts go into the Leaf.

Also it's not just lithium, there's rare earth metals (required in the motors - this may not change while battery technology improvements probably will), cobalt, nickel (note BHP's 1/2 yr report on other thread and how they are positioning, copper... all will be required, in scale.)

There's Aussie tech companies that invest in the brains behind future change in stuff like batteries as well, though I've noticed the performance heavily favours the companies that "sell them dirt". All of this my opinion, not financial advice.

Going to have to have realistic vision, placed in a bedrock of supportive policy, if we want a smart, value-added, clean energy future. I'm still saddened at the loss of our auto manufacturing and all the skillsets and career paths that went with it. Try buying a full time AWD Family SUV for $40,000 that supports local jobs these days... you'll be paying 2 1/2 times this for the same ability now we have no domestic industry.

We also lost BP's solar panel plant:

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/em217/

And Silex's one:

https://www.eco-business.com/news/silex-to-close-only-australian-solar-…

In contrast UK policy decided to back industry in a white paper circa 2010, and have created dedicated hubs for batteries, components. This also underpins JLR, and their other engineering firms. More recently, it bears more fruit:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/nissan-announces-1-8b-uk-ev-hub-c…

no brexit ruin in that announcement...

stunet wrote:

@DSDS,

No, but when it comes to handling the social fallout I know who'd I'd put more trust in.

See also Flollo's point above: "Taking credit for the good state of the economy (for which none of the political parties actually have full control over) during the largest QE in history is the same thing."

What social fallout?

There's no such thing as society, right?

Actually, just out of interest, here's Thatcher's full quote.

"There is no such thing as society. There is a living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

In other words, don't rely on the government, whom we elect to represent us and to whom we pay huge amounts of tax.
She's really saying fuck off and deal with it yourselves.

Of course, if you think between Libs and Labor which one of the two has that ethos, the answer is easy.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Does anyone genuinely believe that the current inflation wouldn’t have occurred if it’d been an ALP government in power during the past few years?

The inflation is global* and I don’t believe that any major party Australian Government would have avoided it. Remember a couple of years ago when MMT was posited as being something besides a magic money printing illusion which devalues every currency which tried it on for size? Funny how those voices have gone quiet now the reality of MOAR money is hitting home.

*Entirely coincidental I’m sure.

Exactly Australian governments have little control claiming it has is BS LNP style.

They do how ever have control over spending (Gov debt) taxes and allocation of capital incentives.

Massive tax breaks for mining / oil and gas by state and federal governments ensures ongoing capital investment despite high wages and yes current pricing is favourable how ever look at gold mining and there are plenty of sites right on the margins grade wise still running.

Negative gearing in housing which makes some wealthy but fails to produce nation income arla Ponzi scheme is a great example of fu(kwit capital allocation incentive.

Lack of manufacturing isn't all about wages as Indo keeps quoting (Germany disproves that) its more cultural mind set (if you have ever worked with German engineering / technical people next level) higher levels of training and capital allocation incentives.

And completely fu(k off American style people management total retards and dropkicks.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Does anyone genuinely believe that the current inflation wouldn’t have occurred if it’d been an ALP government in power during the past few years?

The inflation is global* and I don’t believe that any major party Australian Government would have avoided it. Remember a couple of years ago when MMT was posited as being something besides a magic money printing illusion which devalues every currency which tried it on for size? Funny how those voices have gone quiet now the reality of MOAR money is hitting home.

*Entirely coincidental I’m sure.

True but there is other factors that influence inflation, for instance wage growth has been low but if labor get in and push wages up too fast, its going to be like adding fuel to a fire.

Of course you need wage growth especially with inflation but its a fine balancing act, one you can bet Labor will fuvk right up.

Indo - I rate the duopoly parties thusly :

LNP :

60% corruption
20% incompetence
10% ideology
10% more corruption

ALP :

50% corruption
20% ideology
30% incompetence

As it currently stands, with our secondary national political scandal* being the national descent into unapologetic political corruption, I believe that any chance to halt the descent has to involve removing a party so beholden to corruption. This means the LNP must be removed from power. I take no real optimism with seeing ALP take government but it’s without question that the LNP needs to go and hopefully an unrestricted ICAC with strong retrospective powers is unleashed in order to send the clear message that political corruption will be treated as serious criminal behaviour in Australia.

* Primary political scandal being the narrowing Overton window of democracy we are witnessing with the unmandated imposition of neoliberalism by both parties.

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
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Teflon Dan says 'nothing to see here' (of course).
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/anti-corruption-watchdog-ca…
In effect he's saying "We'll continue with our same corrupt processes until the official report is released, then we'll ignore it".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10761329/Grace-Tame-reduced-TE…

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Mate 2.7 is actually really plausible. I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.

Look at Serie A - an Italian first soccer league. Inter Milan was a leading team, 5 games until the end of the season and they lost last night to Bologna 2-1 which means they are now in the 2nd spot, 2 points behind Milan. They lost due to an unbelievable mistake by their goalkeeper in 81. st, minute who literally missed the ball that was passed back to him by his own player. The ball rolled into the empty goal behind him. With only 9 minutes to go, Inter who is a much richer, stronger team couldn't turn the game around against shitty Bologna.

The odds on Inter were 1.33. The odds on Bologna were 7.5. Even the odds on the draw were 5.5.

So, the point of the analogy is that it looks decent for labor but 2.7 for LNP means that it's far from over. What labor needs to watch out for is last-minute internal sabotage or an unforgivable mistake by their own team with no time to recover. And judging by their poor strategy, it is not unlikely that it might happen.

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Certainly a reflection of Albo being in isolation and not being able fuk up every time he speaks.

Best thing Labor can do is keep his public appearances and interviews to a bare minimum.

But what does that really tell you about Albo when his ratings improve when in hiding and fall when not.

Cockee wrote:

Teflon Dan says 'nothing to see here' (of course).

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/anti-corruption-watchdog-ca…- p5agdx.html

In effect he's saying "We'll continue with our same corrupt processes until the official report is released, then we'll ignore it".

I hope they nail every politician that’s involved in corruption regardless of what party they belong too. This country needs a big clean up , we have been sliding downhill as our ratings show us slipping from 7th to 18th since the LNP came in and 2020-2021 being the biggest slide .

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Certainly a reflection of Albo being in isolation and not being able fuk up every time he speaks.

Best thing Labor can do is keep is public appearances and interviews to a bare minimum.

But what does that really tell you about Albo?

So why is Albo leading the polls as preferred PM ? Maybe slomo should take notice and shut the F up .

flollo wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Mate 2.7 is actually really plausible. I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.

Look at Serie A - an Italian first soccer league. Inter Milan was a leading team, 5 games until the end of the season and they lost last night to Bologna 2-1 which means they are now in the 2nd spot, 2 points behind Milan. They lost due to an unbelievable mistake by their goalkeeper in 81. st, minute who literally missed the ball that was passed back to him by his own player. The ball rolled into the empty goal behind him. With only 9 minutes to go, Inter who is a much richer, stronger team couldn't turn the game around against shitty Bologna.

The odds on Inter were 1.33. The odds on Bologna were 7.5. Even the odds on the draw were 5.5.

So, the point of the analogy is that it looks decent for labor but 2.7 for LNP means that it's far from over. What labor needs to watch out for is last-minute internal sabotage or an unforgivable mistake by their own team with no time to recover. And judging by their poor strategy, it is not unlikely that it might happen.

Flollo , I really like your input on the threads that you comment on , but if you think it’s the Labor party that need to watch for internal sabotage then I’m not sure how much attention you’re paying to what’s going on in the Scott Morrison Party and the ex LNP

it is everywhere...it is all Albo is..a weak nobody
https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/anthony-albanese-spar…

Roadkill writes "it is everywhere...it is all Albo is..a weak nobody"
So you're more of a happy clappy hillsong hawaii hose april sun in little cuba kinda guy, RK?

Sheepdog wrote:

Roadkill writes "it is everywhere...it is all Albo is..a weak nobody"

So you're more of a happy clappy hillsong hawaii hose april sun in little cuba kinda guy, RK?

Is there something wrong with hillsong?

Indo writes "but if labor get in and push wages up too fast, its going to be like adding fuel to a fire."

BUT BUT BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morrison said Labor can't push wages up.
Morrison said " (albo) has no magic pen that makes your wages go up" ..... "He's running around telling everybody he can lift their wages, he can't do that, he knows he can't do that and it's a false promise."

So who's lying, Indo? You? Or Morrison?

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/scott-morrison-takes…

What the fritz is that sound??

Sounds like gears grinding.

Kinda sounds like it's coming from down near the Mornington Peninsula.

Whatever could it be??

Sheepdog wrote:

Indo writes "but if labor get in and push wages up too fast, its going to be like adding fuel to a fire."

BUT BUT BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Morrison said Labor can't push wages up.

Morrison said " (albo) has no magic pen that makes your wages go up" ..... "He's running around telling everybody he can lift their wages, he can't do that, he knows he can't do that and it's a false promise."

So who's lying, Indo? You? Or Morrison?

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/scott-morrison-takes…

Im sure there is ways to lift wages, for example lifting the min wage, the problem is its already the highest in the world and not by a small margin its almost $1USD higher than the next country Luxembourg and raising it even higher has serious implications for Aussie business.

Obviously unions can put pressure on business to lift wages and we all know labor is basically run by unions. (LNP don't have that same power/infulence)

Personally id much rather see wages naturally rise as they will with inflation.

BTW. Sharing a different opinion or view is not lying.

Supafreak wrote:

flollo wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Mate 2.7 is actually really plausible. I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.

Look at Serie A - an Italian first soccer league. Inter Milan was a leading team, 5 games until the end of the season and they lost last night to Bologna 2-1 which means they are now in the 2nd spot, 2 points behind Milan. They lost due to an unbelievable mistake by their goalkeeper in 81. st, minute who literally missed the ball that was passed back to him by his own player. The ball rolled into the empty goal behind him. With only 9 minutes to go, Inter who is a much richer, stronger team couldn't turn the game around against shitty Bologna.

The odds on Inter were 1.33. The odds on Bologna were 7.5. Even the odds on the draw were 5.5.

So, the point of the analogy is that it looks decent for labor but 2.7 for LNP means that it's far from over. What labor needs to watch out for is last-minute internal sabotage or an unforgivable mistake by their own team with no time to recover. And judging by their poor strategy, it is not unlikely that it might happen.

Flollo , I really like your input on the threads that you comment on , but if you think it’s the Labor party that need to watch for internal sabotage then I’m not sure how much attention you’re paying to what’s going on in the Scott Morrison Party and the ex LNP

Haha, no I don't think it will happen. But one needs to be cautious. I reckon they are due to a 'small target' mentality. My comment is more about the odds, based on what the majority here is saying I would expect it to easily be much higher.

Supafreak wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

It clearly hasn’t been the best week for the Scott Morrison Party.
free image hosting

Certainly a reflection of Albo being in isolation and not being able fuk up every time he speaks.

Best thing Labor can do is keep is public appearances and interviews to a bare minimum.

But what does that really tell you about Albo?

So why is Albo leading the polls as preferred PM ? Maybe slomo should take notice and shut the F up .

He's not, Scomo is just ahead of Albo as preferred PM.

Labor are ahead of LNP as preferred government though.

"Morrison increases lead as preferred prime minister
April 26, 2022 - 6:42AM

Results of the latest Newspoll show Prime Minister Scott Morrison has extended his lead over Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese as the preferred prime minister, despite a dip in approval ratings."

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/morrison-increases-l…

Depends which poll you look at indo , some polls have albo 40 slomo 38 A few more of those polled were able to decide on a preferred prime minister this time around, with 40 per cent opting for Labor leader Anthony Albanese, up from 38, and 38 per cent choosing incumbent PM Scott Morrison, up from 37. https://www.9news.com.au/national/federal-election-2022-newspoll-and-ip…

Roadkill "Is there something wrong with hillsong ?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH , Not if you're a dimwitted gullible moron!!

Indo writes "BTW. Sharing a different opinion or view is not lying."

So you're saying Morrison is wrong? That your comment - "if labor get in and push wages up too fast, its going to be like adding fuel to a fire" is correct?

And that Morrisons claims are wrong? - " (albo) has no magic pen that makes your wages go up"- "He's running around telling everybody he can lift their wages, he can't do that, he knows he can't do that and it's a false promise"
Your view is correct and the prime minister is incorrect? yes or no?

DAW wrote:

Roadkill "Is there something wrong with hillsong ?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH , Not if you're a dimwitted gullible moron!!

it's a good place to pickup chicks...