Commandment 6 Indo.

Oh peanut man id…
These religions make amendments to their spiritual constitutions to suit themselves and any scenario ;)

In Islam for instance, the Holy Quran in no way justifies murder; it unequivocally states, “Whosoever killed a person … it shall be as if he had killed all mankind” (5:32). Such acts of violence are condemned in the Quran and by the Prophet Muhammad time and time again…

And look how that turned out.

Jelly Flater wrote:

They often pretend to agree on and preach the ‘thou shalt not kill’ bit…

- but nobody actually really adheres to it.

Got that part in common…

Interesting ;)

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title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Fuck off @info, I didn’t ask you the question and I’m nolonger interested in engaging you on the green sewer mist stench you leave on the forums

Now optimist, was Michael having a lend of me or do you as a fundamental christian really believe that last judgement day (that you keep referencing) stuff about the Jews?

seeds wrote:

Commandment 6 Indo.

Argh you are correct. ;P

These books are full of contraction's

And they always find versus etc to justify things anyway like this

"Justified killing: in warfare
Further information: Herem (war or property)
The ancient Hebrew texts make a distinction between the moral and legal prohibition of shedding of innocent blood and killing in battle.[29] Rabbi Marc Gellman explains the distinction between "harag" (killing) and "ratzah" (murder) and notes the different moral connotations. "...there is wide moral agreement (not complete agreement) that some forms of killing are morally just, and killing an enemy combatant during wartime is one of them."[30] For example, the Torah prohibits murder, but sanctions killing in legitimate battle.[31][32] The Bible often praises the exploits of soldiers against enemies in legitimate battle. One of David's mighty men is credited with killing eight hundred men with the spear,[33] and Abishai is credited with killing three hundred men.[34]

The 613 Mitzvot extend the notion of lawful killing to the nations that inhabited the Promised Land, commanding to exterminate them completely. Deuteronomy 20:10–18 establishes rules on killing civilians in warfare:

the population of cities outside of the Promised Land, if they surrender, should be made tributaries and left alive (20:10–11)
those cities outside of the Promised Land that resist should be besieged, and once they fall, the male population should be exterminated, but the women and children should be left alive (20:12–15)
of those cities that were within the Promised Land, however, everybody was to be killed.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill

BTW. Israrelis and even Jews aren't necessarily religious though being a Jew is a funny thing in one sense its an ethnicity and culture in another its a religion, for example you can be Jewish but an atheists

GuySmiley wrote:

Fuck off @info, I didn’t ask you the question and I’m nolonger interested in engaging you on the green sewer mist stench you leave on the forums

Now optimist, was Michael having a lend of me or do you as a fundamental christian really believe that last judgement day (that you keep referencing) stuff about the Jews?

Your not interested in engaging with me?

Does that mean your not going to follow me around like a lost puppy?

I really dont think you will be able to help yourself.

Oh and BTW while you claim my views are this or that, i saw this Australian wide poll last night and hmm your views were in the minority mine the clear majority.

andy-mac wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regard to all these Aljazeera media links & videos, It should be noted its always been considered very bias in favour of middle east islam and even has a history of some very questionable links and support including of known terrorist .

Its head quarters was even bombed by Israel a few years back (they gave them a few hours to get out)

Id take any of their view's with a huge grain of salt in the same way others would with any of the Israel main stream media news companies.

But Sky news on the other hand.

Recommend watching 'Ordinary Men' on Netflix. Very heavy but people need to understand situations that lead to mass murder.

The language being thrown around in this latest ME escalation from both sides is terrifying.

Trying to understand the why to stop killings happening rather than just taking sides should be priority.

No winners in this situation...

Just watched Ordinary Men Andy, pretty lost for words really. That was hard to watch.
The real life footage is very very sad

There's obviously some loopholes in the "thou shall not kill" thing if God has the power to forgive murderers, even mass murderers.

goofyfoot wrote:

andy-mac wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regard to all these Aljazeera media links & videos, It should be noted its always been considered very bias in favour of middle east islam and even has a history of some very questionable links and support including of known terrorist .

Its head quarters was even bombed by Israel a few years back (they gave them a few hours to get out)

Id take any of their view's with a huge grain of salt in the same way others would with any of the Israel main stream media news companies.

But Sky news on the other hand.

Recommend watching 'Ordinary Men' on Netflix. Very heavy but people need to understand situations that lead to mass murder.

The language being thrown around in this latest ME escalation from both sides is terrifying.

Trying to understand the why to stop killings happening rather than just taking sides should be priority.

No winners in this situation...

Just watched Ordinary Men Andy, pretty lost for words really. That was hard to watch.

The real life footage is very very sad

Yeah I watched that a few weeks ago. The archival footage & photos are truly disturbing to say the very least.

Jelly Flater wrote:

…and these ummm ‘bullshitting you tube videos’ ;);)

They need to cop a belting.

The real problem in Israel personified.

Rabbits68 wrote:

goofyfoot wrote:

andy-mac wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regard to all these Aljazeera media links & videos, It should be noted its always been considered very bias in favour of middle east islam and even has a history of some very questionable links and support including of known terrorist .

Its head quarters was even bombed by Israel a few years back (they gave them a few hours to get out)

Id take any of their view's with a huge grain of salt in the same way others would with any of the Israel main stream media news companies.

But Sky news on the other hand.

Recommend watching 'Ordinary Men' on Netflix. Very heavy but people need to understand situations that lead to mass murder.

The language being thrown around in this latest ME escalation from both sides is terrifying.

Trying to understand the why to stop killings happening rather than just taking sides should be priority.

No winners in this situation...

Just watched Ordinary Men Andy, pretty lost for words really. That was hard to watch.

The real life footage is very very sad

Yeah I watched that a few weeks ago. The archival footage & photos are truly disturbing to say the very least.

Yeah very confronting.
Humans are capable of doing the most beautiful things as well as the most abhorrent....
Chris Hedges wrote of similar human responses in this book.

https://www.amazon.com/War-Force-that-Gives-Meaning/dp/1400034639

War should be avoided at all costs.

Alana_a wrote:

Jelly Flater wrote:

…and these ummm ‘bullshitting you tube videos’ ;);)

They need to cop a belting.

They are copping it in a way, because more people see this behaviour and see how abhorrent it is, and then they get to wonder whey there is so much support internationally for the other side. It's a good example of how hating others only hurts yourself.

How much bang for your buck?
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-aid-spending-israel-military-defense…

Obviously you can feel sympathy for everyday people on either side whom are victims and no side is perfect and whatever side you support it doesn't mean you agree with all that they do or all that happens, but end of the day you still need to take some kind of stance.

The question is who are you going to stand with?

Israel a multicultural multi religious democratic country who have a history of being willing to find a compromise like a two state solution, if they had their way there would be a chance of peace and society and values on the Israel state would be much more similar to ours and the supporters you stand by are our own allies like Aus, USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy etc

Or are you going to stand with Palestine & Hamas and other radical groups and stand alongside the side that dont want any compromise what so ever and actually say they wont be happy until every Jew is dead, whom values are completely different to ours and make a conservative like me quite literally look woke because i dont think gays or those of other religions should be in prison or dead or women treated like trash, and those you stand with are countries like Iran, Qatar, Syria, Lebanon and quite literally most islamic terrorist groups..

Does my head in that anyone can take the latter stance, especially those on the left.

@indo, two state solution was destroyed, when Israel started building on and populating disputed territories. No-one with power and influence seems to be working for that anymore in any workable way, seems an impossible dream.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Obviously you can feel sympathy for everyday people on either side whom are victims and no side is perfect and whatever side you support it doesn't mean you agree with all that they do or all that happens, but end of the day you still need to take some kind of stance.

The question is who are you going to stand with?

Israel a multicultural multi religious democratic country who have a history of being willing to find a compromise like a two state solution, if they had their way there would be a chance of peace and society and values on the Israel state would be much more similar to ours and the supporters you stand by are our own allies like Aus, USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy etc

Or are you going to stand with Palestine & Hamas and other radical groups and stand alongside the side that dont want any compromise what so ever and actually say they wont be happy until every Jew is dead, whom values are completely different to ours and make a conservative like me quite literally look woke because i dont think gays or those of other religions should be in prison or dead or women treated like trash, and those you stand with are countries like Iran, Qatar, Syria, Lebanon and quite literally most islamic terrorist groups..

Does my head in that anyone can take the latter stance, especially those on the left.

Indo the only stance you need to take is to agree that bullet riddled children are just as abhorrent as children killed by shock waves from a bomb launched miles away from a state of the art killing machine. That's it - no ifs or buts - left side or right side.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Obviously you can feel sympathy for everyday people on either side whom are victims and no side is perfect and whatever side you support it doesn't mean you agree with all that they do or all that happens, but end of the day you still need to take some kind of stance.

The question is who are you going to stand with?

Israel a multicultural multi religious democratic country who have a history of being willing to find a compromise like a two state solution, if they had their way there would be a chance of peace and society and values on the Israel state would be much more similar to ours and the supporters you stand by are our own allies like Aus, USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy etc

Or are you going to stand with Palestine & Hamas and other radical groups and stand alongside the side that dont want any compromise what so ever and actually say they wont be happy until every Jew is dead, whom values are completely different to ours and make a conservative like me quite literally look woke because i dont think gays or those of other religions should be in prison or dead or women treated like trash, and those you stand with are countries like Iran, Qatar, Syria, Lebanon and quite literally most islamic terrorist groups..

Does my head in that anyone can take the latter stance, especially those on the left.

Although I understand and agree with some of your comment, some of what you have written is incorrect.
2 state solution was sabotaged by continual new developments on disputed land, illegal settlements. A lot of these settlements consisted of right-wing religious fundamentalist elements who were outright hostile and violent towards local Palestinians with the backing of IDF.
There are Jews that are calling for total expulsion of all Arabs from Israel.
Don't want to go on with whataboutisms, but all the power lies with Israel and the USA, and they have not been using this power in a fair manner in a lot of people's opinions.
No sides here from me, the whole thing is dreadful and hope calmer heads prevail.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/15/examples-jewish-arab-soli…

The Palestinians have rejected numerous opportunities to create an independent state.
https://besacenter.org/palestinian-rejectionism/
Hamas not only wants israel obliterated - it wants ALL jews dead and then us - western non-believers scum. Think about it.
There are more than 2 billion muslims in the world and 50 Muslim-majority countries.
Compare that to the 16 million jews and 1 country..... but the power lies with USA and Israel? Go figure.

The whole "we need to give context defence" is pretty disgusting in the light of what has happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-dispute-hi…

Can’t we all just get along ;)

bonza wrote:

The Palestinians have rejected numerous opportunities to create an independent state.

https://besacenter.org/palestinian-rejectionism/

Hamas not only wants israel obliterated - it wants ALL jews dead and then us - western non-believers scum. Think about it.

There are more than 2 billion muslims in the world and 50 Muslim-majority countries.

Compare that to the 16 million jews and 1 country..... but the power lies with USA and Israel? Go figure.

The whole "we need to give context defence" is pretty disgusting in the light of what has happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

100% thats just the hard reality, so sadly there will never be peace and the cycle will just continue.

Best case scenario at this stage is Israel somehow get's rid of Hamas and regains control of Gaza and allows the Palestine people to come back live and rebuild and there is a new elected government with regular elections and hopefully the new government isn't a terrorist organisation, the alternative of Fatah seems a far better political group in many regards.

At least that way Israel can prevent being regularly attacked from Gaza and only have to worry about other areas.

The problem is to regain control and get rid of Hamas its going to be ugly, just doing what they have sending people south is ugly, but it would be much worst if they tried to get rid of Hamas with civilians there..

indo-dreaming wrote:

bonza wrote:

The Palestinians have rejected numerous opportunities to create an independent state.

https://besacenter.org/palestinian-rejectionism/

Hamas not only wants israel obliterated - it wants ALL jews dead and then us - western non-believers scum. Think about it.

There are more than 2 billion muslims in the world and 50 Muslim-majority countries.

Compare that to the 16 million jews and 1 country..... but the power lies with USA and Israel? Go figure.

The whole "we need to give context defence" is pretty disgusting in the light of what has happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

100% thats just the hard reality, so sadly there will never be peace and the cycle will just continue.

Best case scenario at this stage is Israel somehow get's rid of Hamas and regains control of Gaza and allows the Palestine people to come back live and rebuild and there is a new elected government with regular elections and hopefully the new government isn't a terrorist organisation, the alternative of Fatah seems a far better political group in many regards.

At least that way Israel can prevent being regularly attacked from Gaza and only have to worry about other areas.

The problem is to regain control and get rid of Hamas its going to be ugly, just doing what they have sending people south is ugly, but it would be much worst if they tried to get rid of Hamas with civilians there..

Not as simple as that.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-p…

An interesting point to note…
- netanyahu was in serious political trouble over the last few years and, especially, leading up to the current events we are witnessing.

After his corruption trials (where he went full scomo and just dismissed all accusations and findings) bibi has been battling constant internal division and calls for him to resign and be prosecuted.

Odd that it has all been put aside now while using war and terror as a tool to try unite a deeply divided people and parliament…
The warnings by Egypt days before the hamas attacks are also a curious fact to consider.

- is this present situation an effort to deflect and deceive for one’s political survival, an opportunity to galvanise patriotic support and a cynical attempt to hold onto power ?

It may be foolish to ignore or underestimate the grip of manipulation, from both sides, when dealing with such extreme religious ideology. This conflict has been a pressure cooker for decades and the scenario for israel now could be described as the perfect storm.

Same could be said for players like iran…

But… surely bibi is just a good ol fashioned former soldier with good intentions and a mutual love for his people and all humanity, with an actual vision for peace and stability… ;)

- seems, though, (like most ‘leaders’) he may just be another murderous war monger using the ideal of democracy as an excuse to inflict pain and misery on the ‘enemy’.
(An enemy that is just as barbaric, disingenuous and destructive… )

The whole ‘wipe them off the face of earth’ doctrine doesn’t work. Never has, never will.

And, again…
There are no goodies… no baddies.
No sides.
No winners.
For now… just death.

- and all these fuckers still reckon they’re doin god’s work.

Lie$$$

Some good links you posted @andy-mac… stats n facts.

Great vid JF. No blinkers on

Yep.... No blinkers indeed.

Ol’ mate must have skipped the Hamas charter bit about death to all Jews and the destruction of Israel. No exception. How does one negotiate with that?

If Israelis were such the monsters the world makes them out to be given all that military hardware and support from the US why haven’t they just wiped out the Palestinians already?

Given things were more equal, if Hamas had the industrial weaponry, given their charter and their ideology, what would the situation be instead?

And here is the comparison of military power.

Image from here https://www.tbsnews.net/features/panorama/israel-vs-hamas-battlefield-w…

BTW. That soldier number of 80K doesn't seem correct most sources say 15K to 30K article says Hamas but maybe that includes other Palestine groups too.

And " The State of Israel requires every Israeli citizen over the age of 18 who is Jewish, Druze or Circassian to serve in the Israel Defense Forces (although there are some notable exceptions). Other Israeli Arabs, religious women, married individuals, and those deemed unfit medically or mentally are exempt from compulsory military service. Regardless of those exemptions, many of those exempt from military service do volunteer to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Once enlisted, men are expected to serve for a minimum of 32 months and women are expected to serve for a minimum of 24 months."

So even a large amount of civilians are well trained.

The blinkers are back on for the next lap.

Bonza

bonza wrote:

Ol’ mate must have skipped the Hamas charter bit about death to all Jews and the destruction of Israel. No exception. How does one negotiate with that?

If Israelis were such the monsters the world makes them out to be given all that military hardware and support from the US why haven’t they just wiped out the Palestinians already?

Given things were more equal, if Hamas had the industrial weaponry, given their charter and their ideology, what would the situation be instead?

No mate, Hamas are vile, but again you try and simplify a complicated situation. Goodies v Badies
Stats more telling in case you missed it. From 2008 - 2020.
Palestinian deaths 5590
Israeli deaths 251.

But yeah a Palestinian life not worth as much as an Israeli ey.

Hamas should be wiped out, Israel has every right to do as they are doing. The hypocrisy on display from many is something else. No mercy should be given.

Roadkill wrote:

Hamas should be wiped out, Israel has every right to do as they are doing. The hypocrisy on display from many is something else. No mercy should be given.

So you're ok with industrial scale killing and the mass murder of thousands of innocent civilians?
That's what looks like is about to happen.
Revenge is sweet ey.. giddy up.

This video is a great run down on the history and different aspects from a Jewish tour guide and uses a lot of stats and historic evidence for different points.

Roadkill wrote:

Hamas should be wiped out, Israel has every right to do as they are doing. The hypocrisy on display from many is something else. No mercy should be given.

And how do you plan on doing this roadkill? How many innocent people dying is ok for you?

@ Roadkill, so you are all good with the killing of innocent civilians in densely populated areas? Nice.......
Was your coffee over expressed again this morning?

Oh road dill… you must be campaigning to be chief gumboot.

- don’t worry bout the hypocrisy of saying one’s army will abide by international law but then actually going right ahead and breaking international law by cutting off water, electricity and medical supplies, bombing residential buildings… along with using white phosphorus in a populated urban area full of civilians.

Hmmm… the ummm… the hypocrisy on display IS something else ;)

- it’s horrible if our children die but ok if it’s yours…
Not sure this philosophy can work. Ever.

Kind of hypocritical.

fitzroy-21 wrote:

@ Roadkill, so you are all good with the killing of innocent civilians in densely populated areas? Nice.......

Was your coffee over expressed again this morning?

Its not an easy task to get rid of Hamas without other causalities, but thats the reason why Israel have told civilians to get out and move south to the safe zone, then Israel will go in and try to take out Hamas.

Its not perfect but its better than trying to get rid of Hamas with civilians there, Israel gave them 24hrs to get out but thankfully that has now extended to days longer due to Israel not going in because of bad weather, sand storms etc that mess with Israel surveillance drones that are important for the mission.

Hamas is mostly underground they have hundreds of kilometres of tunnels to hide and move around, luckily Israel have obtained all kinds of physical maps etc

I was home sick in bed with gastreo yesterday, much better now but still got to look after daughter today so I watched way to many YouTube videos and articles, super interesting though, same with some of the historic archaeological discoveries like ancient Jewish coins from thousands of years ago found all through Israel, to huge roman sites buried beneath the sand almost totally preserved, and even historical evidence and sites reconfirming Arab history in Gaza.

How easy for us here living in a nice 1st world mostly peaceful non violent country…to want others to basically take no real actions when the neighbours come over and kill your babies, rape your wives, torture and murder sons and brothers. Hamas will never be peaceful or take the road of non violence…do nothing and they will do the same again.

I would love you guys to tell me exactly what Israel should do?

I bet not one of you has any real suggestions how to fix the mess?

Over to you all…how would you deal with it?

China calling for calm and peace and negotiation…was the funniest thing.

Haha dill boy
Calm down and get the rocket outta your arse ;)

‘ Hamas will never be peaceful or take the road of non violence…’

Same with the idf you dumb fuck.
- notice the …ummm …hypocrisy;)

Both sides kill.
Both blame the other.
Both are in the wrong.

- israel to stop colonising illegally with settlements is a start.

But… yeah… well done with the call for no mercy.
Gumboot extraordinaire ;)

Maybe try the dialogue, diplomacy and mutual respect path first ay numbnuts…

fitzroy-21 wrote:

@ Roadkill, so you are all good with the killing of innocent civilians in densely populated areas? Nice.......

Was your coffee over expressed again this morning?

That’s the way…instead of answering you pull the “you are good with killing innocent civilians..piss weak mate.

No surprise burleigh pulled the same weak reply/stunt.

No one is good with civilian deaths.

Jelly Flater wrote:

Haha dill boy

Calm down and get the rocket outta your arse ;)

‘ Hamas will never be peaceful or take the road of non violence…’

Same with the idf you dumb fuck.

- notice the …ummm …hypocrisy;)

Both sides kill.

Both blame the other.

Both are in the wrong.

- israel to stop colonising illegally with settlements is a start.

But… yeah… well done with the call for no mercy.

Gumboot extraordinaire ;)

Maybe try the dialogue, diplomacy and mutual respect path first ay numbnuts…

[quote=Jelly Flater]Haha dill boy
Calm down and get the rocket outta your arse ;)

‘ Hamas will never be peaceful or take the road of non violence…’

Same with the idf you dumb fuck.
- notice the …ummm …hypocrisy;)

Both sides kill.
Both blame the other.
Both are in the wrong.

- israel to stop colonising illegally with settlements is a start.

But… yeah… well done with the call for no mercy.
Gumboot extraordinaire ;)

Maybe try the dialogue, diplomacy and mutual respect path first ay numbnuts…how can you try this first AFTER Hamas has attacked and killed?

If you think Hamas has mutual respect path? Then you are at peak stupidity and beyond clueless

Roadkill wrote:

Hamas should be wiped out, Israel has every right to do as they are doing. No mercy should be given.

My answer to giving a solution was as broad as your statement above. But do carry on.....

“Maybe try the dialogue, diplomacy and mutual respect path first ay numbnuts…”

Gotcha.

road dill, the man who wanted someone charged with murder if his mum caught covid off them and died now ok with tens of thousands of civilian deaths in a war. Actually encouraging it.

The DILL

Geez dill ;)

You’re enjoying that rocket the further up it goes…