burleigh wrote:

Stok, what do you think about Isreal and their information about the 4th dose?

Want to put your head up your own ass to dodge this question also?

Coming from the king of dodge. bwaaaaaahahahahha
I demand you answer me, Stok!

Stok wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

End of the day it all comes down to two things

1.

Q= Are children below 12 at risk of serious illness or death from Covid?

A= All the stats show clearly that no they are not at risk.

2

Q.=Does the vaccine prevent transmission?

A= Seeing both Aust & Israel have some of the highest tax rates in the world but also the two fastest Omicron growth rates, clearly they don't.

So why do kids need Covid vaxing again????

Surely its makes much more sense on educating parents on the real risk to children and concentrating on spending money and resources on getting his risk groups vaxed/bosted like the elderly.

I can attest I don't know the answers to this. I have young kids myself, who've both had covid and seemingly were/are fine. If they were of school age I'd be questioning whether to race off and get them vaccinated for sure.

But one thing I'm 100% sure of, is that this is a fucking tricky topic, best kept off a surf website where 75% of posters share essentially anti vax propaganda day in day out.

I'd probably go to a doctor, or ask a family member (who is a doctor), and make the decision personally myself. I wouldn't try to push my personal choice on others.

If it became mandated, for some reason, that kids get vaccinated (which it's not), I'd listen to the experts, and realise that only in fantasy land (i.e. Burleigh's head) would any expert body in Australia mandate the vaccination of kids without fully assessing and considering the risks to children and society as a whole.

Good post, Stok, sensible and to the point.
We have two sides on this 'chat' with very strong opinions on both sides, and plenty of degrading silly comments attacking at a personal level - which does nothing to assist the conversation / discussions either way. My gut-feel is that neither extreme will meet the other half-way, so there's really no point in abusing each other about it - unless this 'venting' feels good to you; it does nothing for me, so I'll not bother posting here anymore after this one. It's quite obvious that many of the 'tough guys' throwing insults at each other wouldn't do so if they were sitting opposite on a table having a beer or two and a chat. It's really quite sad, actually.

I guess I was hopeful that posting some factual stats about death vs population rate would make some people stop and reconsider the data, but that appears to not be the case - or those in question simply can't allow themselves to 'pause and think' for a bit. I can certainly understand the way entrenched views can lock people into a position which is hard to give up later. But ultimately the stats are in, the results are conclusive: the death rate is higher for those unvaxxed when averaged across the population. There is no argument about this - it is a simple math / stats fact now.

Earlier on, before solid stats data on death rates was available, the anti-vaxxers had something to hang on to, i.e., no large-scale proof that vaccination worked. Unfortunately for them, that proof is in on a global scale, across huge numbers of different age groups, races, vaccination types and approaches. Are they a cure-all? No. Do they completely prevent serious illness / death? No. Do they reduce those two aspects? YES.

For me personally I was hesitant about the booster shots as it seemed like this is a path meaning huge amounts of money to be spent and time for booking appts, going, etc. I wanted to be sure that this was actually necessary and had to spend quite a while looking for the two aspects related to this: firm proof via large-scale statistical study or studies showing that vaccination effectiveness dropped over time (found via the UK health research results), and - if so - a similar study showing the boosting of effectiveness from another vax shot (found via the Israel study, now amongst others). I'm not going to post those links here, they can be found reasonably easily, but do take some reading through to gain the basic outcome: yes, the effectiveness drops, and yes, a booster helps again. But please check through the data / links shown in the "References" section from here if you wish to see for yourself: https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/atagi-r…

Stok said “ You see, this is why this thread needs to be closed.
Matilda here's just waltzed in and cut n pasted a post they saw, and liked, on TRUMP2024's Facebook page, didn't even bother to change the American spelling of immunisation, and BlueDiamond's cheering it on. “ …….what’s next stok ? Book burning ? All social media sites to be shut down ? All news reports except the TNI to be banned ? Again if you don’t like this forum……. Don’t read it .

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-20/tga-approves-antiviral-covid-pil…

Burleigh, I did share my thoughts on the Israel 4 doses thing the other day, I mean, it's been shared 500 times since then in various formats on this thread so I understand you thinking I may have dodged it.

The basic premise of it, as I remember, is that 4 doses didn't seem to give the boost in immunity against Omicron compared with 3. There's a short, 2 week study which is inconclusive.

My main response is - so fucking what?

We're talking about 3 doses here in Australia. 4 doses in inconclusive.

If you step out of your echo chamber where you and your anti vax mates dream up dystopian futures where everyone will get a vaccine booster monthly for covid for the rest of your lives, you may realise that properly qualified experts are still assessing things - you know, the ones you claim we shouldn't listen to. They're actually the ones saying 4 doses in not proven effective as yet.

"Sypkan, I can't grant you a shred of credibility, when you respond to my fairly open comments about following advice of professors and health leaders in your country by sharing the most black and white, one sided, emotive, republican piece of text I've seen in a long time."

'fairly open comments'

you had about six paragraphs abusing people

stok, you are a tool

https://www.science.org/content/article/what-does-omicron-mean-future-c…

Matilda0213 wrote:

Sorry i could of put quotation marks if you like but i didnt find it on any trump page. Just thought it sums up this thread and societys mental state pretty well. Ive encouraged people to get vaccinated im just shocked at the division its created in this country and many others.

Fair call Matilda, but rest assured, the division is almost purely created by anti vax propagandists, and far right 'freedom fighter' social media commentators. these people planted seeds everywhere, and are continuously 'crop dusting' with further divisive and emotive content designed to make you distrust the Governments.

@Supa - no, not at all. Don't get carried away. But I don't like this thread, and I don't like it living on one of my favourite surf sites. I would actually pose a question to Ben/Stu as to the merits of keeping this thread. Of course, closing it would create the roar of 'censorship'! But leaving it open just creates a platform for people to anonymously push their anti vax tripe out on to anyone who'll dare to click.

@ Sypkan - Lol!

blindboy wrote:

".....there is no evidence that healthy children need booster doses of COVID-19 vaccine."

No, because to the best of my knowledge there has been insufficient time anywhere, following their second shot, for enough data to be gathered. No evidence is exactly that. We don't know. The context of the statement was the importance of provoding booster shots to vulnerable populations. The danger of taking her statement completely out of context and posting it publicly is that it will, as intended, mislead people into thinking (a) they will never be necessary and/or (b) children do not need to be vaccinated at all. Par for the course for one of the usual ratbags.

but it is not just about boosters bindboy

"There are currently no efficacy or safety data for children below the age of 12 years. Until such data are available, individuals below 12 years of age should not be routinely vaccinated.'

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-can-take-the-p…

and it was not out of context if you watched the vid

Stok wrote:

Matilda0213 wrote:

Sorry i could of put quotation marks if you like but i didnt find it on any trump page. Just thought it sums up this thread and societys mental state pretty well. Ive encouraged people to get vaccinated im just shocked at the division its created in this country and many others.

Fair call Matilda, but rest assured, the division is almost purely created by anti vax propagandists, and far right 'freedom fighter' social media commentators. these people planted seeds everywhere, and are continuously 'crop dusting' with further divisive and emotive content designed to make you distrust the Governments.

What a good little whipping boy you are Stok,
The government are doing a marvellous job of making people distrust all by themselves.

You just want someone to blame.

You’ve taken the title of the biggest tool in this thread by a mile.

Stok wrote:

Burleigh, I did share my thoughts on the Israel 4 doses thing the other day, I mean, it's been shared 500 times since then in various formats on this thread so I understand you thinking I may have dodged it.

The basic premise of it, as I remember, is that 4 doses didn't seem to give the boost in immunity against Omicron compared with 3. There's a short, 2 week study which is inconclusive.

My main response is - so fucking what?

We're talking about 3 doses here in Australia. 4 doses in inconclusive.

If you step out of your echo chamber where you and your anti vax mates dream up dystopian futures where everyone will get a vaccine booster monthly for covid for the rest of your lives, you may realise that properly qualified experts are still assessing things - you know, the ones you claim we shouldn't listen to. They're actually the ones saying 4 doses in not proven effective as yet.

Lol

supa, ethical publishers fact check and remove misinformation from their sites or publish retractions if it appeared in hard copy. Ben has admitted in an earlier exchange that Swellnet is a publisher. Bottom line is that he is responsible for everything that appears in the forums. If his business model does not enable moderation, the forums should be closed, or at least restricted to the editorial content. This is not censorship, it is ethical behaviour. How would you feel about regular posts on the benefits of heroin addiction? Now that's an idea! He might actually have to do something then.

blindboy wrote:

"Direct benefits against COVID-19 in children

The paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine has been demonstrated to reduce COVID-19 in children 5-11 years of age. Within an ongoing clinical trial evaluating the paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine in children aged 6 months to 11 years of age, results have been reported for the age group 5 to 11 years.10 Among 2186 trial participants aged 5 to 11 years without evidence of prior COVID-19 infection, two doses of 10μg of paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine were 90.7% effective (95% CI [confidence interval]: 67.7 to 98.3%) at preventing laboratory-confirmed symptomatic COVID-19 from day 7 after dose 2 (with an interval of 3 weeks between doses). This was based on 3 observed cases among 1305 paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine recipients compared to 16 cases among 663 placebo recipients reported between July and September 2021. The three cases in the paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine group were mild and without fever, whereas most cases in the placebo group had documented fever. Multiple other symptoms were also observed more frequently among cases in the placebo group. There were no cases of severe COVID-19 in either group.

The paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine has been shown to be immunogenic. Neutralising antibody titres after two 10μg doses of the paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine in 264 participants aged 5 to 11 years were comparable to those observed in 253 trial participants aged 16- to 25-year-old who received two 30μg doses of the adolescent/adult formulation, with a geometric mean ratio of 1.04 (95% CI: 0.93 to 1.18).10 The proportion achieving seroconversion was 99.2%. Additionally, in a small subset of 34 children studied who received the paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, the increase in neutralisation titre against the Delta variant strain from pre-vaccination to after dose 2 was similar to the fold-increase observed for the reference strain (29.5- and 36.5-fold, respectively)."

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/atagi-r…

that's a lot of words and jargon...

to say, that vaccines take the already very mild effects of covid in children, and make them marginally milder...

certainly doesn't confrm children 'need' to be vaccinated

and as you so begrudgingly axknowledge, there's not enough 'evidence' yet to confirm the efficacy of boosters... amongst a heap of things...

so, pushing revolving door vaccines on kids is probably a little premature

probably, definitely, a lot...

burleigh wrote:

You’ve taken the title of the biggest tool in this thread by a mile.

Coming from you Burleigh, I'll take that as a little win :)

blindboy wrote:

supa, ethical publishers fact check and remove misinformation from their sites or publish retractions if it appeared in hard copy. Ben has admitted in an earlier exchange that Swellnet is a publisher. Bottom line is that he is responsible for everything that appears in the forums. If his business model does not enable moderation, the forums should be closed, or at least restricted to the editorial content. This is not censorship, it is ethical behaviour. How would you feel about regular posts on the benefits of heroin addiction? Now that's an idea! He might actually have to do something then.

Yep....there might just be some misinformation in this thread....you know, just a couple of hundred posts here and there.

burleigh wrote:

Stok wrote:

Robo wrote:

Think you mean the vaxers are scared lol

I love this trope, always get a good laugh when i see it. And I see it so much.

Anti vaxxers thinking people are getting vaccinated and responding effectively to a pandemic by following health advice, out of 'fear'.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

You know what hides fear, or is an attempt to hide fear? Denial. Denial that this is a serious disease, denial that actions need to be taken to mitigate it.

You know what shows fear? Not getting vaccinated because you reject the medical advice that the vaccines are safe and effective, but instead listened to one of the myriad of shameless grifters telling you that you're actually better off not doing anything, and you might die if you do get vaccinated.

Wrong again Stok. It takes courage to stand up against the system.

Unlike your little piss weak self, who loves to be dominated by some deranged power loving premier.

Some people just like being told what to do

TGA has approved Novavax...
Know some who were holding out for this, so I guess good news ..

@BB , which varient was your study referring too ? Do you think the risk benefit analysis needs to change for omicron ? I noticed in your post that no children in either group got very sick . Also I now know more than 10 parents whose children age 6 and under have contracted and quickly recovered from covid in a few days , do you think these children should now be vaccinated ? Or any children that have recovered from covid ?

blindboy wrote:

supa, ethical publishers fact check and remove misinformation from their sites or publish retractions if it appeared in hard copy. Ben has admitted in an earlier exchange that Swellnet is a publisher. Bottom line is that he is responsible for everything that appears in the forums. If his business model does not enable moderation, the forums should be closed, or at least restricted to the editorial content. This is not censorship, it is ethical behaviour. How would you feel about regular posts on the benefits of heroin addiction? Now that's an idea! He might actually have to do something then.

Yep, even Craig had a shot at me with my stats from yesterday I got from Mid Coast Area Health lol, (didn't suit his narrative) with no evidence of his own he showed.

You can say whatever you want on here to someone, with the most foul language one could dream up. Viclocal is the king, he wouldn't say to your face though I bet, small dog syndrome all bark no bite lol.

Only 11 am on the east coast and burleigh is 10 posts deep with the exact same "courageous" self affirmations and nothing new to say....... yawnnnnn

mikehunt207 wrote:

Only 11 am on the east coast and burleigh is 10 posts deep with the exact same "courageous" self affirmations and nothing new to say....... yawnnnnn

says the person who said nothing lol
bit weird counting someone posts haha

burleigh wrote:

Stok wrote:

Matilda0213 wrote:

Sorry i could of put quotation marks if you like but i didnt find it on any trump page. Just thought it sums up this thread and societys mental state pretty well. Ive encouraged people to get vaccinated im just shocked at the division its created in this country and many others.

Fair call Matilda, but rest assured, the division is almost purely created by anti vax propagandists, and far right 'freedom fighter' social media commentators. these people planted seeds everywhere, and are continuously 'crop dusting' with further divisive and emotive content designed to make you distrust the Governments.

What a good little whipping boy you are Stok,

The government are doing a marvellous job of making people distrust all by themselves.

You just want someone to blame.

You’ve taken the title of the biggest tool in this thread by a mile.

100%. Again, brilliant

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about foul mouthed insults.
You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Can the roadkills cafe scenario be a sticky at top of page so all the new comers can see what they are dealing with, HELLO any moderators out there.

If this thread is taken down, does that mean people stop talking about this subject ? Just trying to understand what some believe will be accomplished by removing the topic . With nearly 95% vaccinated , why get all out of shape about what a minority write ?

"@BB , which varient was your study referring too ? "

I doubt that they have that data supa.

"Do you think the risk benefit analysis needs to change for omicron ?"

No. We do not know the long term health risks to children from covid.

"I noticed in your post that no children in either group got very sick .
Also I now know more than 10 parents whose children age 6 and under have contracted and quickly recovered from covid in a few days , do you think these children should now be vaccinated ? Or any children that have recovered from covid ?"

Yes, the data is good that a correctly timed vaccination after infection produces higher immunity.

supa, you are free to make your own decision about vaccinating your children. From my reading the evidence suggests that vaccination is the safest route and that is the position of those with the best access to all the data and the greatest experience in the field. If you have not yet been able to bring yourself to the point of accepting that, then presumably you have made your choice and the odds are that your children will be fine anyway.
On a different note, after worsening cold symptoms, I had a PCR test thgis morning. I am thinking less than 50%. chance of it being covid, but I did have contact with a symptomless family member who later tested positive.

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

You can tell the boomers on here by the swear words used.

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

can we hear your mother in the cafe scenario again please?

blindboy wrote:

"@BB , which varient was your study referring too ? "

I doubt that they have that data supa.

"Do you think the risk benefit analysis needs to change for omicron ?"

No. We do not know the long term health risks to children from covid.

"I noticed in your post that no children in either group got very sick .

Also I now know more than 10 parents whose children age 6 and under have contracted and quickly recovered from covid in a few days , do you think these children should now be vaccinated ? Or any children that have recovered from covid ?"

Yes, the data is good that a correctly timed vaccination after infection produces higher immunity.

supa, you are free to make your own decision about vaccinating your children. From my reading the evidence suggests that vaccination is the safest route and that is the position of those with the best access to all the data and the greatest experience in the field. If you have not yet been able to bring yourself to the point of accepting that, then presumably you have made your choice and the odds are that your children will be fine anyway.

On a different note, after worsening cold symptoms, I had a PCR test thgis morning. I am thinking less than 50%. chance of it being covid, but I did have contact with a symptomless family member who later tested positive.

When ATAGI can show me the risk and benefit analysis for omicron then I can make an informed decision about what vaccines my daughter gets . In the meantime its a no from me .

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

can we hear your mother in the cafe scenario again please?

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

can we hear your mother in the cafe scenario again please?

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

All true, not made up pie in the sky scenario in a cafe lmaf.

Just wondering if Stok, VL and the others agree with the experts in the UK now they are getting rid of passports etc.

Or is it still just the paid experts in Australia you want to listen to?

brutus wrote:

Indo.....we do not have one of the best health systems in the World. My personal experience is France blows away Australia's , Japan Blows away Australias.....read the Age article and see how overloaded our systems are.....PCR tests don't come back , hardly any anti-gen tests....it's getting worse......I have to go to hospital today I'll get back to you on what the Dr's and staff are saying and not concocted political statements .....

Why weren't we more prepared , because oh budgets?

indo-dreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

So Burleigh....what do you think about no state has prepared for more hosptalizations , and now health systems are going into meltdown.

On a personal note...I can no longer get my health/Cancer tests done.....

burleigh wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

No ICU beds in some locations…it’s not going to end well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/10/new-zealand-not-prepared-…

Over 2 years to prepare. Did they have time to build covid jails like Australia?

You would think all the experts advising the government would have said new strains can be more infectious?

Offcourse they prepare as much as they can, but you can't magically get more staff and hospital beds etc.

Hospitals are under pressure but the biggest problem is staff off work from being close contacts or with Covid.

In reality Australia has one of the best hospital systems in the world and is not even close to a true melt down.

You want to see a true meltdown, that was Indonesia at its hospitalisation peak last year where the carparks were set up with big tents to house people and rooms crammed full of patients and beds in hallways, and you have to share air and only get to see a doctor after a few days.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-t… https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/27/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health…

No heath system is designed to deal with a pandemic though, nothing in society is.

burleigh wrote:

Just wondering if Stok, VL and the others agree with the experts in the UK now they are getting rid of passports etc.

Or is it still just the paid experts in Australia you want to listen to?

Yes of course! Vaccine passports are, and always have been, a temporary solution.

Whoa. This is concrete, and tight and damning. Well done from the standpoint of laying out the facts and the motivations. Sars-CoV-2 was human-made. Fauci conspired to cover it up. Are you okay with that? https://t.co/M0E1doIiWx

— Chris Martenson (@chrismartenson) January 19, 2022

indo-dreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

Indo.....we do not have one of the best health systems in the World. My personal experience is France blows away Australia's , Japan Blows away Australias.....read the Age article and see how overloaded our systems are.....PCR tests don't come back , hardly any anti-gen tests....it's getting worse......I have to go to hospital today I'll get back to you on what the Dr's and staff are saying and not concocted political statements .....

Why weren't we more prepared , because oh budgets?

indo-dreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

So Burleigh....what do you think about no state has prepared for more hosptalizations , and now health systems are going into meltdown.

On a personal note...I can no longer get my health/Cancer tests done.....

burleigh wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

No ICU beds in some locations…it’s not going to end well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/10/new-zealand-not-prepared-…

Over 2 years to prepare. Did they have time to build covid jails like Australia?

You would think all the experts advising the government would have said new strains can be more infectious?

Offcourse they prepare as much as they can, but you can't magically get more staff and hospital beds etc.

Hospitals are under pressure but the biggest problem is staff off work from being close contacts or with Covid.

In reality Australia has one of the best hospital systems in the world and is not even close to a true melt down.

You want to see a true meltdown, that was Indonesia at its hospitalisation peak last year where the carparks were set up with big tents to house people and rooms crammed full of patients and beds in hallways, and you have to share air and only get to see a doctor after a few days.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-t… https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/27/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health…

No heath system is design to deal with a pandemic though, nothing in society is.

100% agree with you here, Indo. "No heath system is design to deal with a pandemic though, nothing in society is."

Supafreak wrote:

If this thread is taken down, does that mean people stop talking about this subject ? Just trying to understand what some believe will be accomplished by removing the topic . With nearly 95% vaccinated , why get all out of shape about what a minority write ?

You can talk about it Supa, just don't share ideas anonymously about contrarian healthcare advice and emergency pandemic response. I mean, you're free to do it, but it's just irresponsible.

In terms of why get out of shape about it, well, it's somewhat cathartic for me! I've actually also found it fascinating watching the conspiracies evolve, and the people I know/public figures fall for them.

"No heath system is design to deal with a pandemic though, nothing in society is."

Bang on Indo & Roadkill.

Unfortunately, there's opportunists out there who would rather see society be moved to a position which makes it worse off, in terms of pandemic preparedness, all for their own short term personal gain.

Stok wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

End of the day it all comes down to two things

1.

Q= Are children below 12 at risk of serious illness or death from Covid?

A= All the stats show clearly that no they are not at risk.

2

Q.=Does the vaccine prevent transmission?

A= Seeing both Aust & Israel have some of the highest tax rates in the world but also the two fastest Omicron growth rates, clearly they don't.

So why do kids need Covid vaxing again????

Surely its makes much more sense on educating parents on the real risk to children and concentrating on spending money and resources on getting his risk groups vaxed/bosted like the elderly.

I can attest I don't know the answers to this. I have young kids myself, who've both had covid and seemingly were/are fine. If they were of school age I'd be questioning whether to race off and get them vaccinated for sure.

But one thing I'm 100% sure of, is that this is a fucking tricky topic, best kept off a surf website where 75% of posters share essentially anti vax propaganda day in day out.

I'd probably go to a doctor, or ask a family member (who is a doctor), and make the decision personally myself. I wouldn't try to push my personal choice on others.

If it became mandated, for some reason, that kids get vaccinated (which it's not), I'd listen to the experts, and realise that only in fantasy land (i.e. Burleigh's head) would any expert body in Australia mandate the vaccination of kids without fully assessing and considering the risks to children and society as a whole.

Personally i think its more political the Government wants to be seen as doing all it can and the pharmaceutical companies have a product to sell, if the government didnt push the vaccine for kids the opposition would attack them on it saying they dont care about kids, it doesnt matter to either pharmaceutical companies or the government if kids really need it or not.

Close this thread and start one called "coronavirus: the great hoax" or "Abuse people you don't know" or something

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

can we hear your mother in the cafe scenario again please?

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

All true, not made up pie in the sky scenario in a cafe lmaf.

Well Robo, now you have confirmed it is all true. I owe you an apology.
I am sorry, Robo. I should have taken what you said as truth. Afterall, it would be a pretty sick scummy person to use their family and friends and cancer diagnosis to discredit covid vaxxes. Same goes for the 4 people you know who have developed shingles after getting vaxxed. Poor form from me to again doubt you.

Sorry to doubt you.

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Robo wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Quote "You can say whatever you want on here to someone"

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

Imagine saying whatever you want :)

I was talking about insults.

You really do have no life if you have time to go back over people posts. Like others keep saying, After your cafe comment you have lost all credibility lol, hide your head in shame.

Oh, so your moral code doesn't allow insults, (even though you throw around insults) but making up the most ridiculous bs statements to back up your bias and anti vax stance are acceptable?

can we hear your mother in the cafe scenario again please?

A few (3 or more) family member have developed cancer after getting vaxxed.

A friend with leukemia caught covid, NSW health sent to guys with oxygen to her house...she was in the pool having fun, 2 guys left.

I know 4 people who have got shingles from getting vaxxed....

All true, not made up pie in the sky scenario in a cafe lmaf.

Well Robo, now you have confirmed it is all true. I owe you an apology.

I am sorry, Robo. I should have taken what you said as truth. Afterall, it would be a pretty sick scummy person to use their family and friends and cancer diagnosis to discredit covid vaxxes. Same goes for the 4 people you know who have developed shingles after getting vaxxed. Poor form from me to again doubt you.

Sorry to doubt you.

No worries, I forgive you.

That’s very kind of you robo and I must say a great deflection yet again from the roaddill

The resident Swellnet pin cushions are the kings of deflection.

Supafreak wrote:

That’s very kind of you robo and I must say a great deflection yet again from the roaddill

How is it a deflection, SF?

Whoa. This is concrete, and tight and damning. Well done from the standpoint of laying out the facts and the motivations. Sars-CoV-2 was human-made. Fauci conspired to cover it up. Are you okay with that? https://t.co/M0E1doIiWx

— Chris Martenson (@chrismartenson) January 19, 2022

"In terms of why get out of shape about it, well, it's somewhat cathartic for me! I've actually also found it fascinating watching the conspiracies evolve, and the people I know/public figures fall for them."

and how's this 'conspiracy' panning out for you stok?

sure is... 'fascinating watching the conspiracies evolve, and the people I know/public figures fall for them.'

sypkan wrote:

https://twitter.com/chrismartenson/status/1483895439040647169?s=21

"In terms of why get out of shape about it, well, it's somewhat cathartic for me! I've actually also found it fascinating watching the conspiracies evolve, and the people I know/public figures fall for them."

and how's this 'conspiracy' panning out for you stok?

sure is... 'fascinating watching the conspiracies evolve, and the people I know/public figures fall for them.'

WOW, won't see that on the 6pm news.