great video frog, thanks.

sypkan, I think I get what you're saying.

One point I'd make is there may be much more scope for China to sustainably double the size of its economy from 10k/cap to 20k, than for the US to double its, particularly via the services and digital/tech sectors.

Then China's economy would be nearly double that of the US. And if China was to then maintain its same military spending as a percent of GDP, then they'd double their military. This is what they're working towards.

So the west may need to keep up and try to hinder China.

This may be part of the reason for such strong post-covid economic stimulus, a sudden appetite for inflation, and some of the other things you mentioned. It's also an argument for population growth.

One thing I was wondering about, given certain events in say Canada, was if the west has gotten the idea that maybe a more authoritarian and less democratic style of government is desirable, given the apparent success of China's, and we may be starting to see this?

truebluebasher wrote:

Putin: "After 2 weeks blowing all our ammo & fuel, tryin' to hit the Kindy we surrender!"

New secret weapon that flies thru all buildings to the far side of town then levels out 40m from Kindy.

I got to the flies through all buildings bit and all I could think of was this:

One of the greatest films ever made.
Banned in Queensland.

Well this is what happens when you've got the most piss weak POTUS in living memory.

The real Donald Trump wrote:

Well this is what happens when you've got the most piss weak POTUS in living memory.

Donny, did you read any of the past 2 pages? Oh that's right, you don't like to read.
Keep blowing up sheep VJ, very funny film.

blackers wrote:

The real Donald Trump wrote:

Well this is what happens when you've got the most piss weak POTUS in living memory.

Donny, did you read any of the past 2 pages? Oh that's right, you don't like to read.

Keep blowing up sheep VJ, very funny film.

how's zombie-in-chief Joey B goin' mate ?

barely been 12 months. fuckin disaster.

Joe Kassabian
@jkass99
“Yes, clearly, Ukraine is planning an offensive, and they masterfully waited until nearly 200k Russian troops are staged at the border to do so.”

https://twitter.com/jkass99/status/1494692265200996355?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Powerful Gas Pipeline Explosion Rocks Eastern Ukraine; Biden "Convinced By Intel" Putin Has Decided To Invade

headline on ZH presently...

Divide and conquer by China and Russia two fronts smart by China one side
Russia the other. Splits in two worlds defence forces. Now the winter Olympics
are over watch the Chinese RATS move on and eventually on us.. The civilised world
is in real trouble this is going to get real. Seriously not good.

Blumpkin, elevating himself above the rest of us. What a “man”.

Wow, those over the current media environment can now Follow The Truth by choosing to live in a parallel Donald Trump universe free from political bias with his new Truth Social app and social media service aiming to compete with Facebook, Twitter, etc.

It sounds really appealing based on the The Guardian article and the App Store preview:

Follow The Truth wrote:

Truth Social describes itself as a “big tent” social media platform “that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating against political ideology”.

What exactly is Truth Social's "Big Tent" approach?

Think of a giant outdoor event tent at your best friend's wedding. Who's there? The combination of multiple families from all over the United States, and the world. Uncle Jim from Atlanta is a proud libertarian. Aunt Kellie from Texas is a staunch conservative. Your cousin John from California is a die-hard liberal. And guess what? They're all together to have an amazing time and share their different viewpoints on the world. Although we don't always agree with each other, we welcome these varied opinions and the robust conversation they bring.

What makes Truth Social different!?

We are a social media platform that is free from political discrimination.

Haha, haven’t we just dug the biggest hole for ourselves?
I just don’t see how we’re ever going to find an end to the truth wars. As suggested elsewhere it’s easy to imagine us all just splintering back into tribalism.

Any other word you’d prefer to use to describe “shit”?

any word you wish andym...

"We Are Experiencing Definitional Collapse

To return to a theme.

For me, the moment that seemed to pierce reality, Don Delillo in real life, was when anarchists protested in favor of mask mandates. Children in black hoodies who wave the anarchist flag fight for the government and its right to override individual choice. They do not do so because of how they have parsed Bakunin or Kropotkin; they never bothered to know what anarchism is or means in the first place. Why would they? Politics is only who you sneer at and who sneers at you..."

https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/we-are-experiencing-definitional?u…

“Why would they? Politics is only who you sneer at and who sneers at you..."
Well, you have found your natural home then Sykpan.

“Why would they? Politics is only who you sneer at and who sneers at you..."
Well, you have found your natural home then Sykpan.

After seeing the Russian Security Council meeting today I think Zhirinovsky’s words from December 27th might be a bit concerning. https://t.co/WK3lCRW6NU

— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) February 21, 2022

Who need intel analysis when you have Zhirik? (Russian politician speaking on 27 Dec)

"At 4am on 22 Feb you'll feel [our new policy]. I'd like 2022 to be peaceful. But I love the truth, for 70 years I've said the truth. It won't be peaceful. It will be a year when Russia once again becomes great."

The only great things to come out of Russia in the last 70 years was the Kalashnikov rifle, Anna Kournikova and dashcam footage of what shit drivers they are.

and Vodka

garyg1412 wrote:

The only great things to come out of Russia in the last 70 years was the Kalashnikov rifle, Anna Kournikova and dashcam footage of what shit drivers they are.

Kalash rifles now made by India.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/06/india/india-russia-arms-deal-putin-m…

blackers wrote:

“Why would they? Politics is only who you sneer at and who sneers at you..."

Well, you have found your natural home then Sykpan.

pot kettle blackers?

you don't think the article has a point?

"...I think that in the next decade the most salient political evolution won’t be towards the right or towards the left. It’s that politics will become corporeal again for a caste that has enjoyed keeping it in the realm of the theoretical. A lot of people who have had the comfort of treating politics as entertainment their whole lives will find it suddenly, unspeakably real. I think chaos is coming."

they're coming for facto's...

will be...

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

velocityjohnno wrote:

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

Potentially. More importantly, he formally recognised their independence. This will be really interesting.

Interesting could be euphemistic.

I got to see Gulf War I start live on CNN, staying with relatives in London way back when, when I was little. Today, we have twitter and it's OSINT section:

Posts by vcdgf555

https://twitter.com/covertshores

There are many others. I tend to have interest in maritime so the second link there is excellent (note his current dispositions). For mine, it's the ship types/deployment that tends to give away intention.

Actually VJ- me too. I was on my first overseas trip in Canada when it started (GWI) and my parents said I should come home, so I had to cut my trip short by a month.

velocityjohnno wrote:

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

My interpretation is that the Russian peacekeeping mission is to try to prevent Ukraine forces from bombing / shelling civilians in these separatist regions, which they've been doing since 2014. They voted that they didn't want to be controlled by the new US installed puppet Ukrainian government. In response the Ukrainian military proceeded to bomb / shell towns and cities in the region. I was following the situation at the time, information on what was really happening was hard to find then, it's almost impossible now. All we hear is the US / NATO version of events. I don't know what's going on with this gas pipeline explosion.

More geopolitics - why it is a such big deal to the USA - the lynchpin of the empire - Germany is in play.

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-crisis-in-ukraine-is-not-about-ukraine…

Yes, definitely gragagan. There are two sides to the story, for sure. In that strategic realm, I'd suggest Southfront for the Russian view of things. Russia and Ukraine goes back a long way; the deaths of the Holodomor, the resultant welcoming of German forces by the Ukranians in 1941 (iirc). We can go back to the Crimean war, and then Mackinder again with attacking/turning nations on the southern flanks of Russia... the 'soft underbelly'. Especially after 1990, Putin's point there is true. It seems the central powers are now consolidating their land in the central continent and much of the periphery where wars are traditionally fought (eg, Afghanistan as well) and then the contest will be on in years to come in the periphery nearer the sea, and then the maritime area, where they further they go, the more they will lose for that is the stronghold of the maritime powers.

For what I can see of Russia - you can't beat them, history would suggest. They will withdraw into that massive interior and then come back and smash you. We have Napoleon's defeated men walking home and it was so cold the rain fell horizontally and froze to them, so many died. Having to mop up Greece beforehand, the Wehrmacht began Barbarossa some months too late (they got close to Moscow and Stalin panicked, apparently) - but again, the cold, the interior, the Russians came back and smashed them. Better to be friends tbh, but cool heads are not prevailing.

There's some fascinating stuff I've realised looking in the OSINT deployments, but I won't discuss it just yet, maybe some time later when it's history, given the importance of things going on.

And back to the GW1 stuff crew, I did stay in the UK at this time (Dad said so!)... but I'll never forget staying up, wondering what I was about to see.

In years later, did the flight through Dubai and I followed every oil terminal city in the gulf, then Basra, then Baghdad, then Mosul lit up at night. Dawn revealed the mountains of Western Turkey, which looked magnificent.

gragagan wrote:

velocityjohnno wrote:

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

My interpretation is that the Russian peacekeeping mission is to try to prevent Ukraine forces from bombing / shelling civilians in these separatist regions, which they've been doing since 2014. They voted that they didn't want to be controlled by the new US installed puppet Ukrainian government. In response the Ukrainian military proceeded to bomb / shell towns and cities in the region. I was following the situation at the time, information on what was really happening was hard to find then, it's almost impossible now. All we hear is the US / NATO version of events. I don't know what's going on with this gas pipeline explosion.

It seems that peacekeepeing mission is required but to keep it clean it should be done through the coordinated UN effort, not in a unilateral way. In my previous life I experienced UNPROFOR, something like this should be setup here as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Protection_Force

Reality is that up to now the separatists have been getting their arses handed to them. Why? Because they don’t have the level of support of the population, even in a largely Russian speaking area of Ukraine, to conduct a successful insurgency campaign. Without the backing of Russian equipment, money and ‘volunteers’, this would have been over years ago.

Finding Ukrainian / European perspectives isn’t that hard. It’s not a binary choice of news sources. Views of the Putin regime within Russia certainly aren’t all positive. Even less so in areas adjacent to Russia. You can be ethnically Russian but not want to be part of a series of satellite states.

Riddle me this; why would Ukraine escalate in a scenario where there are somewhere between 170 and 200K Russian troops arrayed around them? There’s amphibious / maritime exercises in the Black Sea (south), major land and airborne forces in Belarus (north) and a huge increase in forces on the Ukrainian / Russian border (east). When the US has expressly ruled out military intervention to save Ukraine?

This is Sudetenland redux.

gragagan wrote:

velocityjohnno wrote:

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

My interpretation is that the Russian peacekeeping mission is to try to prevent Ukraine forces from bombing / shelling civilians in these separatist regions, which they've been doing since 2014. They voted that they didn't want to be controlled by the new US installed puppet Ukrainian government. In response the Ukrainian military proceeded to bomb / shell towns and cities in the region. I was following the situation at the time, information on what was really happening was hard to find then, it's almost impossible now. All we hear is the US / NATO version of events. I don't know what's going on with this gas pipeline explosion.

flollo wrote:

gragagan wrote:

velocityjohnno wrote:

Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence from Ukraine. Putin has authorised a peacekeeping mission within them, so that reads annexation to me.

History grads taken back to 1938...

My interpretation is that the Russian peacekeeping mission is to try to prevent Ukraine forces from bombing / shelling civilians in these separatist regions, which they've been doing since 2014..

It seems that peacekeepeing mission is required but to keep it clean it should be done through the coordinated UN effort, not in a unilateral way. In my previous life I experienced UNPROFOR, something like this should be setup here as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Protection_Force

I think a UN-led Peacekeeping force is entirely appropriate but there’s no way on earth that Putin would agree to that. This whole thing has been set up as a fait accompli. My question is, what’s next?

Also, Putin is so keen to recognise these states but refuses to recognise Kosovo.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Kosovo

Or a dozen or so separatist movements within Russia itself

Putin has recognised ‘expanded borders’ of the ‘independent’ states in Eastern Ukraine. He’s sent in Russian forces to ‘keep the peace’ within those unilaterally expanded boundaries. Currently using multi-launch rocket systems against Ukrainian positions.

Explain to me how this is a response to NATO aggression again?

Interesting to note the colourful political and sanction history of the Nord Stream projects from the wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream wrote:

In January 2018, United States Secretary of State Rex Tillerson stated that the U.S. and Poland opposed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, seeing it as undermining Europe's energy security and stability.

The Nord Stream 2 pipeline was also opposed by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, former U.S. President Donald Trump, the European Council President Donald Tusk and British foreign minister Boris Johnson. Tusk has said that Nord Stream 2 is not in the EU's interests.

On December 21st, 2019, U.S. President Donald Trump signed a law that imposed sanctions on any firm that aids in the building of the pipeline. The pipeline's construction was halted minutes before Trump signed the law.

The pipeline's construction was resumed in December 2020 after it appeared that Former Vice President Joe Biden (D) would be inaugurated as U.S. President in the following January. On January 13th, 2022, U.S. Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas) introduced a bill to reimpose the sanctions. 55 senators (49 Republicans, 6 Democrats), a majority, voted in favor of the bill. 44 Democrats voted against it. Senator Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) did not vote. The bill failed to get the 60 votes required and died in the Senate.

On January 1, 2021, an annual defense policy bill passed by the US Congress included sanctions for companies who worked on or insured the pipeline.

On 26 January 2021, the White House said that Joe Biden "continues to believe that Nord Stream 2 is a bad deal for Europe" and that his administration "will be reviewing" the new sanctions. According to congressional aides cited in a February report by NBC News, the sanctions enjoy "strong bipartisan support" on Capitol Hill.

In June 2017, Germany, France, Austria and European Commission criticized the United States Senate over new sanctions against Russia targeting the pipeline, stating that the United States was threatening Europe's energy supplies. In a joint statement, Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern and German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said, "Europe's energy supply is a matter for Europe, and not for the United States of America." They also said: "To threaten companies from Germany, Austria and other European states with penalties on the U.S. market if they participate in natural gas projects such as Nord Stream 2 with Russia or finance them introduces a completely new and very negative quality into European-American relations."

German Finance Minister Olaf Scholz called the sanctions "a severe intervention in German and European internal affairs", while the EU spokesman criticized "the imposition of sanctions against EU companies conducting legitimate business."

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas tweeted that "European energy policy is decided in Europe, not in the United States". Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov also criticized sanctions, saying that United States Congress "is literally overwhelmed with the desire to do everything to destroy" Russia–United States relations.

The German Eastern Business Association said in a statement that "America wants to sell its liquefied gas in Europe, for which Germany is building terminals. Should we arrive at the conclusion that U.S. sanctions are intended to push competitors out of the European market, our enthusiasm for bilateral projects with the U.S. will significantly cool."

On 22 November 2021, the US State Department announced that it had imposed further sanctions on a Russian vessel and a "Russian-linked entity".

In 2022, amid Russian-Ukrainian tensions, Reuters reported that Austria rejected including Nord Stream 2 in European Union sanctions against Russia.

Explain to me again how it's not about Nord Stream?

I trust the people working Biden’s strings less than I trust Putin.

And I don’t trust Putin at all.

Blowin wrote:

I trust the people working Biden’s strings less than I trust Putin.

And I don’t trust Putin at all.

Yep. The US needs war to prosper, and deflect from what's happening at home

Don't see the Indo government going after illegal Russian assets haha

The Russian Federation council has approved deployment of Russian troops abroad. pic.twitter.com/hf0qlyvmBc

— GMI (@Global_Mil_Info) February 22, 2022

#BREAKING
GERMANY SANCTIONS NORD STREAM 2 BY WITHDRAWING THE ECONOMY MINISTRY'S SECURITY OF SUPPLY ANALYSIS AND THEREBY STOPPING THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS.

— Julian Röpcke 🇩🇪🤝🇺🇦 (@JulianRoepcke) February 22, 2022

NEW: BLINKEN says “now that we see the invasion is beginning,” it does not make sense to go forward with the meeting with Russian FM Lavrov at this time. And Blinken says he sent Lavrov a letter today informing him of this.

— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) February 22, 2022

A few important political developments amongst all the spyplanes, transport planes, tanks and naval groups.

And:

Ukrainian President Zelensky has signed a decree to call up reservists.

— GMI (@Global_Mil_Info) February 22, 2022

VJ, dropped a vid for you in the interesting stuff thread.

The guy Paolo is a little cheesy but the subject matter is interesting.

Cheers Zen, I'll go have a look. Thanks so much for the Ampanman stuff too - haunting backstory to the song and lyrics. The author lost his brother as a kamikaze pilot I think (they didn't really die; they passed on life to those who remained), and his experience of WW2 included starvation, hence "bread-man" feeding children with his head to save them and having it re-baked every night.

Next up,

https://twitter.com/i/events/1496309681236496388

Of most interest is Scomo mentioning that invasion should begin within 24 hours.

Leader of the Free World !

Watch out Vladimir….the ACE has you in his sights.

Meanwhile the previous leader of the free world, Mr Trump, praises Putin’s move into Ukraine as genius and savvy:

and it seems that a good proportion of the Republican party also does:

View this post on Instagram

Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid…

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.
I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

soggydog wrote:

Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid…

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.

I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

It’s not a bad read as a historical summary, but it has three main weaknesses; firstly, it fails to presents the current Russian actions as anything but inevitable and in doing so justifies them. Is an invasion Putin’s ‘only’ option? It’s as one-sided as the narrative that it’s trying to debunk.

Secondly, the piece is entirely binary in its view, defining this as a binary US /Russia issue. Reality is that there’s far more European equity in this issue than is presented. And it entirely neglects to mention Ukrainian equities. This is an economic and social issue as much as it is a military security issue. More Ukrainians want to join the EU than NATO. Is there any right to national self-determination?

Finally, there’s an underwhelming ‘so what’ at the end of it: Americans should demand more of Biden to avoid war. For a reasonably constructed (if one-sided) piece, this is a fizzle of a conclusion: “The past few weeks have seen several failed talks between the US and Russians, as the US refuses to alter its plans for Ukraine. The US Congress is rushing a “lethal aid” package to send more weapons to the troubled border. Perhaps if the public were better informed, there would be more domestic pressure on Biden to end the brinkmanship and seek a genuine solution to the problem.” To wit, what is the genuine solution? The article has done nothing to outline, or point to, an alternative.

So… the failure of talks is solely the US’s responsibility, despite their public statements that they will not intervene in Ukraine? Where’s the Russian response to that? Economic sanctions ARE the alternative to war. That’s the policy tool being threatened and employed.

My final point is that it’s all a bit fatalistic. If you accept that the malfeasant and unstoppable hand of US foreign policy in all of this, it kind of undermines the significance of executive power. What follows is that presenting this in the usual Trump good / Biden bad (or vice versa) dichotomy is pointless - there’s been no fundamental change in US policy, and if anything Biden is the most effective puppet-master in global history.

Interesting interview re how events might play out in Ukraine , with ex UK ambassador to Russia -yesterday on RN breakfast. Interested to hear comments from those watching this unfold.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWJjLm5ldC5hdS9yYWRpb2…

I take no real interest in world politics until its going to become catastrophic and pretty ignorant
on it all. What I can see is that nobody has threatened or invaded Russia. Russia to me is invading
a neighbours country with real threats of all out war, is this all hollywood scripted, to make Russia
the bad guy and the USA the white knights and its a reversed coverup. Also the USA and other
western countries with similar values are only threating with sanctions and going all out to prevent
war. Then you have to acknowledge the fact that Russia and China are allies in all this and the cunning
rats ( China )are on a threatening move as well. Anyone on here remember where this world stopping virus was released from? Hits me a bit like a JBG smack in the face at pipeline is that this is a orchestrated strategic co-ordinated world attack and changing the world under a new dictatorship way of life, for the ones they let live. So much anti USA and blame on them from this site it challenges me to figure out why, makes me angry actually do some of you really want to live under a brutal dictatorship
or live a relatively free and easy way of life with passive control and direction with over used PC and
bylaws. I look at mainly USA plus its allies as protecting my way of life. Ive already lost a shit load of money, my business, my house and wife I really dont wish to lose my freedom as well.
If the USA has its secrete armies and spies in place I say great they are only protecting
us and our way of life. So by all means someone on here tell me straight up why America
is at fault here because I dont fucken know.

For one great power to dominate politically and economically there are many benefits in facilitating the fragmentation of any medium sized or large foreign nation states, where possible, into small, unstable, ethnically and religiously fractured societies. Peace and prosperity for all is often not the foremost goal.

The fragmented nature of the middle east and much of Europe is not by chance. Chaos in the middle east has benefits for some.

At a state level there are strong views that WIN or LOSE is the only long term option for a great power.

The long strategic struggle for dominance for some and survival for others is very serious on both sides.

A large, cohesive country with a lot of resources is an obvious target to contain and fragment.

explosions going off, ...as UN discussions conclude...

befuudled biden fumbles with threats

impotent threats putin clearly couldn't give a shit about...

the russian chessman is three steps ahead ...at least...

choreographed to a tee

politics aside, it's like the players are on two totally different chess boards, putin-old school, tried abd tested... the west-contemporary and constrained, failing miserably...

the first act

I really really hope china isn't in on this dance