etarip wrote:

soggydog wrote:

Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid…

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.

I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

It’s not a bad read as a historical summary, but it has three main weaknesses; firstly, it fails to presents the current Russian actions as anything but inevitable and in doing so justifies them. Is an invasion Putin’s ‘only’ option? It’s as one-sided as the narrative that it’s trying to debunk.

Secondly, the piece is entirely binary in its view, defining this as a binary US /Russia issue. Reality is that there’s far more European equity in this issue than is presented. And it entirely neglects to mention Ukrainian equities. This is an economic and social issue as much as it is a military security issue. More Ukrainians want to join the EU than NATO. Is there any right to national self-determination?

Finally, there’s an underwhelming ‘so what’ at the end of it: Americans should demand more of Biden to avoid war. For a reasonably constructed (if one-sided) piece, this is a fizzle of a conclusion: “The past few weeks have seen several failed talks between the US and Russians, as the US refuses to alter its plans for Ukraine. The US Congress is rushing a “lethal aid” package to send more weapons to the troubled border. Perhaps if the public were better informed, there would be more domestic pressure on Biden to end the brinkmanship and seek a genuine solution to the problem.” To wit, what is the genuine solution? The article has done nothing to outline, or point to, an alternative.

So… the failure of talks is solely the US’s responsibility, despite their public statements that they will not intervene in Ukraine? Where’s the Russian response to that? Economic sanctions ARE the alternative to war. That’s the policy tool being threatened and employed.

My final point is that it’s all a bit fatalistic. If you accept that the malfeasant and unstoppable hand of US foreign policy in all of this, it kind of undermines the significance of executive power. What follows is that presenting this in the usual Trump good / Biden bad (or vice versa) dichotomy is pointless - there’s been no fundamental change in US policy, and if anything Biden is the most effective puppet-master in global history.

A high-quality response etarip.

If China does anything at all it will be to take Taiwan while everyone is watching Putin in Ukraine. The pieces are moving on the game board and will continue to do so until higher powers get what they want. This is above puppets like Biden and most so called world leaders.

The Invasion has begun..

Optimist wrote:

If China does anything at all it will be to take Taiwan while everyone is watching Putin in Ukraine. The pieces are moving on the game board and will continue to do so until higher powers get what they want. This is above puppets like Biden and most so called world leaders.

Senile puppets

I gotta say, that 'denazicification' line was particularly clever...

(see cunstance's article above)

If you think what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now is somehow justified by NATO expansion (to include a grand total of 2 countries, not on Russia’s borders) over the last 15 years, there’s something wrong with you.

Secondly, if you think that Putin’s commentary and narrative are aimed at The West and you’re repeating his lines, you’re mistaken in the first instance and slightly moronic in the second.

They’re firmly aimed at the domestic market. Putin doesn’t care for any justification. He’s on record as saying what he wants. It’s got nothing to do with Nordstream, NATO or the EU.

Of course China and Russia are on this together ive being saying this for 2 years with the virus attack
that was just to destabilised the world the beginning. China will now advance on Taiwan. Divide and
conquer oldest trick in the book. Two real wars on of global proportions at each end of the world certainly weakens worlds defence forces.

Attack has begun, must have started about 3pm AEST.
Much footage of bombardment and things like cruise missiles flying through air. Reports that Ukranian navy was destroyed in port at Odessa.

Posts by vcdgf555

Some vivid scenes, feel for the poor buggers under the fire.

Evosurfer, tend to agree on the virus attack. Have a look at dispositions if you can and there's decent deterrent in SCSea currently, if you know what I mean.

Heavy VJ.

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:
https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

i assume you're having a shot at me...

I don't think anything is justified, and I don't think repeating his lines that are widely reported in the media deserves personal condemnation

my comments were about putin clearly playing a different game to the west, with clearly different rules, and seemingly, even in a different epoch of time...

my comments are about how impotent the west seems to have made itself

the nazi comment is particularly clever, it plays to all audiences, and at the same time, firmly says a lot about previous US meddling...

meddling that big joe had a big role in...

coincidently... and Im sure putin takes some great pleasure engaging such a cutting gibe

that's all

etarip wrote:

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:

https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

They're all very quiet, just people doing their normal daily thing by the looks of it. There's a ton of live-cams all over ukraine, I've been checking as many as I can. I saw people catching a bus, a worker emptying a rubbish bin, people shopping, roads look normal, the port looks quiet.
There are a lot of US and UK news-sites and youtube channels doing "live feeds" of the "invasion". I don't think they can be trusted.
btw on a side note everyone that I could see was masked up still

velocityjohnno wrote:

Attack has begun, must have started about 3pm AEST.

Much footage of bombardment and things like cruise missiles flying through air. Reports that Ukranian navy was destroyed in port at Odessa.

https://twitter.com/vcdgf555

Some vivid scenes, feel for the poor buggers under the fire.

Evosurfer, tend to agree on the virus attack. Have a look at dispositions if you can and there's decent deterrent in SCSea currently, if you know what I mean.

Sad day for the people the world over. Just what we want. Another war supporting the benefits of a few for the sacrifice of everyday people. Russia enforcing its power is detrimental to both Russia and Ukraine. Most people just go about trying to survive in Eastern Europe let alone involves themselves in a war which only sacrifices their young. Been a few short wars in my lifetime. Nothing really gained except massive loss. Leaders of the world. You continue to fail your people. It's no wonder most loose faith in what is promised. Destabilising Europe has no benefit to the countries that surround conflict. Nor the future in which the youth grow up in rebuilding the nations you wreck. Most people celebrate peace. Without it you have little to prosper. Peace in Ukraine peace in Russia. Topple your tyrants.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has sparked a rout on Australia's share market.

Business Reporter @ChrisKohler has the details. #9News pic.twitter.com/0VMXdzBMwb

— 9News Australia (@9NewsAUS) February 24, 2022

Ukraine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

Anyone checked their super ? Mines taken a hit since last month.

Can confirm webcams look pretty quiet. Difficult when contrasting them to all the footage of bang crash: what to believe? Ferris Bueller showed us all that cams can also be gamed, just as social media posts can. Haven't checked super Supa (ha!) - anyone got puts? ;) Don's forecast coming true perhaps. IR pressure going up in the background...

& look on the bright side here in Oz,

https://www.investing.com/indices/major-indices

check MOEX and RTSI - I see them down 24 and 29% at time of posting. That board is a sea of red apart from the VIX.

interesting that the VIX is not yet at GFC or beginning-covid levels:

Moved most of my super to cash a while ago.... 2022 looked like war drums, fed drums, bubble trouble would make risk reward very unfavourable.

Got real, real fast.

velocityjohnno wrote:

Can confirm webcams look pretty quiet. Difficult when contrasting them to all the footage of bang crash: what to believe? Ferris Bueller showed us all that cams can also be gamed, just as social media posts can. Haven't checked super Supa (ha!) - anyone got puts? ;) Don's forecast coming true perhaps. IR pressure going up in the background...

Sorry, I was taking the piss. It’s not hard to run a loop on an internet facing camera like that. What you see is not what you get.

sypkan wrote:

i assume you're having a shot at me...

I don't think anything is justified, and I don't think repeating his lines that are widely reported in the media deserves personal condemnation

my comments were about putin clearly

that's all

Why do you think that my comment was directed at you personally? Nothing of the sort. For such an outspoken critic of the popular narrative and the evil MSM I figure that you might be a little more…. discerning with what you believe, repeat and amplify. Perhaps not.

gragagan wrote:

etarip wrote:

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:

https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

They're all very quiet, just people doing their normal daily thing by the looks of it. There's a ton of live-cams all over ukraine, I've been checking as many as I can. I saw people catching a bus, a worker emptying a rubbish bin, people shopping, roads look normal, the port looks quiet.

There are a lot of US and UK news-sites and youtube channels doing "live feeds" of the "invasion". I don't think they can be trusted.

btw on a side note everyone that I could see was masked up still

Just a hint. Look a little broader than US and UK news sites.

Supafreak wrote:

Anyone checked their super ? Mines taken a hit since last month.

US Stocks dumped hard on opening last night our time and gold price pumped. However by close of market last night gold had dropped and stocks were pretty much back at BE.

Russia Ukraine crisis is a mere blip. Stock market will rally hard in the coming months before an epic crash later this year.

And a lot of this Russia Ukraine has already been priced in over the last few weeks with stocks down

The US reminds me of a spoilt kid at the zoo. He walks right up to the fence and pokes the bear. The bear stares at him…The kid gets closer and pokes him again and the bear growls. The kid pokes him harder and the bear growls louder. The kid looks at the fence and thinks it looks quite strong so he pokes the bear even harder. …the bear finally stands up straight and he is actually twice the height of the fence and leans over and belts the kid with his big hairy paw….the spoilt kid runs away wounded and the bear climbs the fence and sits on the outside of it so no more spoilt kids will come near it again.

Yep, they have been poking that bear for 100 years on and off.

Optimist wrote:

The US reminds me of a spoilt kid at the zoo. He walks right up to the fence and pokes the bear. The bear stares at him…The kid gets closer and pokes him again and the bear growls. The kid pokes him harder and the bear growls louder. The kid looks at the fence and thinks it looks quite strong so he pokes the bear even harder. …the bear finally stands up straight and he is actually twice the height of the fence and leans over and belts the kid with his big hairy paw….the spoilt kid runs away wounded and the bear climbs the fence and sits on the outside of it so no more spoilt kids will come near it again.

Do you always speak in parables?

Dear international media, when covering 🇺🇦, please remember, Ukrainians are not pawns in a geopolitical game. We are real people, 40 mln, with our agency, ideas and aspirations. Majority of us (~60%) want to join the EU&NATO. We are ready to resist Russiahttps://t.co/eUn7oJdvO4

— Olga Tokariuk (@olgatokariuk) January 23, 2022

US propaganda….

Shocking picture of Kiev after being Bombed by Russia.

Just kidding this is a peaceful protest in America. pic.twitter.com/F5KxYeCnay

— 𝐆𝐫𝐞𝐠 (@CasuallyGreg) February 24, 2022

China comes out and blames western countries for causing Russia/Ukraine conflict...USA is the main cause of conflict. Does not believe Russia has invaded Ukraine.

The USA is creating panic.

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

I don't get it...is this meant to be funny? clever? cutting edge? provocative?

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Roadkill wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

I don't get it...is this meant to be funny? clever? cutting edge? provocative?

All of the above. Which it is. Fiery but mostly peaceful bombing of key targets in Ukraine!

indo-dreaming wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Truth bomb

Roadkill wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Engaging in a bit of unnecessary recreational outrage roadkill. Maybe try a walk mate, all that stress’ll give you bad health outcomes mate……….

soggydog wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Engaging in a bit of unnecessary recreational outrage roadkill. Maybe try a walk mate, all that stress’ll give you bad health outcomes mate……….

No outrage at all. I’m just trying to work out where the humour/irony/satire/provocation is?

Is it to do with democracy vs autocratic rule..protests compared to an invasion.

Any idea SG?

Ps…I don’t get/see a punchline either.

I’d start with irony then go from there. Fuck mate it’s an ironic meme. There explained.

It could be explained further but for you we’ll keep it simple. Plus I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But I don’t spend all day on here trying to prove whatever the fuck I can prove. Get a fucking life you dork.

soggydog wrote:

I’d start with irony then go from there. Fuck mate it’s an ironic meme. There explained.

It could be explained further but for you we’ll keep it simple. Plus I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But I don’t spend all day on here trying to prove whatever the fuck I can prove. Get a fucking life you dork.

Not really. There is zero irony in comparison of a democratic country protests and an innocent country invaded by an autocratic ruler for whatever reason.

Lol. @dork.

Ps.. you didn’t explain Jack shit.

Truth Bomb was very good Blowy, was well said.

Roadkill wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Okay instantly you see the pic of burning buildings your gut drops yeah, so you quickly read the text your thinking OMFG shits has got real heavy now.

Then you read that it's just a pic from 2020 USA BLM riots. (that's the punch line)

And that feeling in your gut quickly turns to a smile of relief and a chuckle because it puts things into a true perspective of how ridiculous some of the narratives and blasé attitudes to the riots in the USA were especially by some media and politicians.

The punch line is you mistake a pic of USA riots as a war zone, because really you couldn't tell the two apart from the pic.

Its clever because its not a pic I've seen before so i was sucked in, but it plays off the well known classic CNN pic of "mostly peaceful protest" while behind the reporter, cars and building burn.

If you didn't get it, i doubt explaining it will, but i thought it was very clever and said a lot without needing to say much at all.

And could have also been posted in the media thread to prove a point about narratives.

nuts, this guy could be the next hitler

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russia-ukraine-c…

indo-dreaming wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUz…

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Okay instantly you see the pic of burning buildings your gut drops yeah, so you quickly read the text your thinking OMFG shits has got real heavy now.

Then you read that it's just a pic from 2020 USA BLM riots. (that's the punch line)

And that feeling in your gut quickly turns to a smile of relief and a chuckle because it puts things into a true perspective of how ridiculous some of the narratives and blasé attitudes to the riots in the USA were especially by some media and politicians.

The punch line is you mistake a pic of USA riots as a war zone, because really you couldn't tell the two apart from the pic.

Its clever because its not a pic I've seen before so i was sucked in, but it plays off the well known classic CNN pic of "mostly peaceful protest" while behind the reporter, cars and building burn.

If you didn't get it, i doubt explaining it will, but i thought it was very clever and said a lot without needing to say much at all.

And could have also been posted in the media thread to prove a point about narratives.

Thanks, for an explanation, ID.
I don't get any of what you get from it..but you did the best to explain.

etarip wrote:

gragagan wrote:

etarip wrote:

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:

https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

They're all very quiet, just people doing their normal daily thing by the looks of it. There's a ton of live-cams all over ukraine, I've been checking as many as I can. I saw people catching a bus, a worker emptying a rubbish bin, people shopping, roads look normal, the port looks quiet.

There are a lot of US and UK news-sites and youtube channels doing "live feeds" of the "invasion". I don't think they can be trusted.

btw on a side note everyone that I could see was masked up still

Just a hint. Look a little broader than US and UK news sites.

This webcam discussion is utter nonsense. I lived in a war for 4 years. My house was within 50-100km from the front line and if there were webcams back then life would look pretty normal. I went to school, shops were open and my family members (if not on the frontline) went to work.

But those webcams would not show coffins coming home, refugees sleeping in your bed, or the guns and hand grenades we kept in our house in case of emergency.

War takes a toll in many different shapes. It's nearly impossible to describe them all.

I have no idea if what Tulsi is saying here is true or not . Anyone care to comment ?

A bit of Russian news. Just hit the translate to English unless you're proficient in Russian. The translations lose a little bit of structure but mostly coherent.
Interesting to read the way the Russian media frames the 'military operation', as they put it.
https://www.mk.ru/

This article is particularly interesting. Evosurfer, if you're out there, i think you'll get a bit out of this one...touches on alot of what you've been saying regarding China. It's pretty interesting reading the propaganda from the Russian/chinese perspective and trying to decipher truth from strategic narrative.
https://www.mk.ru/politics/2022/02/24/skvoz-prizmu-geopolitiki-kak-poni…