More from Wax Off
truebluebasher said: Who requested the most despicable reverse hostile cross national sickly song about world's #1 arsehole!
Think tbb should first warn the…
World Music... oops, I mean, music that is perhaps unfamiliar to western listeners because it's from underrepresented places..61
blackers said: A song fer Sussan.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay…
Tunes8,398
lucky-al said: Likewise, freeride76. Will call in next time I'm down your way.
Botany Nerds Ahoy2,639
seeds
said:
Oh shit yeah, I’ve been there a couple of times. Once on school camp and once as a adult 25 years younger than now.
Show us your photos
2812
seeds
said:
Opti said “Anyone who reads your past comments will easily see why you’re not worth engaging in conversation.”
No numbn
All Things Religion Thread
5463
Optimist
said:
Where I live now is perfect…..but I’ve had better in the past.
Where in AUS would you live in you could take your pick?
17
freeride76
said:
You're always going to run the risk of a big flatty busting you or biting you off on light gear and bait hooks.
I wou
Fishing tips
1149
Supafreak
said:
This guy has broken his back in 2 places plus other injuries but this horrific fall didn’t break his spirit, such a amaz
The MTB Thread
315
The big problem with that is it alienates much of the population.
If this fails as its looks like it will, it will be a real lesson for future campaigns on how not to run a referendum campaign.
These people don’t learn from the past hence our current situation.
;)
Hmmm, a prancing drag queen or neo-nazi, tough choice
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-23/white-supremacist-red-over-black…
Indo,
Just in case you were not aware, the “Voice” started development some eight years ago, with FNP, ALP and LNP representatives. It is not Labor’s Voice, in fact much of the ground work was done by the LNP whilst in Government.
Detail is noted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Voice_to_Parliament
It is not Labor’s Voice, despite what the LNP are suggesting. Our local State MP Chris Crewther was pictured recently at a NO Campaign Rally with placards “Say NO to Labors voice.” Happy to spread the bullshit it appears.
In another strange twist, many LNP members who supported the concept of the “Voice”, are now opposed, despite nothing actually changing. Let’s call it political opportunism.
It’s also blatantly apparent the NO Campaign is populated by the same people who dispute Anthropogenic Climate Change, the same people who were pictured carrying those “Ditch The Witch” and “Bob Browns Bitch” placards, the same people who supported Farage, the UKIP and Bojo in the Brexit debate, the same people who waved the Stars and Stripes in their support of Trump, and the same people who claim Covid was a scam, and the anti vaxxers. The same people who appear to attract the Neo Nazis.
All of that has to tell you something and if you can’t figure it out it’s called disruption. It’s been the LNP’s and their political support parties method of operation for the last ten years or so. Agitate, spread bullshit and misinform, undermine and generally make life difficult for the government. Ultimately, we all suffer through that course of action. Reasonable, informed and intelligent debate has been discarded and replaced by the Sky News method.
However, can you tell us all how to run a referendum campaign: I’m keen to know.
Secondly, and more importantly, what is the NO Campaign’s alternative?? Try as I might I can’t find anything remotely resembling a policy.
The political lesson for the Coalition is it will drive more younger voters away from the conservative parties all for the cause of Duttons weak leadership who needed a win.
They will see clearly the politicisation of the No arguments particularly knowing conservatives help write it under a Coalition government.
Duttons position has been taken in the full knowledge that it will be divisive, give cover for racists and extreme RWNJ's playing to the darker hearts and deeper casual racists views widely held against Aboriginals.
After the No vote gets up I suspect the genie won't want to go back into the bottle.
Albanese love or hate him ran the Voice referendum for a good cause and improvement of the situation regarding Aboriginals for which he will lose skin for, that's courage.
@Salty Dog and @ I focus. Two excellent posts right there. Well done, spot on. Don't expect any sensible, reasoned and accurate responses from the No vote rabble that post here though. To them you are a gritter or a commie who wants to make them "unequal" because a non binding advisory Voice offends their sense of entitlement and will ruin the country and give "money, power and revenge" to "activist" (Indo's spelling, not mine).
From your link:
"The concept was rejected at the time by the Liberal-National Turnbull government.[11]
In October 2019, the Liberal-National Morrison government discussed an "Indigenous voice to government" which would be legislated but not enshrined in the Constitution."
When the Turnbull the most left wing LNP PM who should have been a Labor member rejects it, that says something.
BTW. Notice how it says " legislated but not enshrined in the Constitution"
As we all know Voice in policy = no issue the issue is it being cemented in the Constitution.
Yes I can 100% tell you how to run a referendum it's not rocket science.
1. Have your shit together before you make it public, its 2023 you need a proper plan not an idea or a vibe, and you need to be able to answer every question with detail, none of this oh that will be decided latter, maybe in the past that might have cut it but not today.
Better still with something like this, it would have been smart to put it in policy first, so people can see what it is and how it works and give them confidence (problem with this is it would show everyone that its not that great)
2. Anyone involved needs to have a clean background, you cant have fools like or Thomas Mayo or Teela Reid saying all kinds of damaging things in videos etc, if you are going to risk using these types of people, you need all evidence on Youtube or social media removed (that is hard these days though)
3. You need to have a limited number of leaders like the No campaign, Jacinta and Warren have done a very good job, they are the figure heads
Bassically there is way to many indians who want to be chiefs on the yes camp, all saying different things, muddying and confusing people (Albo, Linda, Marcia, Noel, Megan Davies, Bruce Mayo, Teela reid, wanting the spot light, im sure there is a couple ive forgotten)
The No camp on the other hand in most case's have kept it simple and consistent.
4. Get your story straight, dont lie out your arse telling us on one hand its a modest proposal but on the other is some big game changer, or that its not about Treaty, while we can all see the evidence this is not true, or that its one page, when we can easily see its not.
This BS makes those on the fence lose trust in anything else you are saying.
5. Treat the public with respect, you aren't going to win anybody over shaming or name calling them or their beliefs be it chicken littles, racist, bigots, stupid, conspiracy theorist, people like Marcia and Noel have been complete gifts to the No campaign.
6. Dont be greedy, you can put all your money on red on one spin and you might win big, but its risky its much smarter to go a few spins with smaller amounts.
A two part question giving people a vote on both Constitutional recognition & the Voice would have at least got Constitutional recognition through, but its highly likely they will walk out with nothing and there is nobody to blame but themselves.
But i do get there is no money or power in Constitutional recognition.
In summary: be prepared, respectful, upfront & honest.
How good was that Waltzing Matilda at the G.
Go Lions!!
7. Keep Kamahl of the TV. How good was the Yes23 campaign using him an a pin up for a yes vote. hahahahaha
Welcome to country at the AFL grand final was pretty lame compared to last week.
No emotion, not engaging the crowd, just going through the steps for corporate wokeness.
Oil it up .
Another reason to vote NO. What a sellout grub
Damo wouldn’t have sold out
Agreed!
That’s shit Burliegh! And Pete’s pitch wasn’t nasty at all. Seems pretty obvious he’d be this way and you’re calling him a sellout grub.
Explain yourself!
14 days to go until the big day
But the other big day yesterday Bobby did us proud.
Here's the pitch:
How you vote is totally up to you but we’ve decided to run a radio advertising campaign urging people not to fall for all the bullshit that’s being thrown around by the NO campaign. Just don’t let anyone treat you like a mug - if you don’t know, find out! https://yes23.com.au/vote_yes
As i said. A sellout grub. You're dumber than i thought if you believe otherwise.
Peter Garrett sell out?
No way, was disappointed he was not as effective as he may have been joining the Labor Party, as had to work within the machine, probably Greens better fit but he wanted to make a difference.
I would say he has contributed more good to Australian society than 99% of the key board warriors on this forum.
Hey seeds, well done for calling Burleigh out on this one!
As the saying goes...'It takes one to know one'.
Oozes of cynicism.
Burleigh. Planted into the forum / debate by the dark forces, such commitment is staggering.
Says bloke who cannot offer a valid argument without abuse.
Carry on....
Hey Indo,
The ice is melting! Any ideas how to fix it champ?
Hi Reform
Odd question, but simple solution is to put the ice back in the freezer before it melts.
I agree he is no way a sell out, pushing the Yes vote is exactly what you would expect from him.
There is probably good things he has done like helping save forrest etc, but if it was up to him the hydro energy projects in Tassie would never have gotten through and Tasmania would now not be running on 100% carbon free energy.
He was also very vocal about being against Nuclear he was even in an anti nuclear party in the 80s, if there hadnt been so much opposition to nuclear in the past, its possible we would now have a small percentage of Nuclear which if we did, we would now have a base of 24/7 reliable carbon free energy which would mean the transition to 100% carbon free energy would be far far easier and much more realistic.
He has also been very divisive in regard to indigenous issue's, and helped create that all things indigenous good all things not are bad narrative that is very unhelpful .
You volunteering to have the nuclear waste in your neighbourhood Indo?
“He has also been very divisive in regard to indigenous issue's, and helped create that all things indigenous good all things not are bad narrative that is very unhelpful .”
Because as Indo has pointed out before, the closer indigenous Australians are to their culture (and Papua New Guineans as well for that matter) the more violent they are.
@ the sane Andy
Honestly id have no issue with storage of nuclear waste in my shire from a safety or environment perspective but id be worried about others perception and how that would affect my property price.
But im sure there would be much better places we have so much land in Australia and most of it is arid and very stable and it nuclear waste can be stored very safely and the amounts are very small.
BTW. im not advocating for Nuclear now i think we missed our window, Im just pointing out that if history had been different and opposition not so strong that we could be in a much better position and that Garret was a part of the problem
That said i saw Dutton was pushing for smaller nuclear reactors recently, personally i dont think thats a good political move I think even if the economics somehow stack up which i believe they dont Australian's will never support nuclear because of all the past negative spin.
As ive said 100 times now, all culture has good and bad aspects, many indigenous people embracing their culture these days obviously only try to embrace the positives and not negatives, however yes those in remote communities where culture is strongest with less outside influence still are influence by both positive and negative aspects.
Even Peter Sutton has touched on the fact that there is traditional culture drivers to issues in remote communities in Australia (although more about personal health/sanitation aspects from memory)
You love to bring this up with your piss weak snipes from the sideline and try to use it against me, how about you have some balls and take me on and prove me wrong that culture is not a driver of many issues in both remote indigenous communities and PNG
Lets take it to PNG where things are much more clear cut.
Can you bring an argument that the high rates of violence in particular towards women are not driven by cultural aspects???
Surely you cant argue it's due to past colonialism?...or Intergenerational trauma? or racism?
Come on mate give me some proper counter argument, try proving me wrong, i bet you cant, because you are just piss weak, you sit on the sidelines and throw out little snipes and then go hide until next time, at best you will come up with some lame excuse instead of a decent counter argument.
Hi Indo,
Thanks for your reply, ha-ha yes true, good one.
I read your first posting of today and thought while we humans carry on with our daily lives and our vested interests, we are all contributing to the impact of co2 emissions and we just continue on regardless. (I include myself in this too).
However, my reasoning (for what you perceive as an odd question) is referencing and is relevant to the discussion in this referendum because we now have an opportunity of opening the door to a race that is not interested in ruining the planet.
So really if we are at all interested to make changes it would be a profound start to change the dialogue and vote YES for this race who may very well know the answers and be the saviour of our existence on this beautiful and amazing planet. Dream on you say...well just continue on and see how what a 2 degree temperature rise feels like.
For the rest of us? Well.. Some of us know the answers but the majority do not. And none are as profound as the indigenous with their higher intelligence intact.
Vote yes Indo! (I know you will privately anyway) The world and its fragile ecosystems needs it and yes it matters.
The ice is melting even faster now than 1 hour ago.
It also comes down to the indigenous of this country, for over 65,000 years, being the best at negotiations due to their unmatched track record of managing their people, the ecology systems, respect for water, soil, air and lore, and their once existence on the very land that you have your office chair on before it was clear-felled by colonisation. There's so much more isn't there!
Vote yes, for goodwill, for prosperity of all, action for the marginalised indigenous, for the worlds health and esp. for the vibe, cheers
“prove me wrong that culture is not a driver of many issues in both remote indigenous communities and PNG”
At least you’ve stopped denying what you’ve said previously.
Jess Hitchcock.. wow!
interesting tactic garrett has taken...
clearly he's coming from a position he's long supported. but instead of showing outright support and 'telling people how to vote', he's gone the misinformation route...
unfortunately, I think this is more polarising and less effective than anything he would have normally done
blanket vehement vague claims of 'misinformation' without addressing anything, just don't cut it...
especially when your side plays the same game
and arguably, has played it harder in the lead up to this moment...
yet this is the new norm
gonna take a long time to heal from corona
not the disease
From among the survivors of these massacres, the troopers took women for themselves and the officers kidnapped children who ended up as servants – or worse – in white households. Despite loud and long complaints, kidnapping of Aboriginal children continued into the 20th century unpunished in Queensland.
Protests led to inquiries. This is where we honed our national skill in ventilating disgust without taking any useful action. In the first century of settlement, inquiries were held into everything agitating the colonists – from bushrangers to scab in sheep. But no issue was inquired into so often as the condition of the Aboriginal people and the workings of the Native Police.……………… Australians are beginning to face the question of what it does to the soul of a country that its foundations rest first in conquest and then in crime. I hear those crimes being defended in the referendum debate as the yes campaign is condemned as woke, ignorant and expensive – while the voice is attacked as a privilege Aboriginal Australians don’t deserve.
Behind it all I hear old familiar voices growling that nothing is owed to the native peoples of Australia, nothing at all for the continent we took from them. Absolutely nothing. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/01/the-hatred-and-greed-of-t… @indo here’s a headline you will love , pity the article is paywalled . https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/albanese-just-spent-364-million…
Geez Indo having a squiz back at some older posts, and i came across this one.
Was in reference to the almost overwhelming majority Yes vote in the 1967 referendum.
Kinda stood out.
We can’t handle the truth, right Indo?
haha, the skank sniffers are out.. indo's political kavorka is unbelievable..
just be grateful he gives you an ongoing insight into how many average Aussies think.
(now, bad-Andy, indo is not coming out to play for a while, you have upset him, he has been working on nuance, and has been doing well. he learns a lot about the world through these forums, and likes hearing from people with different views, though he would never say it.)
- congrats on the afl win, indo, and I agree re Kiss! Seemed solid as, in scorching heat, surrounded by fire, in heels no less??
Here’s some more confronting stories to ignore
At 1.05 minutes goes into why I believe the voice is needed. Why base racism is at the heart of too many government decisions. This shit has been sprouted in the media throughout this dirty NO campaign.
Maybe if we knew how this disgusting government decision played out on the ground we wouldn’t be so quick to support such measures. We’d never tolerate it! But then again we would never be subjected to it. Would we?
Now at 1.32 minutes
The children are still being taken. Numbers are staggering. How are these decisions being made? Why aren’t people being informed why and of their rights?
Obviously I haven’t fact checked this but it screams to me why a Voice is needed.
Well zero surprise you havent brought any counter argument, while ive brought this up many times there has only every been one person that has tried Brutus, and he did somehow try to argue even in PNG its was linked to colonisation, but obviously his argument was very weak and it became even weaker when we started looking at Indonesia and how it doesn't have the same issues at anywhere near the same rates but was much more affected by colonisation for a very very long time.
Anyway im not dissing Brutus, i agree with close to zero with him, its actually a pity he isnt involved in this voice conversation, for the most part ive had good civil debates with him.
And sorry no i have NEVER denied anything, what ive had a problem with is you twisting my thoughts packaged into one line trying to demonise me.
Its even worse because when i do challenge you on the topic, you are not up for it.
In regard to "cant handle the truth"
Yes i think this is true, i think it makes you become uncomfortable to did deeper, its strange but for many they feel much more comfortable beleving things were all great and peaceful and then white man came along and suddenly rates of violence magically sky rocketed and all these other issues appeared.
Yeah sure Alcohol has added fuel to things but its not a driver, neither is colonisation.
Where is Brutus?
He was a brilliant contributor to this topic, and offered a perspective not many here have.
And just because you thought his arguments were weak Indo, doesn't necessarily mean they are.
Keep in mind that's your perspective.
I thought he had a brilliant insight into many things related to this topic....i think he just got tired of butting his head against a wall with you on this particular subject.
@seeds, yep agree mate. Here's something else to add onto what you posted earlier.
Contrary to the opposers on here claiming that people like myself are trying to 'victimise' indigenous people, the reality is, i don't have to try to do anything. Just stating facts as evidence for why change is needed.
History doesn't lie. (well it did, and that's part of the problem)
'White superiority
This approach was founded on the assumption of black inferiority and white superiority. The assimilation approach was outlined at the Initial Conference of Commonwealth and State Aboriginal Authorities in 1937:
"This Conference believes that the destiny of the natives of aboriginal origin (sic), but not of the full blood, lies in their ultimate absorption by the people of the Commonwealth, and it therefore recommends that all efforts be directed to that end...The policy of the Commonwealth is to do everything possible to convert the half-caste into a white citizen.” [1]
Assimilation policies presumed that Indigenous Australians could enjoy the same standard of living as white Australians if they adopted European customs and beliefs and were absorbed into white society:
“The policy of assimilation means in the view of all Australian governments that all Aborigines and part-Aborigines are expected eventually to attain the same manner of living as other Australians and to live as members of a single Australian community enjoying the same rights and privileges, accepting the same responsibilities, observing the same customs and influenced by the same beliefs, hopes and loyalties as other Australians.” [2]
However, in practice, assimilation further undermined Indigenous identity and culture and justified the dispossession of Indigenous people and the removal of Indigenous children from their parents. According to leading Indigenous academic, Professor Michael Dodson,
“Assimilation relied on the well-established and widely-accepted view that we were inferior to white Australians, that our way of life, our culture and our languages were substandard... Embedded within the policy of assimilation was a clear expectation of the cultural extinction of Indigenous peoples.” [3]'
edit. :argh the link doesn't work anymore, but it was part of an older post. Not sure where you can find it now. Apologies for that. Will try to hunt it down.
Can't find the original link but here's a speech from the above fella, Dodson.
https://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/speeches/assimilation-versus-self…
Well worth a read. Would appeal to Indo and co to read it.
And yeah. Well done to the Pies and Bobby Hill yesterday. (although Brisbane robbed by umps in last minute). Still the most deserving team won.
Kinda ironic that an indigenous fella won the Normy eh Indo?
So how do you categorize him? A champion??
Is he in danger of getting booed off the stadiums if he were to stand up and support the voice or any other indigenous affairs?
Indo
Go and watch the YouTube doco I put up. Fast forward to 1 hour and 5 minutes. Have a look.
Lets be clear when i said his argument was weak, i was only meaning on this particular topic, when he tried to do the impossible and claim issues around violence in PNG were not rooted in culture but somehow an effect of colonialism.
Generally speaking while i rarely agreed with him, his thoughts were generally thought out and more just opinions that we disagreed with.
Like i said i like the guy not only for what he has achieved in the real world and what i know of him through videos etc, but i just thought the way he conducted himself here in debates was of good character, me and him could have a debate even get heated but get to an end point that didn't blow up, and almost agree to disagree shake hands and walk away, well that's how it felt to me.
Although that said he seemed to be good with me, while im sure someone like Blowin would agree he seemed to treat him differently in a negative way for some reason
I could be wrong but i think he got banned at one point for incidents in the religion thread, but i didnt see it, personally i was surprised as didnt think/feel a one off incident would result in that (unlike longer patterns of behaviour with tipping points) but yeah thats just my opinion and not our call.
Brutus is Banned but can still Post as Sharkman .
I did, but im not sure what your point is?
The bit about housing?
A mate i use to work with/for actually went up north to build Aboriginal housing in some remote community for about a year, he is not full on left wing but still left wing, influenced a lot my musicians views might even vote Green not sure.
He told me he went up there stoked on the job real positive and motivated happy to be getting paid decent money but also just doing something positive for the community.
However he said he came back kind of disillusioned, because he said the places often got trashed within weeks to months.
BTW. I will watch the whole video when i get a chance it looked interesting
Hoping you might have given it at least a minute. To be exact 1.05.50secs