More from Wax Off
truebluebasher said: Who requested the most despicable reverse hostile cross national sickly song about world's #1 arsehole!
Think tbb should first warn the…
World Music... oops, I mean, music that is perhaps unfamiliar to western listeners because it's from underrepresented places..61
blackers said: A song fer Sussan.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay…
Tunes8,398
lucky-al said: Likewise, freeride76. Will call in next time I'm down your way.
Botany Nerds Ahoy2,639
seeds
said:
Oh shit yeah, I’ve been there a couple of times. Once on school camp and once as a adult 25 years younger than now.
Show us your photos
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seeds
said:
Opti said “Anyone who reads your past comments will easily see why you’re not worth engaging in conversation.”
No numbn
All Things Religion Thread
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Optimist
said:
Where I live now is perfect…..but I’ve had better in the past.
Where in AUS would you live in you could take your pick?
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freeride76
said:
You're always going to run the risk of a big flatty busting you or biting you off on light gear and bait hooks.
I wou
Fishing tips
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Supafreak
said:
This guy has broken his back in 2 places plus other injuries but this horrific fall didn’t break his spirit, such a amaz
The MTB Thread
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https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2201H173S00. Outback Tragedy 7.30 report
Awesome!
https://www.denmark.wa.gov.au/news/shire-acknowledges-uluru-statement-f…
Hardly surprising from the nationals.
Ha! Yep saw this. My thoughts exactly. Seems we're moving nowhere fast.
What a speech six minutes and no notes, clear concise and on point, amazing women.
Yes you must be proud indo , pity that First Nation people don’t feel the same way about JP as you do.
Pat Dodson had some interesting points when interviewed on ABC this afternoon regarding JP.
I think she’s going to realise one day when her political life is over that she was used. She’s entitled to her opinions and they may be valid to some but these National crackers couldn’t really care about her opinion in the end. They’re only looking to sure up their vote in their regional electorates regardless of whether the voice gets up or not.
Who would be worried about listening to a voice that has no legislative power? Seriously who?
People who think they have something to lose!
Claiming it would be better off to be regionally dealt with. Why? So it can be shut down as quietly as possible?
Why can’t individual regions have a national voice concerning matters that affect them individually? Why can’t all mobs have, collectively, a national voice on matters that affect them all?
If this doesn’t happen it’s just a continuation of the old power imbalance and the archaic view that the (majority of) well to do white establishment patronisingly decide what’s best for the the the poor old incapable aboriginal.
"I think she’s going to realise one day when her political life is over that she was used."
Not sure that's a valid point. Politicians, by their nature, are used: they're the voice of the people. Just how representative they are is open for debate, but they're all 'used'.
My default setting is to resist the voice to parliament but I'm eager to see just what it entails and how people will see this playing out in five, ten, fifteen years.
Noel Pearson...... Telling it how it is with National Party.
I don’t mean used by the people. I mean, as Noel Pearson suggests in the news this morning, used by the IPA etc.
What are your concerns about the voice Stu?
That it, potentially, divides more than unites. From what I gather it'll be a device used to restore balance - I mean, it wouldn't be needed if we all shared the same standard of living.
So, in a conceptual way, it'll be similar to other social devices, such as, say, quota systems. But where quota systems are understood to have a temporary time frame - lifting minority groups so the younger generation can "be what they see" then voided once parity is reached - introducing legislation is a more permanent measure.
I'm not rock solid on it, but I feel like it's a false path towards unity. I don't think it'll make matters worse, but I also don't believe they'll make them better.
TBH I need to read more about it. Recently my wife explained how some NT laws were catching more Indigenous than white and following a very subtle redrafting of the laws Indig crew weren't being carted off for minor matters. I expect prior consultation, such as The Voice, will correct matters such as that.
For anyone interested in what Noel Pearson had to say on abc radio . https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/noel-pearson-bl…
“I expect prior consultation, such as The Voice, will correct matters such as that.”
This is how I see it. I don’t think we have to over think things.
Sorry but that makes no sense at all.
Im sure she is extremely happy to be given a platform and have her voice supported by the party on this issue by doing so it's a huge boost to her profile and her voice on the issue, i highly doubt she will feel used now or in the future.
Quite the opposite, imagine how she would feel if she was ignored by Nationals or LNP now or through her career and then post politics thought, what if i was supported by these parties ??? especially on indigenous related issues.
I dont know her future political aspirations but to me it seems she is growing in stature and confidence and is only 41, so if she has support from parties like Nationals or LNP and wants to keep going in politics and can tough it out, i think she has a good chance she will move from The Country liberal party to either Nationals or LNP and go further in politics.
Well we will have to see her local support at the next election. I see a lot of white fellas supporting her because her views align with theirs but not too many aboriginals. As Stu stated there isn’t enough information about the Voice yet to make an informed decision and yet here we are already with the Nats publicly shitting on it. Why couldn’t the Nats wait on this? Does the CLP support Jacinta’s views? I haven’t seen that anywhere. I suppose they do. I don’t know.
On another note I wonder the voter turnout in the remote aboriginal communities or even Alice or Darwin? I’d suspect apathy and low numbers. Anyone know where to find stats like this.
Hey @indo. Just for the sake of debate, could you mount an argument as to why the Australian government shouldn't be entirely made up of indigenous Australians?
Can you mount a reason why it should be?
We’re a pretty multicultural society arent we? Shouldn’t our parliament reflect this?
Yes mate @goofy.
A very simple one. This is their land and their country. Always was and always will be.
Sorry @goofy, didn't see the second part of your post. For sure we are, and i'm all down for multiculturalism, but when it's a painstaking struggle to get and indigenous voice in parliament, and as Stu pointed out, will cause division, then why not just flip the whole thing on its head, and give the reigns to the owners of this country and let them decide how they want to run it? And obviously this reeks of idealism and romantacism but i'm just making the point that why are we always looking at it from what the whitefellla thinks indigenous crew should be ''allowed'' to have and what powers they're 'allowed' to recieve.
Pretty funny watching the nationals nationally having different views and support. Littleproud has blown this by prematurely taking a side that not even all his party agree on . WA nationals sticking with the yes vote . Like it was said in parliament today, its up to the Australian public not politicians. I think Noel Pearson’s summed up littleproud perfectly, what a dressing down that was .
Yeah sorry about that BD I added the second part 10 seconds after I posted the first bit.
Yep I hear what you’re saying, to me there’s no easy answer that’s for sure.
I think if you’re born here, eg. You and I, then we have as much say as anyone else that’s born here. That’s just me and it’s a tricky subject. Obviously one that’s very close to your heart.
Cheers for your reply @goofy.
Yeah it's definitely a tricky subject. It's never felt like my 'home' but i was born here. I do feel like i belong here but i don't feel like it's my country.
My above post is just a way to look at the argument/debate from a different perspective and imagining everything the other way around, flipped on it's head.
Australian society suddenly would probably be willing to accept a 50percent non indigenous/settler government quite readily if that was the reality..., which goes all the way to my original post at the beginning of this thread about how i believe the Australian government should be made up of at least 50percent indigenous Australians, as should media control as should land ownership.
But yep, there's no easy solutions, but a changing perspective is probably a key element from the one that's persisted for the last couple of hundred years.
Jacinta : "Learjetsetting Linda dripping with Gucci > Darkens the Dirty People!"
Indigenous Minister Linda : "Wotz a Gucci? ...I don't got that...does that mean I'm not dark enough yet!"
Jacinta : "We should all be forced to model PM Howard's super villain eyebrows...outta my way you!"
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA14EDvu.img?h=…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11479959/Anthony-Albanese-defe…
Q : 'Just when did the endangered Indigenous Gauccian Tribe die out?'
A : 'Experts bizarrely believe they never went outta fashion!'
Museum Exhibit A : "Feminist Face of Gucci remodelled as The Indigenous Youth Parliament PM."
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/i-still-want-th…
Jacinta delivers an Apology to "Last Season's People!"
Obvious to all that Jacinta's scary (PM Howard's eye brows) still need a bit more teasing!
One of your best as it wasn’t (tl;dr)
Very funny
Firstly i think it's great that we have many indigenous people in parliament and not just that but indigenous people with a diverse range of views from people like Jacinta Price or previously Warren Mundine, to independents like Jacqui Lambie to even people like Lidia Thorpe, even if im not a fan of her, diversity of views is a good thing.
In regard to the whole government elected being indigenous technically, i guess it's possible if Indigenous people ran in every seat and got voted in, but chances of it happening you would expect are like one in a zillion.
Obviously we live in a democracy where every Australian can run to be elected that is over 18 (some possible restrictions on criminal charges etc) and all Australians over 18 can also vote.
And we are all Australians no matter our ethnic backgrounds or skin colour so obviously it would go against our values and id even expect the law to discriminate and only give one ethnic group in Australia the right to run for government or the right to vote.
In my opinion in an ideal world those in parliament would also reflect the make up in society for example if 50% of the population is women and 50% men it would be great to also have that mix in parliament.
It would even be great to see Australians of all types of ethnic backgrounds in government in similar percentages to seen in the Australian community be it Asian, Indian, African, European, Middle Eastern and of course indigenous decent.
But for the Australian government to be made up of just one single ethnic group of Australians be it Asian, Indian, African, European, Middle Eastern or Indigenous decent, well i think that would be undemocratic and wrong on so many different levels and id expect not many people would disagree with me.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/nationals-oppos…. Nationals' opposition to the Voice 'extremely disappointing': Ken Wyatt. He says he took a "detailed" report with a model for a Voice to parliament to the former Coalition cabinet, twice.
What an embarrassment, what a national disgrace.
Hopefully this is another nail in coffin of the Nationals as an electable political party.
Smiling happy people
Hey Supafreak. Now there’s a ‘motley crew’ if I’ve ever seen one. Totally disgraceful. It includes one ‘coconut’, I’ll leave it up to you to try and find out the context of that word. AW.
White inside I’m guessing. No one looks particularly comfortable in that photo.
Wiki
In January of that year, Greens Lingiari candidate George Hanna had shared a racist meme attacking Price, referring to her as a "coconut" (an ethnic slur). Price described the post as despicable, and called for the Greens to disendorse Hanna, but the Greens refused.[17] Aboriginal activist Steve Hodder Watt accused Price of hypocrisy, and published messages in which Price referred to him as "white".[18][19]
ps George is indigenous
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/a-greens-candidate-apologises-for-r…
Cheers for your above reply @indo. obviously we have pretty strong opposing views but can see theres some common ground there.
Yeah was just a hypothetical for a different perspective.
You do know the term "coconut" is a racial slur???
Obviously the meaning is they appear black/brown on the outside but white on the inside.
While still demeaning and offensive no matter who says it, just like the N word you might be able to get away with it if you are a person of colour, but if your white it's a racial slur arguable a racist remark.
It's wrong and backwards on a number of levels.
Firstly you are implying that someone doesn't think or act a certain way based on a racial stereotype of how you believe an ethnic group should act or think(which is racist in itself), your propagating the idea that there is only one correct way for an indigenous person to think or act, instead of being individuals who like all of us should be free to think and act how we like without being limited by our background or skin colour.
It's damaging for both indigenous people and others to think this way,
For example, imagine in a remote Indigenous community if the local mob thought this way and a young girl had dreams of going to the city and being a doctor or a politician but all her life her mob was continually putting her down saying she is a coconut and not a real aboriginal person and just wants to be like white people, would it help her succeed or would it eventually wear her down and dampen her dream and see her settle for less.?
I agree the use of such words is a step too far however it’s use suggests a high degree of frustration directed at Price after all while an elected senator she represents no aboriginal community nor organisation in any way formally or otherwise and yet she’s seemingly happy to be the “aboriginal” voice for the Nats, Murdoch and the IPA.
Why did the nats need JP to deliver their no to the voice message ? Why couldn’t Littleproud simply state his (and some not all nationals ) position on the voice ? It’s not hard to figure out.
Wasn't going to get involved in this as I don't have time anymore but had to put this in here.
My eldest daughter went out with a part aboriginal guy for a while. Really nice kid and great family. He was beaten up on a regular basis for being too white.
How do you know that GS? Please don't quote media reports. Also thought in today's society there is no excuse for being called a coconut.
I'm waiting to see how Alfred Wallace explains this but if it's as I think then it's a step too far and will have to be dealt with.
Wasn't meant to get anybody in trouble here Stunet. Just had to point out the hypocrisy.
100% agree oxrox, it’s unacceptable and I’m sorry to hear your story. I worked in the area for about 4-5 years and heard that slur used often and witnessed the volcanic reactions in all sorts of closed and public meetings. Very hurtful. My post was, perhaps poorly, trying to highlight the hurt someone like Price can cause, not on a personal but national level, to aboriginal people. Listening to Price is like listening to the one climate change denying scientist and ignoring the 1,000s who believe it’s real. She doesn’t represent aboriginal people yet knows what’s best apparently and is therefore repeating the 200+ years colonisation history. Thanks for your question, cheers.
Nah, I'd already seen it, mate.
All Jacinta does is bring a different viewpoint to things and highlights issues that media or others often dont like to touch like domestic violence in remote communities, or cultural drivers.
Apart from being elected by the wider community yes she doesn't represent one community or organisation but neither do other indigenous politician like Lidia Thorpe who is also vocal on indigenous issues.
No leader really represent a whole community even if there is one dominating/popular viewpoint because communities are made up of individuals who all think and feel differently.
Regarding the voice, Ironically enough while coming from opposite political spectrums its one area where crazily enough Jacinta and Lidia seem to agree to some extent, saying it will achieve little and is just a waste of money that could be spent on real issues.
BTW. Saying Jacinta is somehow like a climate denier is ridiculous, i expect you are referring to her and others who believe there is cultural aspects/drivers to indigenous issues of violence.
With the historical and physical evidence It's impossible to deny this aspect to some degree, the argument should be more to what level do cultural elements contribute and to what level do other elements like colonisation contribute.
Its an answer that we will probably really never know and very complex.
Relevant article to the question who does Price speaks for
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/jacinta-price-doe…
Alfred Wallace is not calling Jacinta a coconut. It is quite obvious by his wording and the use of inverted commas/comma. I put up a link to where the use of “coconut” was from and it was said by an aboriginal man. I believe that photo and Alfred’s use of a quoted word was highlighting how Jacinta’s support mainly comes from white right wingers that her ideals align with and not with the majority of the aboriginal people she represents or from, as pointed out in that Gaurdian article, the land councils of the Territory.
I agree with Indo on this. Australia will go to a referendum on the Voice and it is important that all the viewpoints of indigenous Australians get to be aired and considered on their merits so the decision they make is as informed as possible. Price is entitled to put her case to the Australian people as much as Linda Burney or Noel Pearson or Warren Mundine. Racially slurring her because you don't agree is pathetic and achieves nothing, listen to what she has to say and decide if you agree or not. She deserves respect for putting herself out there and arguing her position.
No one here is racially slurring her. I also stated a page back she’s entitled to her opinions. The Nats and herself are trying to stamp out the conversation before more details are available. How can they say they don’t support it yet when they don’t know the full details yet. Because they don’t care if it has merit or not. With their platform they are the only opinion really being heard. They are trying to ride roughshod over the debate before it’s even started.
We should definitely hear Jacinta Price's views and judge them on their merits.
And according to a very wide range of (reputable and respected) Indigenous people, the judgement is that she doesn't speak for them.
As far as I'm concerned, it's not a matter of whether or not I agree with her, it's a matter of the Indigenous people she purports to represent not agreeing with her.
The only thing I would question is , is it really her position or are there other players scripting her speeches ? Here’s her speaking at the IPA a few months ago and at 2.24 she has some lovely things to say about the murdochs .
"For example, imagine in a remote Indigenous community if the local mob thought this way and a young girl had dreams of going to the city and being a doctor or a politician but all her life her mob was continually putting her down saying she is a coconut and not a real aboriginal person and just wants to be like white people, would it help her succeed or would it eventually wear her down and dampen her dream and see her settle for less.?"
interesting example
my girlfriend was working as a nurse in a hospital up NW, one of her workmates was regularly referred to as a 'coconut' for having the audacity to get a job and wanting to help her community...
bloody upstarts!
such a dilemma and disincentive though for aborignal people... but at the same time, many an unfortunate utteramce is said in anger, frustration or jest. and, its pretty confronting how un-politically correct many aboriginal people are when you spend time with them
in fact, in rougher parts of australia, the whiteys and blackfellas communicate in a manner that would leave most inner city melbournites disgusted - and im not necessarily talking in a negative manner...
oz is a big big place, with a vast array of cultures, to think the redfern (or newtown) set have a monopoly on what's good for aboriginal people is just plain ignorance and hubris
pretty sure there's heaps of indigenous folk voting for price in her electorate
even if they don't agree with all of her positions on everything
...but, a canceller's gotto cancel...
I guess
the contemporary trope of 'structural racism' ... (that no one ever dares / bothers to explain...) is an interesting one... if we look at aboriginal people as a percentage of population - they are already 'over represented' in parliment...
not complaining, i think its good, just making the comment