@info #there’salwaysacomment

indo, no system is perfect and I agree that there is waste in government run services. There is also rorting by the private sector as well.

I’m easily swayed by logical arguments but the small government, low taxes mantra doesn’t make much sense to me. If government doesn’t fund services then either services disappear or you end up paying for them by paying private companies, eg toll roads or health insurance. If Australia didn’t have Medicare a doctors visit or hospital treatment would be a fairly substantial out of pocket expense

Locally I see private schools building massive halls and entertainment complexes, gymnasiums, solar farms etc, advertising billboards on all the major roads, all subsidised by government. That’s not educating kids, which is what the money is meant for. The public system would not be worse off without the private schools if the same level of funding was used in public schools That statement is a furphy used by private school principals shoring up their funding

My gripe isn’t with private education, like you say, choice is great, however I don’t think taxes should be used to create a two tiered system where one level is crying out for basic needs to be met when another is awash in funds. The effects in years to come will be a disaster. I’m all for an equitable distribution of taxes that is a benefit to all Australians not a select few, particularly those who have no problem affording that type of luxury.

Anyway this link gives an idea of what is going on with education funding better than I can explain.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-13/rich-school-poor-school-australi…

"it helps ensure that the the government doesn't have the burden of running things"

Jeez, you wouldn't want the government running things eh Indo?

AndyM wrote:

"it helps ensure that the the government doesn't have the burden of running things"

Jeez, you wouldn't want the government running things eh Indo?

The government has a very long list of things to run and our taxes to pay for, and as we know from literally hundreds of pages on swellnet those that are happy with how governments run things are very rare, because as we know they are inefficient in use of money and labour and everything wrapped in red tape.

So pretty crazy when people like you want the government to control more things in your life and to also have less choice.

But yeah thats where you and my ideologies differ your a lefty, so you want big government, high taxes and the government to control your life.#

Im a conservative i want the opposite, i want small government, minimal taxes and least government involvement in my life.

# Anyone who didn't enjoy the government controlling their life during Covid, should probably rethink their political ideologies.

Fliplid wrote:

indo, no system is perfect and I agree that there is waste in government run services. There is also rorting by the private sector as well.

I’m easily swayed by logical arguments but the small government, low taxes mantra doesn’t make much sense to me. If government doesn’t fund services then either services disappear or you end up paying for them by paying private companies, eg toll roads or health insurance. If Australia didn’t have Medicare a doctors visit or hospital treatment would be a fairly substantial out of pocket expense

Locally I see private schools building massive halls and entertainment complexes, gymnasiums, solar farms etc, advertising billboards on all the major roads, all subsidised by government. That’s not educating kids, which is what the money is meant for. The public system would not be worse off without the private schools if the same level of funding was used in public schools That statement is a furphy used by private school principals shoring up their funding

My gripe isn’t with private education, like you say, choice is great, however I don’t think taxes should be used to create a two tiered system where one level is crying out for basic needs to be met when another is awash in funds. The effects in years to come will be a disaster. I’m all for an equitable distribution of taxes that is a benefit to all Australians not a select few, particularly those who have no problem affording that type of luxury.

Anyway this link gives an idea of what is going on with education funding better than I can explain.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-13/rich-school-poor-school-australi…

There is always a balance in these things to me the current system in most areas is a pretty good balance for instance you need a public health care system, but you also need a private system, it provides people choice.

Private and public schools same deal, we have a big private school near us too and im not a fan of it and it most likely receives too much money, the argument of how much funding they should get or not get isn't one i can have, it would have to be judged on a case by case basis.

I regards to public schools im sure its an area most people will always think is underfunded or needs to improved, thats just life.

Privately owned toll roads is one rare area that I'm totally against maybe even the only area it should be all public owned.

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

.sorry I’ve shortened my third edit, in short I’m best not to engage with Indo on these matters.

gsco wrote:

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

That makes no sense whatsoever?

The social economic disadvantaged will always be trapped into using a public system, if you do away with the private system they still have to use the public system, all it means is the public system has more pressure on it increasing things like wait times even further.

Having a private system along with a public system means if you dont want to wait you can pay extra and have a higher level of service or be seen quicker, yeah sure you need money to use a private system and its not something everyone can afford, but it still provides choice and even for those struggling financially many at some stage might pay to get seen quicker and again it takes pressure off the public system so we all benefit.

If there was no private system obviously we would have less choice and if you wanted to seek an alternative you would be forced to travel overseas for private care.

BTW. Im coming from a point of view of someone that 99% of the time has used the public system and doesn't even have private health insurance.

Of course Labor voters(not saying you) always try to scare people into thinking LNP want to do way with the pubic system and we will become like the USA, anyone who takes them seriously is crazy, it's just not reality, funding of medicare under LNP since Labor were last in increased by 50%, from just under 20 billion to just over 30 million.

We have spoken about this before and it seems everyone has different experiences and maybe im just lucky in my area or other areas I've lived, but in my experience the whole system has improved noticeably since the 90s, even on the dole with a health care card at times i was forced to pay to see a doctor or some medical service, now at an age i can afford to pay, i never pay anything, even being in hospital for a week the biggest cost was the car park fee's when my wife came to visit.

Again i get that everyones experiences differ but at the end of he day we all have to measure things on our own experiences.

gsco wrote:

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

100% in agreement. It's a false choice.

it seems your experience is incredibly lucky indo...

my old man had private health insurance, which did allow him to bypass waiting lists and recieve a higher standard of service etc. (by servants and waiters - as an ex nurse girlfriend described working in private) but 'the gap' he still had to pay was ridiculous, $1000s of dollars at times

as I've said before, I often have had to wait up to a week just to see a GP...

freeride having to hold the ER hostage essentially just to get help...

flollo's mother, or in law or whatever, having to travel overseas just to get an operation... an old chook, obviously in pain, travelling overseas, spending 20k for an operation in a third world country...

people waiting 6-12 months just for an initial consultation to see a specialist... to only then get on another waiting list...

'ramping' of 12 hours or more...

these are all signs of a system in crisis

yes our public and private systems are excelkent - when / if you can actually get admited into them -. but these shortcomings of them are well beyond operational procedures...

the public / private promise has not delivered

and we are only in the infantile stages of that transition, where one could argue we are still enjoying the benefits of a once excellent public system

american style, woeful inequality and outcomes system here we come...

the australian transition has unfortunately been captured by private health system lobbyists (yeh, that old chestnut) ...who have a clear vision - that does not include any semblance of equality...

it doesn't have to be US versus nordic 'full socialism'

japan is often touted as having one of the best systems in the world

where oz 'dreams' of having things like dental and physio'extras' included are the basics

the japanese system...

"The health care system in Japan provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%. Payment for personal medical services is offered by a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. All residents of Japan are required by the law to have health insurance coverage. People without insurance from employers can participate in a national health insurance programme, administered by local governments. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice and cannot be denied coverage. Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians.

Medical fees are strictly regulated by the government to keep them affordable. Depending on the family’s income and the age of the insured, patients are responsible for paying 10%, 20%, or 30% of medical fees, with the government paying the remaining fee.[1] Also, monthly thresholds are set for each household, again depending on income and age, and medical fees exceeding the threshold are waived or reimbursed by the government.

Uninsured patients are responsible for paying 100% of their medical fees, but fees are waived for low-income households receiving a government subsidy..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan

for emphasis...

"Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians.

Medical fees are strictly regulated by the government to keep them affordable"

it seems australia's race for 'freedom' and 'choice' may have overlooked a thing or two...

like putting patients, population, and equality above company profits

"Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians."

that is some quality starting point!

Reading other peoples experiences i think my area must be better than most but even when i lived on the Goldie, Sunny Coast and Fraser island (Hervey bay) my experiences were all real positive.

Just last week i noticed late Thursday arvo id run out of a daily medication, wife was all negative, you wont get an appointment until next week, and im like really, so i rang up and got a spot for Friday at 4:00 no issues.

All free they dont even make you sign or show anything these days.

And my local doctors are real good always Indian, Pakistan, Chinese and yeah im racially stereotyping here but fuck IMHO they are generally better than bule doctors, i never get the feeling im being rushed and they are so thorough, only issue is they only stay around for a few years as i guess fulfil regional placements before being able to work in city areas.

I had a bit of a health scare the other year, i thought i had a mini stoke and weird tingling sensations in different areas of body including my head and was getting regular headaches so i had to get all types of scans and blood test at different places, my Pakistan doctor was so good, explored evety avenue all kinds of test, couldn't fault her amazing doctor.

Most test were free, but maybe there was one or two i had to pay for, but nothing crazy.

Luckily my health ended up being not serious and just a bulged disc affecting a nerve and then my doctor even gave me a referral to go see a local physiotherapist half a dozen free appointments, that were actually quite good helped a lot and even learnt how to self manage things better.

Maybe one day i will have a different experience but for now I'm happy with the system.

I’m not basing my judgement off Australia, which is a great country.

I’m basing it off a short period of living in the US, which is the logical outcome of the direction Australia is edging towards each year.

Have a look at how stratified, unequal and unfair access to and the outcomes are in health and education there, and how dependent they are on how much money you have.

The wealthy have access to the highest level of services in the world.

There is a huge underbelly of poverty and disadvantaged, with access to basically nothing and who are left to rot in hell.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

ALP just keeps on lying and rorting and selling out Australians to the international corporations. Democracy in Australia is a sham.

From the highly undervalued Macrobusiness sit

+

Stage 3 tax cuts another gas cartel disaster

By Houses and Holes

It doesn’t do to remember anything in the Australian political economy. It goes against every instinct of the iMSM and our Rum Corps leadership.

Memory equals accountability and we can’t have that.

Today’s debate about Stage 3 tax cuts is a case in point. The original package of cuts, priced at $158bn, only passed the parliament thanks to the signature of Rex Patrick in the senate. He signed on the basis that, in return, Australia would toughen its domestic reservation regime for the gas cartel.

Knowing full well what a “psycho” he was dealing with in Scott Morrison, Patrick extracted a written contract, via The Australian:

Centre Alliance has received a written guarantee outlining the Morrison government’s gas policy, which the key minor party demanded in exchange for its support for the $158 billion personal income tax cuts package.

The copy of the draft gas policy, which has been signed by the government, was given to Centre Alliance senators last night ahead of a crucial vote in the Senate today on the tax cuts.

Centre Alliance senator Rex Patrick told The Australian in June he wanted a “clear understanding” of the government’s intention on gas, and the details in writing, before supporting the tax cuts.

Senator Patrick told The Australian the document detailed the measures of the government’s gas plan and the timetable in which they would be rolled out “over the next few months”.

A part of the deal was a review of the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism which concluded:

The review recognises that price is an important indicator in establishing whether the domestic market is functioning effectively and considers that the ACCC’s forward LNG netback price series is the most applicable prices when estimating the likelihood and extent of a potential shortfall. As such, the review recommends amending the ADGSM’s guidelines to include referencing the ACCC’s LNG netback price series in estimating a potential shortfall.

This amendment clarifies the relevance of the ACCC’s LNG netback price series to considerations under the ADGSM and strengthens the ADGSM’s ability to deliver on its objective of securing domestic gas supply.

This never happened. At the time, Labor was jumping up and down demanding that the gas price be regulated at $7Gj:

MORRISON GOVERNMENT GAS DEAL

July 05, 2019

Gas prices have skyrocketed under the Liberals – already leading three manufacturers to close down and threatening the viability of many more businesses according to the ACCC.

The Coalition has talked a big game but has refused to bring big gas companies to heel.

Under Senator Rex Patrick’s deal, the Government has committed that gas prices for Australian manufacturers and households will be cut to $7 a gigajoule or less.

It is now time for the Government to deliver clear detail about how this price will be achieved and when by; and what does Scott Morrison propose to do if manufacturers find themselves unable to source gas at the price promised by the Government.

Yet, bizarrely, Labor has just agreed to an LNG netback price benchmark for the ADGSM that will deliver not $7Gj gas but $70Gj. Who “has refused to bring big gas companies to heel”?

I ask you, should tax cuts for the rich go ahead when the opposite side of the parliamentary contract to pass them, cheap gas and power prices, have not?“

rum corp government, spot on, i use that anology (?) too, a pox on both party's.
this icac is a farce before it begins, it should be federal looking into state govt deals with miners, hydro carbon etc.
how state govt beaurocracy's (worksafe, workcover, epa, csiro) let them off for breaches of oz laws and illegaly change legislation to suit their paymasters (multinational, property developers etc). and sadly it won't change.
democracy , ha! no way, plutocracy...yes.

indo the problem isn't having a public and private system. The problem is that tax money is diverted from the public system to prop up the private system and this is gradually eroding the public side of things.

Tax money is going to wealthy schools whose clientele are millionaires and can afford to pay for the education. The result is that the private school uses the tax money to build a gymnasium with an indoor swimming pool while a public primary school around the corner can't afford a coat of paint on ageing buildings.

By the way, you're starting to sound like a closet socialist with all this reliance on the public system, where's your aspirations and have a go attitude ;)

Anyway, I've had my rant. Have a good weekend

The problem is it's too hard to know if this is really true or if its just a perception of the situation.

The only way to really know is to look at the whole of Australia's funding for private and public schools and see where funding has increased and also where demand has increased.

My understanding is funding is pretty complex because it's a mix of state and federal funding, so you could probably cherry pick things for a certain view either way if only looking at one state or at only state funding or federal government funding.

Again maybe I'm lucky but we just had a year 7 to 10 new public school built near us, so I'm not complaining, and i was shocked in how fast it went through from announcement to completion.

Obviously I'm not a socialist but I'm just like most people i dont want everything privately owned or publicly owned, I think we all kind of agree in one sense its more just the balance we dont agree on.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/16/private-school-f…. Government funding for private schools in Australia has increased at nearly five times the rate of public school funding over the past 10 years according to new analysis, with predictions of a $74bn shortfall in money for public schools this decade despite the shift to a needs-based scheme.

The analysis compared combined commonwealth and state government funding for schools in 2009-10 to 2019-20, based on the Productivity Commission’s report on government services, released earlier this month. It was conducted by the public school advocacy group Save our Schools……… Overall, in 2019-20 the commonwealth spent $3,246 on public school students and the states spent $11,935, for a total of $15,181. Meanwhile, the commonwealth spent $10,211 for each private school student and the states spent $2,978, a total of $13,189. The figures exclude user cost of capital, depreciation, payroll tax and school transport as these items are not included in the funding figures for private schools.

I dont know if thats true or not, its a Guardian article so i would take anything from the Guardian with a big grain of salt its bound to cherry pick and paint a certain view they are extremely clever at twisting things to come to an viewpoint that there audience wants to hear, also as i mentioned above you have to take into account for where demand is, funding is always going to follow demand.

Anyway so far I've been very happy with the public school where my kids go, sure there is some woke indoctrination like my daughter the other day telling me she is half Asian so cant be racist cause apparently only white people can be racist, but you can just do a bit of re-education at home and explain that well thats just not true and explain why.

indo-dreaming wrote:

I dont know if thats true or not, its a Guardian article so i would take anything from the Guardian with a big grain of salt its bound to cherry pick and paint a certain view they are extremely clever at twisting things to come to an viewpoint that there audience wants to hear, also as i mentioned above you have to take into account for where demand is, funding is always going to follow demand.

Anyway so far I've been very happy with the public school where my kids go, sure there is some woke indoctrination like my daughter the other day telling me she is half Asian so cant be racist cause apparently only white people can be racist, but you can just do a bit of re-education at home and explain that well thats just not true and explain why.

Hahahahaha!!

You dont have to dig very deep, doesn't sound that bad

Maybe its the states that aren't pulling their weight.

Media Release Date:14 February 2022

Morrison Government delivers record schools funding

Ministers:
The Hon Stuart Robert MP
Minister for Employment, Workforce, Skills, Small and Family Business
Acting Minister for Education and Youth

The Morrison Government continues to deliver record school funding to support the educational needs of Australian students now and into the future, according to a Productivity Commission report.

The annual Report on Government Services 2022 (RoGS) provides information on the equity, effectiveness and efficiency of government services in Australia.

The latest RoGS report shows the share of public expenditure on all schools provided by the Australian Government increased from 26.3 per cent in 2012–2013 to 31.7 per cent in 2019–2020.

Acting Minister for Education and Youth, Stuart Robert, said this growth shows the Government is targeting its education funding right with initiatives like the Quality Schools package.

‘The report shows that between 2012-13 and 2019-20, Australian Government funding per student for all schools increased significantly in real terms,’ Minister Robert said.

‘Government schools have been the biggest beneficiary of this growth, with Commonwealth per student funding growing by 64.1 per cent in real terms over the past 10 years compared with 49.8 per cent in non-government schools.

‘We are investing record funding of $315.2 billion for all schools between 2018 and 2029 under the Quality Schools package. A record $24.8 billion will be invested in schools this year, and a further record $26.4 billion is expected next year.

‘Since we came to Government in 2013, funding across all schools has increased by 91.2 per cent. Government schools have seen the biggest Commonwealth funding increase, with funding growing by 115.3 per cent since 2013.

‘Commonwealth funding for students in regional and remote Australia is growing from $4.4 billion in 2018 to an estimated $7.3 billion in 2029, an increase of 67.1 per cent.’

Oz Oct 2021 > 2022 = Covid Cases x2 > Deaths x3

ADF $6.5b blowout > 28 plans 97 years behind.
Govt Ads 1/4 Politicized
ALP death by Stage 3 cuts....

Choose yer weapons...
Unmasked Boris Office Party
Johnny's AWB Butchered WMD
Smug Muskavite's Spaced Out Peace Pipe

Pick this one : Albo's Stage 3 Pain Free Sanction Buster

Aug 2022 : Oz increases Imports from Enemy Russia by 12.3%
Aug 2022 : Oz increases Exports to Enemy Russia by 88%
Aug 2022 : Oz fast tracks weapons funnelling to Enemy Russia by 300% ($4m > $16m)

(1) Fast tracks War & ADF (2) No Dopey MSM Sanctions (3) Pays for VIP Tax Cuts.
Pandemic : No Tests + No Reports > No Iso = No Covid
Business will still be able to Mandate Bivalent Vax for Sunburn & Pimples but not Covid.

Strange how immaculate conceptions are never witnessed by Breaky TV.
Everyone just goes on pretending Oz have got this...sure mate...still a pack of Bastards!

Labor promised $275 off your power bills & now power bills are going up 35%+.

And by 35% they mean > 100%.

But at least they’re making up for the “deficit” in immigration by bringing in Doctors, teachers and nurses who can’t speak English and have less than adequate qualifications. That should work well!

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/visa-changes-lower-the-bar-for-…

Democracy in Australia is a sham.

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Poorly disguised swearword!

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

Roadkill wrote:

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

And you voted for Scomo….FFS.

“All-time immigration highs. Tax cuts for the needy rich. Carte blanche for resource miners. Cash rivers for god schools. King Charles forever and ever. Gee, it’s just as well we got rid of that bad old Morrison guy. Breath of fresh air.”

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

And you voted for Scomo….FFS.

like most things, you have nfi.

the queen of assumptions is all you are.

So who did you vote for?

Ed Husic showing some spirit in the ranks:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/team-australia-or-team-greed-hu…

"Manufacturing companies and other big gas users are warning they cannot stay afloat under soaring energy costs. Husic accused gas companies, which supply both the local market and export LNG from Gladstone, of “milking gas prices” and demanded they offer Australian companies contracts at cut prices."

Just re: manufacturing and a diverse business environment, I'm noticing where I am now many diverse businesses have been replaced by wall-to-wall 24 hour fitness establishments. Literally 3 of them shoulder to shoulder in one place!

Husic is only representing his business lobby mates. Notice he doesn’t once mention energy prices for the 25.99999 million Australians who aren’t in the manufacturing business sector. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that the business sector needs and deserves cheap Aussie energy but no more or less than households.

ALP once again showing that it doe’s not represent Australians at all.

Useless cnts.

yep when we get back the gas will be replaced with a much better setup, big shoutout to Alfred Wallace here for inspiration. I worked out in terms of savings it'll pay itself back in 2 years (before 35% price rise), will not materially affect other energy consumption. Sayonara, east coast gas bill!

velocityjohnno wrote:

yep when we get back the gas will be replaced with a much better setup, big shoutout to Alfred Wallace here for inspiration. I worked out in terms of savings it'll pay itself back in 2 years (before 35% price rise), will not materially affect other energy consumption. Sayonara, east coast gas bill!

VJ. Good on you and your family, you’ll never regret it.. In Victoria at present you can get your P.V system with no funds spent by you upfront. They ( state government) give nearly $2K and the other $2K you pay back interest free for around $35 per month, it simply can’t be made any easier. The motive in this state is to assist people who in turn assist them reaching their 2035 no fossil fuel use target. They’ve deduced that it will eventually make the running of the state cheaper under green energy than it does under the current regime. With the planning almost completed for the Star of The Sea wind turbine project in Bass Strait comprising of an area with a rectangular grid arrangement covering an area of around 458km2 and the winding of of all environmental impact statements and studying migrating patterns of all zoological animals as well as the botanical life forms, Victoria will be connected to energy generation across a diverse geographical and topographical range. Here’s to the future.
VJ. Thanks for the kind words mate. Always enjoy your discussions, your fairness and wide ranging knowledge of all topics. BTW, I’ve almost finished my lengthy write up about coastal dunes system as per when we last spoke. Spinifex remember?
AW.

That's awesome Alfred! Imagine a world where our grandchildren's children get pitted on perfect beachy A frames cos we solved the Marram problem. Pitted every takeoff!

We already have the PV, so this is the hot water upgrade. My general rule is if it can pay back in 4yrs, I can justify the spend. From the coastal erosion I've seen here on the midwest coast (I know, La Nina elevated sea levels with currents by 10-15cm, but the erosion is a reminder of what could happen) it's probably a good thing to do beyond the cost.

Could be up for vehicle upgrade and electric still too much to justify so a 2nd handy would do, what do crew think of E85? Better for environment I'd think, better as not fossil fuel money to send offshore, too.

velocityjohnno wrote:

That's awesome Alfred! Imagine a world where our grandchildren's children get pitted on perfect beachy A frames cos we solved the Marram problem. Pitted every takeoff!

We already have the PV, so this is the hot water upgrade. My general rule is if it can pay back in 4yrs, I can justify the spend. From the coastal erosion I've seen here on the midwest coast (I know, La Nina elevated sea levels with currents by 10-15cm, but the erosion is a reminder of what could happen) it's probably a good thing to do beyond the cost.

Could be up for vehicle upgrade and electric still too much to justify so a 2nd handy would do, what do crew think of E85? Better for environment I'd think, better as not fossil fuel money to send offshore, too.

VJ. Yes definitely agree with you E85 and other ethanol based fuels are better for the environment at present, they comprise of about 50-80% of ethanol as per the total volume coming out at the bowser. It least it’s a reduction in polluting gases.
Marram, what a mistake that was, but there’s 1000’s more.
I’ve surfed down that whole west coast of France on the Bay of Biscay. Lacanau down to Biarritz, sandy beaches like ours. Looked just like beaches in Ocean Grove and other places in Victoria, hardly a difference in the dunal system bar a few different plant species. Another coastal invasive plant translocated from the Euro-Med region to Oz. Mind you, way better waves than OG

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Better than the previous cnt's all the same.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-11/robodebt-reviews-wiped-governmen…
Saying that, I'm not real happy to hear Marles contemplating sending troops to advise in Ukraine.
Re immigration, what do you suggest to help with rapidly aging population with major shortages in GP's and other health care workers which this will require? Never mind other industries.
Takes a decade to get a Doctor trained up. Another fark up from previous mob that Labor are meant to fix in 6 months. Have a GP mate and he's now studying further to become skin cancer doc because he can not handle the shit that goes with being a GP along with the previous mob stripping and dismantling medicare. Funny how problems only come to Media's attention after election.

andy-mac wrote:

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Better than the previous cnt's all the same.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-11/robodebt-reviews-wiped-governmen…

Saying that, I'm not real happy to hear Marles contemplating sending troops to advise in Ukraine.

Re immigration, what do you suggest to help with rapidly aging population with major shortages in GP's and other health care workers which this will require? Never mind other industries.

Takes a decade to get a Doctor trained up. Another fark up from previous mob that Labor are meant to fix in 6 months. Have a GP mate and he's now studying further to become skin cancer doc because he can not handle the shit that goes with being a GP along with the previous mob stripping and dismantling medicare. Funny how problems only come to Media's attention after election.

Yes Andy-mac, the health systems problems have been a generation in the making,

It's a disgrace that a country as wealthy as Australia has failed to train sufficient numbers of doctors and nurses, we have been importing their skills for 20 years!!

This whole debacle is an abject failure in Australian public health policy.

san Guine wrote:

andy-mac wrote:

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Better than the previous cnt's all the same.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-11/robodebt-reviews-wiped-governmen…

Saying that, I'm not real happy to hear Marles contemplating sending troops to advise in Ukraine.

Re immigration, what do you suggest to help with rapidly aging population with major shortages in GP's and other health care workers which this will require? Never mind other industries.

Takes a decade to get a Doctor trained up. Another fark up from previous mob that Labor are meant to fix in 6 months. Have a GP mate and he's now studying further to become skin cancer doc because he can not handle the shit that goes with being a GP along with the previous mob stripping and dismantling medicare. Funny how problems only come to Media's attention after election.

Yes Andy-mac, the health systems problems have been a generation in the making,

It's a disgrace that a country as wealthy as Australia has failed to train sufficient numbers of doctors and nurses, we have been importing their skills for 20 years!!

This whole debacle is an abject failure in Australian public health policy.

Yep, I guess both sides of politics have contributed to the situation, but I am of the opinion that the LNP actively want to have a system such as USA. They cannot just come out and say it, so do it cut by cut. Refer to IPA's wish list to see what LNP policies are.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Hey, he is of use.Hes trying hard to beat Cough Whitless's record of OS holidays in the first 6 months of his term(that could be a typo).

As well as setting the precedent of being Mr 33%..or is it 33rpms(kinda slow)...

His 33% is a Turd of all voters and thats who he attracts, just shitheads.

Sweet Jesus , Andy Mac .

Why are you still rabbiting on about the “ALP is better compared to the LNP”?

Is it too much for people to expect the ALP to be much more than just marginally better than the absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe?

Your apologist routine is way past it’s expiry date.

DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Sweet Jesus , Andy Mac .

Why are you still rabbiting on about the “ALP is better compared to the LNP”?

Is it too much for people to expect the ALP to be much more than just marginally better than the absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe?

Your apologist routine is way past it’s expiry date.

Ok point taken... I'm done. :)

Jeez andy-mac, why are you done? So, are we all just accepting this nihilistic sentiment?. @DSDS I understand that you're frustrated but 'absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe'. Or the second to that I guess for Labor.

Really? I would give that attribute to a genocidal dictator. Luckily, we don't have anything like that around here.

We don’t do genocidal dictators in modern Australia so there’s not much point granting Scomo leeway because he’s not that low. Although, as a gentle reminder of just how awful a human he is, here he is smirking up a storm as the WEF heaps unearned praise upon him.

BTW …its illustrative watching how Scomo blushes at praise from an institute he obviously considers superior to his position. Recall that Scomo quite literally did not ever give a single fuck about how the Australian people judged his decisions until they took his power away at the ballot box but even then Scomo didn’t truly care about how 26 million Australians thought beyond how it affected him directly . Yet here he is with an unelected , non-representative bunch of nobodies who have done nothing beyond declare themselves a “ global institution” and throw money at the cause. This is the non-democratic route being taken by democracy throughout the West. As far as I can ascertain, the WEF has no more legitimacy than the Ponds Institute …..but watch Scomo grovel to see where real power lies these days.

No mistaking who holds the upper hand between the highest representative of the Australian people and the non-elected, self appointed WEF in the direction Australia is meant to follow.

But the WEF’s plans are all hollow conspiracy theories apparently…..

This Is How The WEF Introduces The Prime Minister of Australia At Davos...

Are Those Credentials? Or Marching Orders? pic.twitter.com/NCWEm5aXhZ

— Spiro (@Spiro_Ghost) January 21, 2022

flollo wrote:

Jeez andy-mac, why are you done? So, are we all just accepting this nihilistic sentiment?. @DSDS I understand that you're frustrated but 'absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe'. Or the second to that I guess for Labor.

Really? I would give that attribute to a genocidal dictator. Luckily, we don't have anything like that around here.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated."

Jeez, that sounds a hell of a lot like post-modernism, but I digress.

I don't see the rejection of the two majors as nihilism, I see it as a progressive identification that they aren't adequately representing the electorate.

Encouraging voters to find alternatives (which they increasingly are in Australia) sounds like the opposite of nihilism.

Ok. So who or what do you have an issue with? Just Scomo/Albo, LNP/Labor, all public employees? There are around 250,000 employees in the Commonwealth Government. Are we saying that all of these are criminals working against the Australian public? Are any of these people doing a good job? Is anything worth praising or we are all destined to slavery? It's not clear to me, I'm under impression that you are generalising across the board which is not fair to people who are doing a good job.

AndyM wrote:

flollo wrote:

Jeez andy-mac, why are you done? So, are we all just accepting this nihilistic sentiment?. @DSDS I understand that you're frustrated but 'absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe'. Or the second to that I guess for Labor.

Really? I would give that attribute to a genocidal dictator. Luckily, we don't have anything like that around here.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated."

Jeez, that sounds a hell of a lot like post-modernism, but I digress.

I don't see the rejection of the two majors as nihilism, I see it as a progressive identification that they aren't adequately representing the electorate.

Encouraging voters to find alternatives (which they increasingly are in Australia) sounds like the opposite of nihilism.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about the nihilism adopted by @DSDS who for days is just commenting on how shit everything is.

Well it seems pretty obvious that the two majors are indeed shit.

Ossified and corrupted beyond redemption.

Nihilism? Hardly.

Pointing out that Coke and Pepsi are both identical rot-gut rubbish is not a declaration that you intend to go without liquid till you die. The days of finding political representation in the ALP/ LNP are over. Unfortunately they control our democratic flexibility to a certain extent. We need to overcome this hurdle. That’s the extent of it.

flollo wrote:

Jeez andy-mac, why are you done? So, are we all just accepting this nihilistic sentiment?. @DSDS I understand that you're frustrated but 'absolute worst pieces of shit in the know universe'. Or the second to that I guess for Labor.

Really? I would give that attribute to a genocidal dictator. Luckily, we don't have anything like that around here.

Just done here and on this topic, one last rant. I am glad that Morrison and the LNP are out of office, hopefully for a long time. I can relate to the anger/ frustration felt by many with the 2 party system. I hope The Albo govt does set out to improve the lifes on many ordinary Australians returning it to a more fair egalitarian place that I experienced growing up (may have the rose coloured glasses on), cancelling the Robodebt crap is a positive action. Might not seem much, but if you had a family member commit suicide due to this, or had to go through the stress, I am sure you are glad. I just hope that the people responsible are held to account for this, such as Brother Stewie and Scomo.
I am hopeful that Labor will get into gear and get a proper ICAC going, get a fairer tax system up and running, and start to fix the gas/ energy mess. I have always stated I think it's absurd how we have not followed a Norwegian style wealth fund with our natural resources. In reality they will probably not succeed in all areas, and I do think it may be time for them to start going harder against members of LNP re corruption, use parliament privileges to call them out etc hey Augus... So media have to talk about it.
They treated Labor as mongrels when Abbott came to power, so I reckon pay back should come, maybe the are abiding their time waiting for Robodebt RC and ICAC.
They should have started a RC into the media when it had high profile of KRudd and Malcolm calling it out. Murdoch will never be nice to Labor so they should go hard, law maybe just be an Australian citizen to own media organisation??
Anyway, the way the world seems to be going with Ukraine, China, and the economy, all this might be arguing about the best deck chair on the Titanic.
I am optimistic however that shit will get sorted out. We have lots of problems to face but so has every generation.
Peace.
Small in Bali today. :)

As much as i despise Labor and Albo, i still think LNP and even Labor are better than any alternative parties and id hate to say it but if you gave me the choice between swapping leaders or governments with the USA, Canada, UK, NZ, the only one id consider is the UK the rest would be even worse. (even you lefties must be losing some love for NZ pm now)

And then if you look at all the countries and governments around the world 195 countries, we are doing better than almost every one of them on a range of major issues.

Look at the major issues over the last 20+ years and we are doing pretty good.

1. Economy: almost 30 years without a recession and only technically broken by Covid which was a self induced recession caused by lockdowns we had to have, economy still in decent condition, employment at higher rates since 70s, yeah sure inflation is rising interest rates are rising but not many countries are escaping this.

2. Illegal immigration/securing of borders: While in many countries like USA and Europe its still a major issue, its not for us and as long as we maintain the systems in place it should stay this way.

3. Terrorism: It was a major issue worldwide after 9/11 and many countries around the world had attacks even NZ had the gunman shooting thing, while our government has foiled many attacks and closest we had was Lindt Cafe siege where sadly two innocent people died but lets be real it could have been much worse.

4. Covid: Yeah it sucked especially the restrictions on leaving the country and lock downs, but we dealt with it amongst the best in the world, infections, death rate, high vax rate, and its pretty much over for now or as over as it may ever be. (yeah i know people still die but generally limited to old and weak)

5. Energy security/crisis: Yeah our prices are going up even though Albo said they would go down, but its a another global issue, and just be thankful you dont live somewhere like Germany where they have really screwed themselves over closing Nuclear plants and relying on Russia for gas, things are so bad there is all kinds of restrictions on things like heating and they are even cranking up old coal powered fire stations.

6. Housing affordability : Its another world wide issue and doubt there is any country where housing is becoming more affordable, i know Indo prices are blowing up too, and it will always get worse as end of the day it basically comes down to supply and demand that Pizza isn't getting any bigger.

7. Gap between rich and poor: Another world wide issue that i expect is happening almost everywhere, its just the reality of life, success is never equal, the important thing is not so much the gap between rich and so called poor, its the average living standard, which we all know has improved greatly worldwide in the last 100 years.

Our government be it LNP or even Labor really aren't that bad, if they were so bad we wouldn't be so successful on these issues..