Tiger the Timber Surfcraft Master does one for Seeds
I’ve asked him to throw up some pics of his processes so hopefully he will.
No worries Seeds. I'm happy to show some of the process, if crew are interested.
It all starts with making a blank, or as I like to refer to it as core.its just a thickness flow/foil, hotwired from a slab of EPS.
Then draw up the planshape as shown in Seeds' pic. The core is then trimmed to allow for perimeter rails to be attached later, I've marked here where I'll be cutting inside the original rail line.
Rails removed then bottom contours are pre shaped into the core, and reinforcing of high density foam placed where fin system will be installed.
I'll keep them coming for those interested.
I’m a little bit interested.
That brown high density foam for fin boxes. What exactly is that? Anything everyday products that are made out of it?
yeah Tiges love this shit after all it is a surfing site ....gotta love a craftsman in action.!
Definitely.
Looking forward to the end result culminating in some shack time!
Piecing together the skin for the bottom of the board. Paulownia cedar combo, 3mm thick. Butt glued, then cut out.
This is the inside of the skin, so not the exposed good side. Ignore the darker panels of Paulownia, they'll end up a more uniform blonde.
As for Seeds' query about the high density foam. It's 20mm thick divinycell. It's generally used in the marine industry and many others. It's a PVC foam. It's good to use in 3mm as skins because it bends and forms really well and is super hard. I used to use 20mm to make the perimeter rails, but i feel it makes them too rigid. The 3mm has been used forever by the likes of FireWire etc.
Great work Tiger a lot of work in those skins guess you get some time back on the rails still a long process never thought of reinforcing the finbox area great idea.
Glad you're happy with it so far. It's having its first ride in the bag. Bottom skin is effectively pressed on, with contour matts and channel inserts to form the bottom contours.
I vacbag on a fully adjustable rocker table.
From what you mentioned to me there is glass either side of the timber. So at this stage you lay glass then resin then lay the timber on top? Then vacuum? How do you stop resin sticking to vac bag and what looks like some sort of frame? Is that cardboard?
At this stage I'm just vaccing the bottom skin on. So the core is just being pressed against the skin, against the rocker bed. Yes, a layer of 4oz and epoxy to act as the glue. There is nothing going on on top, so the blank is still square sided. Shade cloth is there to prevent airlocks, and allow the vac pressure to spread evenly over the whole surface.
Thanks guys. So this is what we've got out of the bag. Bottom skin on with all contours formed, which is a slight single to double concave feeding into the channels. The skin was split to allow it to fit the channels with inserts to push and form them. There is no "walls" on the channels yet, that happens later.
Now the blank is more rigid, and I fine tune the foil and deck roll. Keep in mind that an extra 3mm has to be allowed for the deck skin, and 20mm each side for the rails.
Really looking good! I was wondering how the channels would bend to the shape, the split explains it well. If using 4oz glass and epoxy as glue underneath the skin, do you manually apply the resin before it goes in the bag, or will the vaccuum bag infuse it all anyway?
Check out Grant Newby Surfboards on insta or his website. Does vacuum bagging paulownia as well. Fascinating to see how it is done.
I’ve couple of his wooden boards over the years & the feel is different and n a good way
Check out Grant Newby Surfboards on insta or his website. Does vacuum bagging paulownia as well. Fascinating to see how it is done.
I’ve couple of his wooden boards over the years & the feel is different and n a good way
Hey Tiges can the walls of the channels be done in the darker cedar to give a shadowing effect?
Yes they can. I prefer to do them in Paulownia so that it looks more continuous. But will go that way if you want.
Getting deck skin bagged on, you can see the importance of the shade cloth to make sure it's getting snugged down evenly and forming to the curves. Application of the deck skin locks the rocker curve in.
Yeah mate some of that lighter cedar be great. The shadows in your pics gave me the thought.
Now's the part where I try and talk you out of it. The beauty of the channel shadow is in the the taper that shows the gradual depth change. The channel walls are achieved by a 6mm groove routed then filled by a timber strip on edge. The curve in the bottom of the channel is then shaped into that. From directly front on the darker timber will just effectively appear like 6mm thick rods going up the board from the tail. I'm not sure, it could look great or it could look just ok. I'll leave it up to you to make the call.
This is an incredible thread! Thanks seeds and tiger. Loving the craftsmanship.
Well beyond my skills - I’m having fun making hand planes out of 12mm marine ply with the grommets. At the stage of helping them put their own design stencils on before sealing. Great summer project.
I’d love to have a crack at a wooden skinned board. Or I should just get tiger to do it!
Yes Etarip
I’m amazed at the work that goes into it.
So Tiger are you saying that the cedar would be visible not just on the vertical side of the channel but on top as well. As in it butts against the paulownia not tucks underneath.
Thanks etarip. That's right Seeds, the more I think about it the less visually appealing it is to me. There's already a lot going on down there, let the channels speak for themselves.
It's beautiful work tiger. Seeds is a lucky boy. Thanks for sharing the process, both of you
Not as tidy as yor process Tiger but I put the walls in 1st then slit the skin to suit.
Thanks everyone, glad you are enjoying the process.
Hey I Focus, there are many ways to skin the cat. Your way looks like it would require exacting precision, you're a braver man than I.
They're things of absolute functional beauty you are making Tiger.
Would love to own one to surf but also to display at home.
Thanks for sharing your process.
Have fun Seeds!
Thanks for the kind words. I consider them rideable art. Get just as much satisfaction in the artistic creative side as the the functional performance side. But first and foremost they have to stack up on the performance side, it's just a bonus if I can make them look interesting.
Channels have been tidied up, ready for some rails.
tiger wrote:
Thanks everyone, glad you are enjoying the process.
Hey I Focus, there are many ways to skin the cat. Your way looks like it would require exacting precision, you're a braver man than I.
Haha nah its works out OK but your method using the router looks far neater the bottom of your channel is sublime I often fill mine with a paulownia mix to get the curve
Yes that looks pretty shmick!!
I focus you got any finished to show? Are you using timber skins also?
seeds wrote:
Yes that looks pretty shmick!!
I focus you got any finished to show? Are you using timber skins also?
A pic of some of my boards a 9' 3" longboard down to 6'.0" twin only make them for myself with the wise old jungle saying ringing in my ears "he with the most surfboards wins"
I actually surf then all a couple of the earlier ones are getting revamped as my skills get better.
Similar process to Tiger vacuum the deck and bottom on (I do both at the same time) but my process / rails are old school also I don't have access to western red cedar without parting with body parts to pay for it so I will only do the odd black pin line where the skin meets the 1st rail band.
Takes me around 4 weeks to knock one out, I do everything by hand, a PU in comparison takes me around one to two days labour (a mate whose is a professional can hand shape and finish in 6 hours for a stock short board)
Tigers boards are next level those channels really are very good so is the outline its very hard to get the dimensions right as you shape the board twice 1st as an EPS blank then as a paulownia blank. On top of that it's subtle but paulownia isn't the same hardness over the board depending on grain etc rails can do your head in sometimes sending you crossed eyed chasing shadows as you roll them over.
I glass mine in 4oz using epoxy which is another story in itself.
Overall anyone can do it just cut and measure plenty of info on the net.
Don't talk yourself down i focus, you do some mighty fine work. I echo your sentiments about the labour intensiveness. It takes me something like 18 separate processes to get a board ready to glass, compared to taking me about 1.5hrs to do a handshape out of a regular blank.
This one's getting close. Just needs some kind of tail block and a general cleanup and it's ready for exterior glass. We went regular PU rails on this one, that will be sprayed before glassing. Seeds wants black, but I might make an executive decision and do a little variation on the theme.
Here's the little bit I cut off the tail to put a tail block on, to give you a cross section of the internals.
Sprayed and tail block added. Just got to route for fin plugs and it's ready for glass.
Liking the black rails. You said you use high density PVC foam on the rails Tiger? Have you ever tried cork or balsa?
Hey blackers. The rails on this one are just regular PU surfboard foam. I have kind of moved away from PVC foam for the rails as it was too dense and stiff. I've used cork, even EVA foam. I don't want to add too much more rigidity to the sandwich construction, so I steer away from the stiffer materials, particularly when the rails are going to be wrapped in glass as well. PU and XPS are working good for me although I have to beef up the glass schedule a bit in those areas.
I’ve bitten the bullet and ordered a board off Tiger. Bit of to and fro about outline, length, fins, bottom contours and tail shape and this is where we’re headed.
Pretty stoked and hoping it’s the catalyst to get me in the water more than I have been last couple of years.