Tiger the Timber Surfcraft Master does one for Seeds
tiger wrote:
Hey Udo, they look interesting. Looks like they've still got to be installed on the flat though, don't know how they would go sitting in the channel how I like the side fins to be.
For the front fins (FCS2) you might get away with 5 degree laying them in the channel would end up with 9 ish degrees for 4 channel, would 6 channel be steeper?
Simpleton here. Aren’t all fin boxs 0 degrees as in the insert cavity is zero. Doesn’t the degree of can’t come in the fin? Box in an angled channel then would throw the fin cant too far.
Shit I should have said please explain!!!
ps no fin cant remedied by angle of channel.
pps channel angle matches correct cant of normal fin
pps home made cant less fins?
ppps raving on and I know I still don’t understand the issue discussed above.
Hey Seeds. Futures boxes have a vertical slot with the cant built into the fin base. FCS have the cant built into the plug. Routing either in the channel would require a workaround as the install jig won't sit properly. Hence the ease of install with FCS 1, it's just holesaw on drill.
I focus the outside channel on 6 channel is steep, I'm thinking maybe 3deg sides might work.
Ah righto I never knew FCS had the cant built into the plug. And of course I didn’t consider the size of the install jig.
Glad I asked the question
tiger wrote:
Hey Seeds. Futures boxes have a vertical slot with the cant built into the fin base. FCS have the cant built into the plug. Routing either in the channel would require a workaround as the install jig won't sit properly. Hence the ease of install with FCS 1, it's just holesaw on drill.
I focus the outside channel on 6 channel is steep, I'm thinking maybe 3deg sides might work.
Through the 6 channel might be a steeper angle, could adjust the depth to adjust the angle I guess, given futures are a stronger box I would use them and run the fins (3 degrees sounds good) closest to what degree of cant you want.
That's of course if you can set the jig close enough, FCS1's makes life a lot easier I also have used triple plug boxes (FCS) don't know if they are still sold drill 3 holes to fit them.
Edit: https://surfblanksaustralia.com/products/fin-solutions-triple-plug out of stock
Bit of messing around but the futures would look sweet.
We're brainstorming, I love it! I've done a quick diagram, to scale-ish of what we're up against.
The dotted line is perpendicular to the channel floor. As you can see the desired fin can't is even less than that. This pretty much counts out any boxes with cant built into them (FCS2). Any straight slotted box/plugs would work as there is enough leeway. Futures could work. It would require custom made fins without can't made into base (easy but not readily available to most people). Just using FCS1 rear plugs all round is once again the far easiest solution.
Or be a lunatic and do glass ins?
That's right Udo, there's plenty of workarounds in regards to install. Particularly with timber veneered boards, you can clamp things down etc with no damage to the surface. The main difficulty is in working with an already canted surface. Not having to overly modify a system to get everything where it should go. There is compromises have to be made somewhere.
"There is compromises have to be made somewhere".
You seem to have a good compromise with the 4 channels Tiger.
Is it possible to use a levelled Futures box, and shave off the proud parts?
blackers wrote:
"There is compromises have to be made somewhere".
You seem to have a good compromise with the 4 channels Tiger.
Is it possible to use a levelled Futures box, and shave off the proud parts?
I have done that previously with FCS2's can be done TBH its a complete pain in the nuts, trying to get the whole thing to look flat then the other side always wants to sit low and in the end not great for the box.
Great drawing Tiger :-)
All good thoughts gentlemen. Udo if I'm planning on using 2 tab fins, I'd probably just use fcs1 plugs. Like any system they will be set into high density foam, so they are much stronger than a regular foam install. I've actually never had any real problems with fcs1, and I've put them into literally 1000's of boards.
Blackers a futures box has a little leeway that you can tilt it, but you don't want to remove too much of the flange. It would sit pretty good in the floor of the channel but the fin would have to remain in alignment to the slot. All stock futures compatible side fins have cant built into the base, hence why you'd need to custom make side fins with straight base. Something that is really easy to do, as the difficult part of making futures compatible fins is making an angles base. But making fins is not a very pleasant job.
The more I think about it, the more I just want to do fcs1.
udo wrote:
Glass ins...as in Brian Bates style
Or Glass ons ?
Ha yeah typo.
So we have a start, all the sixes, a 6'6" six channel.
First step is Hotwire a foil/thickness flow. Cut the outline 20mm in from each side, to allow for rails later. I'm going to use XPS on this one. All bottom contours are pre shaped into the core.
Piecing together a bottom skin, butt gluing all the pieces together. I lay glass panels on them to keep everything flat while the glue dries.
Next step will be put some high density foam in the areas that fin plugs/boxes will go. Then vac press the skin to the bottom.
Bottom skin is vac pressed on, all contours/channels/rocker have been vac formed.
Just going to do fcs1, the old adage of, if it aint broke don't fix it.
Very noice, how deep are the channels Tiger yours alway look so good?
Around 10mm. The deepest point on the outside channels is where they exit the rails. The deepest point in the centre channels is a bit further up, near the front of the rear fin.
Remember that outline is still 20mm narrower each side to allow for rails to be attached.
Vacced deck skin on today, next step is channel walls and attach the rails.
Critical to get the surface the rails are to be attached to square to the bottom of the board.
Channels have been tidied up, now attaching the rails on the vac table.
Wrapped in corrugated cardboard for the vac bag? What colour the rails this time Tiger?
That's shade cloth blackers. It's allows the vac pressure to travel evenly over the whole surface. In this case it's also pulling the rails in snug against the blank.
I've used XPS foam for rails on this one, so they are a light blue.
tiger wrote:
That's shade cloth blackers. It's allows the vac pressure to travel evenly over the whole surface. In this case it's also pulling the rails in snug against the blank.
I've used XPS foam for rails on this one, so they are a light blue.
Ah yes makes far more sense, thanks.
To answer Udo's question. I'm a bit scared to figure it out, but I'd conservatively estimate there to be 25-30 hrs of hands on work. Lots of "hurry up and wait", and keeping an eye on things when it's in the vac bag. I'll make an effort to keep better track of time on the next one.
tiger wrote:
To answer Udo's question. I'm a bit scared to figure it out, but I'd conservatively estimate there to be 25-30 hrs of hands on work. Lots of "hurry up and wait", and keeping an eye on things when it's in the vac bag. I'll make an effort to keep better track of time on the next one.
Wow that's pretty good I reckon I take 120 to 150 hours for a build, a mate who makes boards professionally (pu and epoxy vacuum bagged) just shakes his head :-).
That's just the hands on time. There's plenty of other time used checking on it when it's under vacuum, planning, making little bits and pieces. And probably things I've forgot to include. I'm definitely going to run a stopwatch over the next one.
seeds wrote:
It’s gunna look purty once that glass goes on.
Seeds. Hi mate.
Admiring your new board from afar. Looks tantalising.
I hope you have many a good surfs on it before it ends up on a wall.
Beautiful craftsmanship. All the best. AW
Unfortunately I haven’t got it yet. Long ago I had a week off work penciled in. This week. Surf gods turned off the easterly swell and started pushing hard south. Long drive to Tiger’s with zero options to get wet. Back to work when the east swell resumes next week. Luckily for me he’s up this way soon and will be delivering.
Mad if he doesn't I reckon Supa! Don't worry Seeds you're not missing anything down here. Bottom glassed.
Supafreak wrote:
@seeds , are you taking the new stick to indo ?
For sure. Still haven’t worked out when I’m going. A major issue has arisen at work that needs resolving before I can plan properly
Nice one Blackers. I haven’t got mine yet but Im already thinking about ordering another.
I’ve bitten the bullet and ordered a board off Tiger. Bit of to and fro about outline, length, fins, bottom contours and tail shape and this is where we’re headed.
Pretty stoked and hoping it’s the catalyst to get me in the water more than I have been last couple of years.