harrycoopr wrote:

basesix wrote:

I think you are simplifying the Goliath of No reasons that are out there, @indo.

I was just at a wine&tapas bar in Robe, a small tourist town, and two caucasian Aussie women (one proudly claimed Italian heritage) were describing the Voice to a Yorkshire couple they had just met. One went on about Austudy and Abstudy in the 90s and kept saying 'oh, they are WELL looked after'.. the other kept saying 'they burn their houses down, not all of them, not sure percentages, but we give them houses and they burn them down'. They went on and on and didn't address anything. Certainly not the constitution.

The Yorkies were trying to navigate the aboriginal-privilege stuff their new friends were spouting, by saying 'well.. the best person for the job, should get the job, for sure...'

That's what I'm saying... we're not all racist but.... we're not all aware of our racism but... we're definitely not racist but... we don't even know if we're racist but

And we’ll come up with any argument to say NO that isn’t racist on the face of it. Or deep down is that coming from that ingrained “base” racism that we aren’t even aware is guiding our attitudes. The ‘we are all equal’ one gets me. Haha. Only since the Voice was announced hey!

sypkan wrote:

geez this was interesting too

loved the little hardnut kuarna actress girl whose name escapes me...

hard as nails, and like an unruly schoolkid for patricia karvelas to control

made burney and friends most uncomfortable too

her direct questioning to peter malinaukas was most impressive

and fuck me if I couldn't but wholeheatedly agree with her about the digging up of 31 of her ancestors for the riverlea development north of adelaide

peter... fucking weazal words... the show must go on...

That was a very interesting Q&A

Hehe he was squirming.

yeh, cheers sypkan. can't stomach those shows atm, like during covid, I unplugged from it all, but that was good.

Supafreak wrote:

sypkan wrote:

geez this was interesting too

loved the little hardnut kuarna actress girl whose name escapes me...

hard as nails, and like an unruly schoolkid for patricia karvelas to control

made burney and friends most uncomfortable too

her direct questioning to peter malinaukas was most impressive

and fuck me if I couldn't but wholeheatedly agree with her about the digging up of 31 of her ancestors for the riverlea development north of adelaide

peter... fucking weazal words... the show must go on...

That was a very interesting Q&A

Something stinks about that Riverlea development. I really don’t understand how were they allowed to put a set of lights on the freeway. Surely the state should’ve requested an overpass/underpass to be built for such a development. The only set of lights between Adelaide and Port Wakefield. I’m pretty sure we’ll be looking at a taxpayer funded overpass in the near future. Really strange.

Here’s some explanation. I thought she was great anyway. Squirm mofo squirm after your shitty claims.
https://apple.news/AFc59-aj2QxarOYU6NGm5_A

sypkan wrote:

and speaking of uncomfortable...

https://twitter.com/FranMooMoo/status/1711316246103507142

I went to effort to watch the whole thing this was probably the highlight and Jacinta's finishing argument.

It was actually funny to see Jacinta and Lidia sitting there next to each other, in some ways in total agreement but in other ways polar opposites.

Jacinta has publicly challenged to debate both Linda & Albo both declined it's such a pity would be so entertaining i have no idea how Linda has that position she just seems so out of her depth.

To be fair to Albo though a debate about an Aboriginal issue's with an Aboriginal person like Jacinta wouldnt be fair, so he gets a free pass on this one.

I would like to see JP debate Dr Tracy Westerman

As a First Nations psychologist, allow me to unpick Price’s claim there are no lasting negative impacts of colonisation.
Despite Jacinta Nampijinpa Prices claims the conditions enabling colonialism don't simply 'disappear' by denying they continue to exist https://t.co/s5uFumy3h2

— Dr Tracy Westerman AM (@TracyWesterman) October 10, 2023

Im sure she would be up for it.

BTW. In relation to that topic this is interesting.

A resolve poll as part as voice polling asked the question

"Something stinks about that Riverlea development. I really don’t understand how were they allowed to put a set of lights on the freeway..."

totally!

does my head in everytime I drive through

all the works and time invested into to making that stretch flow... then the whole world stops for some shitty housing development with some seriously ugly out of place grandiose entrance...

something stinks!

and someone has a perth fetish

^^ Yeah very fishy eh. Makes no sense at all.

And flollo I didn't know indigenous were dug up there for the estate, that's disgraceful. Especially with how much land there is out that way.

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate
But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.
These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.
I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!
They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.
They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”
And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”
I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Reform wrote:

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate

But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.

These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.

I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!

They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.

They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”

And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”

I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Reform. YES, nice work. AW

Cheers Alfred, Happy to oblige!
Have a very nice and safe day to all!

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

AlfredWallace wrote:

Reform wrote:

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate

But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.

These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.

I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!

They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.

They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”

And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”

I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Reform. YES, nice work. AW

Interesting and thoughtful take Reform... in early anthropology people couldn't understand why blackfellas always said "yes" to a question when they obviously meant "no"... The yes was so that the person asking wouldn't feel let down or hurt by a no! Even if they knew it was a lie they didn't want to hurt yr feelings!!

AndyM wrote:

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

He's got a big arse Andy... he's pulled a helluva lot out of it

indo-dreaming wrote:

Im sure she would be up for it.

BTW. In relation to that topic this is interesting.

A resolve poll as part as voice polling asked the question

Like the average knucklehead knows about this
#boycottindo

Not so long ago the alp and the left would never have supported such an idea as the voice (discriminatory). They do now…

The voice feeds into the modern progressive left idea of racial guilt. Albanese and alp buy into this. Fortunately it seems a lot of ordinary Australians don’t (recent polls suggest strong support for no vote).

waveman wrote:

Not so long ago the alp and the left would never have supported such an idea as the voice (discriminatory). They do now…

The voice feeds into the modern progressive left idea of racial guilt. Albanese and alp buy into this. Fortunately it seems a lot of ordinary Australians don’t (recent polls suggest strong support for no vote).

Yr an idiot

AndyM wrote:

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

It's a figure quoted in books and been in articles and interviews etc, but no I cant find the source.

Trying to google something like that is impossible and admittedly when you google the topic you come up with all kinds of conflicting information and studies and stats.

I dont even know what year that stat comes from its probably even better now considering the huge increase in last census in Aboriginal population, that can only be explained by people identifying as Aboriginal.

BTW related to both aspects of mixed race people and idea of this divide is this below, if there is such a division, why are we partnering up together?

"The 2006 census found that 52% of Aboriginal men and 55% of Aboriginal women had non-Aboriginal partners,

Source: Mixed race couples - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/mixed-race-co…

BTW. as you might know im a big fan of mixed race couples/marriages even if i wasn't married to an Indonesian id be with some lady of colour, i think its the ultimate way of bringing people and cultures together.

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38

Indo= 24

Sameas=16

Supa=15

Jelly=12

Burleigh=7

Others ten or less post.

“It's a figure quoted in books ….”

You read books these days @info coz previously you’ve said you don’t, something to do with the tip of your finger getting sore.

Indo I don’t believe you.

@Guy

Im not a big book reader and often dont finish them, but will once in a while get a book from the Library often ordered in and i generally read a book every Indo trip, i havent read a book for a while though, its not my fingers that are the issue, its the fact i need reading glasses i noticed mates are all getting them now but im just having trouble accepting the ageing process.

@AndyM

That's fine, believe what you want.

"Given current mortality patterns, Indigenous males born in 2015–2017 could expect to live 71.6 years, and Indigenous females 75.6 years (ABS 2018)."

cf.

" In Australia, a boy born in 2019–2021 can expect to live to the age of 81.3 years and a girl would be expected to live to 85.4 years"

"On average, Indigenous Australians living in remote areas having higher rates of disease burden and lower life expectancy compared with those in non-remote areas. Key contributors to this include differences in educational and employment opportunities, in access to health services, in housing circumstances, and in other factors that support healthy behaviours (such as the availability and cost of fresh fruit and vegetables)."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-deaths/deaths-in-austra…

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-health/indigenous-health-and…

indo-dreaming wrote:

@Guy

Im not a big book reader and often dont finish them, but will once in a while get a book from Library often ordered in and i generally read a book every Indo trip, i havent read one for a while though, its not my fingers that are the issue, its the fact i need reading glasses i noticed mates are all getting them now but im just having trouble accepting the ageing process.

@AndyM

That's fine, believe what you want.

You're a gobshite.
Shit dribbler.

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

indo-dreaming wrote:

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38

Indo= 24

Sameas=16

Supa=15

Jelly=12

Burleigh=7

Others ten or less post.

well, here's a compliment @indo ^^best post you've ever made: phenomenologically driven primary research - not stanky, tribal, media-beat-up opinion, keep it up.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

It's a fact.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-12/lidia-thorpe-backs-indigenous-vo…

….. and another one goes through to the keeper.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

Seems the gritters here are the minority when it comes to the voice yet they have the loudest bark?
Maybe that's part of the problem.

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/T…

Voted YES today.
Good vibes to all.

View this post on Instagram

burleigh wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

He's using gritters again! It's just like on Mean Girls when Gretchen tries to make "fetch" happen.

udo wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyJnx4ChyQa/

Anthony Mundine has always fought for FNP. He's still fighting for them

Hiccups wrote:

burleigh wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

He's using gritters again! It's just like on Mean Girls when Gretchen tries to make "fetch" happen.

Hiccups you throw like a girl.

basesix wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38

Indo= 24

Sameas=16

Supa=15

Jelly=12

Burleigh=7

Others ten or less post.

well, here's a compliment @indo ^^best post you've ever made: phenomenologically driven primary research - not stanky, tribal, media-beat-up opinion, keep it up.

A lot of mine are just reminding people they're dikheads

….and that @Harry is a noble cause!

burleigh wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

That wasn't a persona insult, it was just pointing out the complete lack of credibility in Indo's argument :)

GuySmiley wrote:

….and that @Harry is a noble cause!

U betcha!! Someone's gotta tell them...

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

burleigh wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

IMHO constant pointless insults and personal abuse is just a sign they dont have anything of real substance to say or know they are wrong but just dont want to admit it

Ha ha yep i saw that with SR, Just ridiculous.

burleigh wrote:

Seems the gritters here are the minority when it comes to the voice yet they have the loudest bark?

Maybe that's part of the problem.

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/T…

Yep and the funny thing is most are 40+ many here 50 even 60 plus

If you look at the polls these people Yes voters in the over 50 age groups are a clear minority around 27% of voters in their age group

Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.

"Leading pollster declares there’s ‘no chance’ the Voice referendum will succeed

A leading pollster has declared the numbers are so bad in some states that Voice campaigners should “just give up” now, days out from voting."

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/leading-pollster-declares-the…

Supafreak wrote:

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

Yeah i do agree with this.

Thanks Supa.

"constant pointless insults "

Indo if you're going to make stuff up to suit your ideology, you're going to get called out.
Why should people give your absolute nonsense a free pass?
You've tried this on for years, people are sick of it.

Indo said

Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.

Really mate, is that all it means to you.... something to laugh about.

Hahaha, yeah Dutto we got one back on Albo, hey great stuff. We win, that's all that matters.

I'll wager Dutton & Co will be running around patting each other on the back.

What a miserable, pathetic attitude from you lot.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

Yeah i do agree with this.

So you agree then you’re not just the symptom but the root cause of most of the forum malarkey, I don’t know what to say apart from about fuckin time you developed some self awareness!!