Agreed GS, much appreciated

Stu - I have only commented today to people you have sent a post to me ( except where I congratulated Craig on his La Nina work ) or have abused or had something negative to say to me .

Others defend themselves with much greater vigour , swearing and abuse than I do and I am the ONLY one you tell to back off . Is this because you don't like my opinions ?

All other posts were facts or others opinions that I thought may be of interest .

Seeds - I said my mother was born in Holland .

No diff Dutchy. It runs in your genes and explains a lot

VERY happy my genes . Mum provided a very good seed seed .

Boomshanka

SG - Hilarious .

Hutchy,
Yes, but nothing to do with this thread...The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

SG - I mentioned my Dutch heritage in post responding to some normal abuse about having NFI about the racial abuse of White Wogs .

Happy to see your very funny video about my genes .

Levity , like a good surf , can break a cycle !

To my knowledge I’ve only ever worked with one person of Dutch heritage. He was a senior manager and at the time I was a pleb so while I had little to do with him personally his reputation preceded him everywhere he went. The way he expressed himself and acted to staff and clients was so bad he was universally disliked. One way he used to “impose” himself was to walk into a meeting with clients with his right hand down his pants adjusting himself before pulling it out and insisting people shake his hand. He went through secretaries who were always in tears at his poor treatment. I tell this story as I was in a heated meeting once where other junior managers confronted him with his poor behaviour, it was a very willing affair that went straight over his head with seemingly no understanding how his behaviour impacted on others His defence repeated time and time again while smirking ? “... but I’m only a simple Dutch social worker”

After the meeting it was open warfare. He used binoculars to spy on couples rooting in the high rise hotel across the road most days behind his closed office door. The hotel manager was contacted, given the sordid details along with the State Manager’s name and phone number. The hotel then hired a private investigator to photograph the manager spying through his binoculars and within a week he was sacked and the department had the biggest Friday night’s drink session that was talked about for years. This guy seriously hadn’t a clue how his exceeding poor behaviour and expression impacted poorly on his staff and clients.

Funny Hutchy that you and me both have Dutch heritage and we are the two token conservatives here, but the Dutch are generally thought of being quite progressive in many ways legalised prostitution, relaxed drug laws etc

What's up with that?

I think you’re father and son

Thanks GS :)

indo-dreaming wrote:

Funny Hutchy that you and me both have Dutch heritage and we are the two token conservatives here, but the Dutch are generally thought of being quite progressive in many ways legalised prostitution, relaxed drug laws etc

What's up with that?

Indo couldn't resist ......yes there is a progressive part of Dutch culture , but also a dark side called the Afrikaans/Boers.....which as you know was , wait for it ......was colonialization of South Africa, and still to this day Afrikaans of dutch descent are seen as the creators or mainstay of Apartheid .
So yeah it's pretty obvious you and Hutchy are cut from the same cloth, but Indo , you actually are very strong in your opinions because of your sources of Information.....
Just so you know a few people behind the scenes have contacted me and ask that I keep posting about Indigenous affairs , and what we are currently learning about "our" history , and the debunking of myths on people like Tom Wills/Batman etc.......so here's an interesting one from the Age...about how all the stories about indigenous issues etc have been told by whitemen, which of course is only one side of the story...
It's a very well written article about the Age newspapers coverage of indigenous affairs , how not so long ago , to put an article about indigenous issues on the fron page , meant low sales of the paper....to how now, there is a very strong climate in Australia in addressing our First peoples issues , by seeing History from their point of view.....very exciting times as their voice gets stronger and now the majority of Australians are open minded enough to re-educate themselves on Australia's history and what affects a revised history means for all of us!
Hutchy I am not going to answer you , as I don't believe you have anything to add here in the way of opinions ....
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-age-s-truth-indigenous-…

More like brothers in arms imo . No one is 20 years older than me and still surfs .

Brutus wrote - " Hutchy I am not going to answer you ,"

I don't care ! Etarip has already confirmed my memory is still ( sometimes ) working well .

As usual you resent a former colonial power actions . A lot of countries to resent Brutus . If I thought it may make a difference I would give many examples of how the Dutch welcomed the persecuted .

Constance B Gibson wrote:

Speaking of colonial powers, here's an investigation into our first lot here in Oz, the British:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/17/slaughter-in-indonesia-br…

yep I think the last paragraph explains it well..."According to Prof Scott Lucas of the University of Birmingham, the declassified documents show that: “Britain was prepared to engage in dirty deeds which ran contrary to its purported values.” They reveal, he says, “how important black propaganda was to give the illusion that Britain could wield global power – even if many people might be killed for that illusion”.
100,000 + people killed in the name of the Colonial Empire.....

Interested in anyone's opinion on which country would have been a better option to colonise Australia ?

Choice is from Spain , Dutch , Portugues , Belgium , Chinese , Japanese , Americans , French , Germans and probably another country I have failed to name .

seeds wrote:

I think you’re father and son

Ha ha i was actually going to make a similar joke myself.

@ Brutus

To be honest for now i really don't have much to add to this conversation it feels like it's run its course and just running around in circles or turning into back and forth niggles.

The conversation has run its natural course.....until now. That's why this thread was started.. This conversation is only just starting. And ots gonna be raw and bring up some stark realities of where we fit in. Embrace the fear, embrace the darkness. No way forward without it. Anyone read the 400 pages yet. Its sll there.
Sorry, I'm not here. Apologies.

:-D Cheers Constance. Legend.

Hutchy 19 wrote:

More like brothers in arms imo . No one is 20 years older than me and still surfs .

Brutus wrote - " Hutchy I am not going to answer you ,"

I don't care ! Etarip has already confirmed my memory is still ( sometimes ) working well .

What the hell are you talking about?

Etarip . Midnight Oils's song is relevant for your comment - Short Memory .

"I’m pretty sure it was primarily a response to Chinese Immigration on the goldfields in the late 19th century. Nothing to do with aboriginal peoples. "

Yeah, I thought that was what you were referring to. You might want to get your memory checked.
You said it was to do with: “A reaction to Chinese land practices in the NT”

I said I didn’t think it had anything to do with that. But you just keep on keeping on if that floats your boat.

bluediamond wrote:

The conversation has run its natural course.....until now. That's why this thread was started.. This conversation is only just starting. And ots gonna be raw and bring up some stark realities of where we fit in. Embrace the fear, embrace the darkness. No way forward without it. Anyone read the 400 pages yet. Its sll there.

Sorry, I'm not here. Apologies.

Im sorry i dont agree, i think things will just run the same course and little will change, it will just be more of the same for a very long time maybe forever.

It's not politically correct to dig deeper and its a much harder route to take, change will only ever happen around almost all indigenous issues if the blame game stops and personal ownership is taken and the rose coloured glasses are taken off. (instead of being painted with more rose)

It's not unique to this issue it's the same for any issue for a group or individual, if you aren't honest with yourself and the issue and own it and take personal responsibility, it's almost impossible to move forward and deal with the problems, others can offer help and help to a degree but in almost all cases change needs to come from within.

Ind - I agree 100% with your post !

Etarip - I read a detailed account on what happened in the NT . It was a long time ago .

Your nastiness is so common on this thread and site .

Seems that we were both a bit off the mark .

https://www.britannica.com/

The Australian colonies had passed restrictive legislation as early as the 1860s. This was directed specifically at Chinese immigrants, but later a popular cry was raised against the increasingly numerous Japanese—especially after Japan’s victory over China in the 1894–95 Sino-Japanese War—and against South Asians and Kanakas (South Pacific islanders) as well. Fear of military invasion by Japan, the threat to the standard of living that was thought to be presented by the cheap but efficient Asian labourers, and white racism were the principal factors behind the White Australia movement.

No worries Hutch. Appreciate your validation of what I posted: “ I’m pretty sure it was primarily a response to Chinese Immigration on the goldfields in the late 19th century. Nothing to do with aboriginal peoples. They had other discriminatory laws for that, and the official view was that they were dying out anyway.” The comment about your memory was a response to your abstract reference to me.

Ref nastiness; I’m working on it. Can you point out where my ‘nastiness is so common’? I’d really appreciate it.

indo-dreaming wrote:

@ Brutus

To be honest for now i really don't have much to add to this conversation it feels like it's run its course and just running around in circles or turning into back and forth niggles.

I get it Indo , for you it is going around in circles , but the reason I post here is as I am still learning about Australia's History . I find it so interesting to uncover more and more of our real history , debunking a lot of what was considered fact......

so finding out about the past is also fraught with discovery's that challenge our notion of who we are as an Australian , who we were(White Australia Policy) and what will our Children inherit as a National identity ........

I think in the last couple of years there has been an enormous effort to revisit our past history , find the truth ( Will be decades ) and rebuild the National Identity as Cosmopolitan Country with an amazing First peoples culture as our foundation....there is no other way....unless people like you and Hutchy actually take onboard our revised History and admit that Colonialism was a dark period in Human history ......

The only way to become part of the solution to Australia's Identity moving forward is be part of the treaty process and at least read what is being discovered....?

Indo I just read this from you "It's not politically correct to dig deeper and its a much harder route to take, change will only ever happen around almost all indigenous issues if the blame game stops and personal ownership is taken and the rose coloured glasses are taken off. (instead of being painted with more rose)."

I think this statement from you sums up what the current problem in Australia is towards reconciliation/treaty and embracing our Indigenous culture .

It's not politically correct to dig deeper as it's hard....this is just a sad statement but very representative of people who do not want to face the reality of the past , and how it has affected people today.......there is no blame only understanding.....but Indo sounds like you have a guilt problem with colonial times and the actions that ensued!

+1 to that post Brutus. Brilliant.

Great stuff brutus, such a positive view of our future!

I think we need to encourage more aboriginal people into parliament as the ones that are there are doing well. They will get a lot of votes. I think this will bring a better understanding of first people into our Govt. and get better balanced and functional results. I disagree about a treaty. I think it will only cause division and an “us and them” mentality. We are a different world now and Australia a far different place…we have to operate as one not two. A treaty a long time ago when far less people were here would have been really good, but there was an arrogant and elitist mentality from the newcomers. And now, we have to strengthen the ever slowly improving systems that are happening to help aboriginal people find the new and prosperous life they deserve without creating two countries in one. Everyone has to move on, but do it thoughtfully. Just my opinion…may not be correct.

Brutus - unfortunately you spoil a good post with incorrect assumptions .

".unless people like you and Hutchy actually take onboard our revised History and admit that Colonialism was a dark period in Human history ......"

Speaking for myself I am aware of the initial problems of colonization of a country . Red Indians and Aztec's like many people had a terrible time . I studied the " Clash of Economic Systems " at Uni .

"but Indo sounds like you have a guilt problem with colonial times and the actions that ensued! "

It is comments like the above and your insulting assumptions that make me feel that the thread DOES keeps going around in circles .

Everything I say , any view I promote are automatically assumed to be politically incorrect and I get abuse .

You guys make it seem that my concerns and offers for help and understanding are definitely not worthy of your cause and not needed .

Good luck getting the mainstream of Australia to support your cause as you will surely need it .

"Red Indians and Aztec's". should be "Aztecs".

"DOES keeps going around in circles ." should be "keep"

"any view I promote are automatically". should be "is"

Shall I go on?

"Good luck getting the mainstream of Australia to support your cause as you will surely need it ."

Mainstream Australia has and is showing it's support for reconciliation , as I said before ...it's not my cause , it's "our Cause".....which you and Indo choose not to be part of....relics of a bygone era and a small getting smaller minority.

As I read more , I will post more ,just so we can all feel great about being part of the solution.....and watch as Australia becomes .....???????

brutus wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

@ Brutus

To be honest for now i really don't have much to add to this conversation it feels like it's run its course and just running around in circles or turning into back and forth niggles.

I get it Indo , for you it is going around in circles , but the reason I post here is as I am still learning about Australia's History . I find it so interesting to uncover more and more of our real history , debunking a lot of what was considered fact......

so finding out about the past is also fraught with discovery's that challenge our notion of who we are as an Australian , who we were(White Australia Policy) and what will our Children inherit as a National identity ........

I think in the last couple of years there has been an enormous effort to revisit our past history , find the truth ( Will be decades ) and rebuild the National Identity as Cosmopolitan Country with an amazing First peoples culture as our foundation....there is no other way....unless people like you and Hutchy actually take onboard our revised History and admit that Colonialism was a dark period in Human history ......

The only way to become part of the solution to Australia's Identity moving forward is be part of the treaty process and at least read what is being discovered....?

Indo I just read this from you "It's not politically correct to dig deeper and its a much harder route to take, change will only ever happen around almost all indigenous issues if the blame game stops and personal ownership is taken and the rose coloured glasses are taken off. (instead of being painted with more rose)."

I think this statement from you sums up what the current problem in Australia is towards reconciliation/treaty and embracing our Indigenous culture .

It's not politically correct to dig deeper as it's hard....this is just a sad statement but very representative of people who do not want to face the reality of the past , and how it has affected people today.......there is no blame only understanding.....but Indo sounds like you have a guilt problem with colonial times and the actions that ensued!

Like I said we are just going around in circles i said that because you tagged me in a post, but let's do it anyway, i get that the history is of this interest you and part of your identity.

The problem i feel with you is you and many others though is you seem interested in only one aspect of the history, and not the whole picture, it's a romanticised type of history and also a kind of vindictive one, especially when you believe all aboriginal problems are the result of colonisation, when its clear there is deeper cultural issues which is no surprise when you thrust a people and culture that was isolated for so long into a very different world.

As to who we are as Australians or Australia identity, i think everyone has a very different view on this i dont think there is any right or wrong or one set identity and obviously an indigenous person is going to have a very different view to say a Chinese Australian or Australian with english ancestry or someone like my wife with Indonesian ancestry, and within every group there is going to be people that are interested in their own history and others history or Australian history or indigenous history and people who are not, one of my best mates has indigenous ancestry, but it means pretty much nothing to him, in exactly the same way my Dutch and English ancestry means pretty much nothing to me.

I think for many Australians the Aboriginal aspect is really only one aspect of a much larger identity of what Australia is and most see the Aboriginal aspect as a seperate culture/identity because unless you are Aboriginal its not your culture or identity in the same way if you aren't an Italian Aussie, you see their culture as a different Australian culture/identity, that said at the same time we are all Australians, it like a Pizza with lots of different slices, exhorting slice slightly different but all pieces belong to the same pizza.

In regard to reconciliation from a non indigenous perspective from a government and majority of Australians point of view our relations are friendly and we do what we can to help, we spend millions on trying to help with indigenous issues, we recognise their history as first people pretty much every where from school assemblies to AFL grand finals etc.

In regard to a treaty, it's something that i think is pretty much pointless and wont help Aboriginal people or issues one little bit, but I'm not opposed to it, id much rather see it ticked off the list rather than hear people keep going on about it thinking things aren't changing because it hasn't been implemented, that said when it happens and nothing changes I'm not going to sit back and go, see nothing has changed either, i don't think thats good form..

In regard to feeling any guilt about colonial times, why on earth would i feel any guilt about things others did long ago that had zero to do with me?

My family only arrived in Australia in the 60s, and i sure dont feel guilt because my mother was born in England. (lived in Africa and Fiji from a toddler to late teens)

The whole concept is ridiculous I don't think anyone should feel any guilt for anything they didn't do, or guilty for sharing the same ethnicity as others that might have not done not so good things in the past, if that was the case every person on earth would be walking around feeling guilty for all kinds of things their ancestors did as every ethnic group on earth has done things that would now not be viewed in a positive light.

Brutus - as I said - I wanted it to be part of " our cause " .

Due to the negativity of you and others , you have made it clear you don't want me part of it . I am excluded due to your assumptions on what I feel and believe in . So I am considered by YOU to not be worthy of your cause .

I do , I believe , have mainstream views and wanted to show my support for our First Nations .

You refuse to accept it . As has been mentioned above your resentments regarding the past won't let you .

As I have also said , any referendum or treaty that does not spell out clearly the detail will get a no from the mainstream . There has been only one solution ( healing centres ) that I have seen ( I have repeatedly asked you for more ) that is realistic and could make a difference . Yes changing a few place names but nothing else .All the First Nations will unfortunately receive will be token crumbs .

Like a "Sorry " that seems to have made little real difference to the plight of our First Nations .

The circle keeps on turning unfortunately ! .

Some get it and can see that indigenous culture is a huge asset to the nation and is a critical part of our national identity as seen from.other countries. Others just keep looking back and restrict their vision to more of the same.

You are right BB - I "can see that indigenous culture is a huge asset to the nation and is a critical part of our national identity " .

But I have also seen , tragically , the official stats on crime , incarceration ( 13 times the national average ) , sexual abuse , violence etc percentages that were so bad I was unable ( maybe also unwilling ) to commit to memory .

A National shame that I desperately want to remove as quickly as possible whatever the cost !

It is you and others who refuse to accept ( we can still learn about ) the past and move with positive conviction to the future who condemn our First Nations to "restrict their vision to more of the same."

A tragedy !!!!

I'm just curious Hutchy, and it's a genuine question. Not sure if you've mentioned it before as I don't have the time nor the inclination to keep up with all these threads , but how much experience do you actually have with the indigenous crew.?
All I hear from you is stats. I doubt you'd last five minutes in a town full of blackfellas . You really need to do some field research .Do you really think your ranting on SN is going to help anything?
If you were coming from a place of real experience I would give more weight to your words on this.
Stick to what you know bro , this ain't it.

Deja vu - CSNY

One, two, three, four
If I had ever been here before
I would probably know just what to do, don't you?
If I had ever been here before on another time around the wheel
I would probably know just how to deal with all of you
And I feel like I've been here before
Feel like I've been here before
And you know it makes me wonder
What's going on under the ground, hmm
Do you know? Don't you wonder
What's going on down under you?
We have all been here before, we have all been here before
We have all been here before, we have all been here before
We have all been here before, we have all been here before

Sadly, we have all been here before, the same dogged intransigence, the same narrow view, the same cherry picked (CP) information sources and arguments: that Aboriginals living on isolated country isn't viable, referencing Aboriginal spokespeople with polar opposite views to what 99.99% of community elders are saying; that Adam Goodes was wrong to call out the young women in the crowd; that the treaty, the Uluru Statement and constitutional recognition are all token gestures that will fail. Also perhaps the nadir in any SN forum discussion: Andrew Bolt's 18c legal case where people identifying as Aboriginal was questioned with that coffee/milk comment. It's all there in the SN archives.

Aboriginals living on isolated country isn't viable= without government hand out's it not, levels of poverty would fall even lower, there will never be the jobs there or never viable to have all the facilities and infrastructure to deal with the education and health issues, that is just fact.

Sure you could argue they have the right to go back to living a traditional lifestyle but that's not the situation, they havent rejected electricity and money or many western things.

Referencing Aboriginal spokespeople with polar opposite views to what 99.99% of community elders are saying= so why aren't these 99.999% community elders fixing all the problems in their communities?

Its sure not a lack of money, that shouldn't even be needed to make change, and the old argument that so and so isn't listening to the elders is BS, many programs etc are run or overseen by indgenous people

How long do you want to wait until you go, okay the current approach is clearly not working, maybe we need to actually listen to the minority view and take another approach??

That Adam Goodes was wrong to call out the young women in the crowd= purely a matter of opinion.

That the treaty, the Uluru Statement and constitutional recognition are all token gestures that will fail= hopefully they will both happen, and we will then have evidence that they achieve little to nothing, if im wrong and they magically solve or even moderately improve all the problems indigenous people have, then great i will humbly accept i was wrong but also hope you do the same when little to nothing is changed around the real issues.

Andrew Bolt's 18c legal case where people identifying as Aboriginal was questioned with that coffee/milk comment= One of the women who sued AB now actually has gone 360 and said she was wrong and AB was right.

BTW. the phrase i used is has also been used by SBS, an Aboriginal comedian & a facebook get up post, my original post was saying and dont say (insert coffee milk comment) explaining why the comment is not correct.

Tubes - my first hand experiences with Aboriginal people is extremely limited . Like most Australians and probably like most who comment on this thread .

Limited to second hand feedback . Like a close friend ( teacher ) and his wife ( midwife ) who wanted to do some "field research " and planned to work and help in an Aboriginal community for 5 years . They left after 2 years due to feeling unwelcome and unwanted .

Limited to my reading and watching TV to learn more . Hence the official stats which you seem to think are not relevant .

My views are then RANTS . I get constant aduse . I have a White Australia mentality . I am a Red Neck .

You say I really need to do "field research " before my views will be considered . You then say I won't last 5 minutes in and Aboriginal community . I also wonder how my youngest daughter would be treated in an ALL Aboriginal school . She also would probably only last 5 minutes and she is as left as you can get .

I also see that you all have treated EVERY other person who like me who wants to help and learn more .

Smiley -"Sadly, we have all been here before, the same dogged intransigence, the same narrow view, the same cherry picked (CP) information sources and arguments:"

You view my views as unworthy . You want me to fuck off .

If your experience with aboriginal people is limited you should stop commenting on this thread hutch.

Indo, as I have already said we have different opinions , as we both have had very different life experiences .........so I am going to give you a couple of stories about why we cannot stop revisiting History, correcting history so we have a better understanding of the past and the cause and affect that is being experienced today..
Firstly your statement, "The problem i feel with you is you and many others though is you seem interested in only one aspect of the history, and not the whole picture, it's a romanticised type of history and also a kind of vindictive one, especially when you believe all aboriginal problems are the result of colonisation, when its clear there is deeper cultural issues which is no surprise when you thrust a people and culture that was isolated for so long into a very different world."
Ha , the one aspect of history ..you are right and that's truth !

As we are learning more and more everyday about our past...our history is also being rewritten as more and more evidence comes to light that what was our history is just not true . This is where I see more and more stories /facts being uncovered which show us colonialism had an enormous negative affect on the First Nations peoples past and present .
As we try and understand these new facts and correct history (eg Batman and Wills ) we get a better understanding of the negative affects on a pre-existing culture that has been inexistence longer than any other on the planet.
We now enjoy the incredible talents of our First culture...the painting / art/ dancing/dreamtime storytime...we all are starting to appreciate the positives of our First Culture.
To dismiss this as romanticized and vindictive and not accept it ,because colonialization says , they have an old irrelevant culture which does not fit into the new world that the colonialists brought to Australia , who did not recognize Australia's Aborigines as human....now there's the start of Invasion day/occupation and cultural genocide ...White Australia Policy/Stolen Generation ...all in my lifetime.......where I have first hand knowledge of the systemic racism and the fight for recognition of the oldest living culture on the planet...
I will keep answering your email , bit by bit as I have a huge work day today....

Optimist - Why waste your time telling me what I already have said ? I just said I know you all think I am unworthy of commenting and my opinions are worthless .

I will do whatever I want .

Brutus - does knowing more about Batman etc help our First Nation people ? Do they personally feel better knowing more detail ? Does it make a big difference to THEM ? If so , why ?

If my father abused my mother , and I knew it, hearing more detail of other times of abuse would make me feel worse .

Secondly ,"I think for many Australians the Aboriginal aspect is really only one aspect of a much larger identity of what Australia is and most see the Aboriginal aspect as a seperate culture/identity because unless you are Aboriginal its not your culture or identity in the same way if you aren't an Italian Aussie, you see their culture as a different Australian culture/identity, that said at the same time we are all Australians, it like a Pizza with lots of different slices, exhorting slice slightly different but all pieces belong to the same pizza."

I disagree totally with your assertion that Australia is like pizza and will remain so!

Presently we are like a Pizza, and that's a problem in thinking that Australia will stay fragmented along ethnic lines .
fast forward a 100 years when we have 5th- 10th generation Australian /Asians/Europeans etc will all be integrated with Australia's first culture...as a foundation, as it's the oldest culture so it is our foundation......in the 60's and 70's Italian/Greek were targeted as Wogs and Dagos....80's and 80's it was the yellow peril , Vietnamese/Chinese .....then we had the Middle Eastern Terrorists...muslims and Lebbos etc.......all of this racist treatment of "other" ethnic groups has now been dissipated with the new generations integrating themselves into a new cosmopolitan Australia...your vision of Australia being divided along ethnic lines , will not happen as our kids and Grandkids are learning right now about the divisiveness within society....they are more educated on Global affairs and can use the truth of the past to keep building towards Better unified Australia...

Indo now we get to the interesting part ....which I completely understand as I spent a shit load of time in Germany/Bochum ( University area ) in the 80's doing trade shows , having dinners with up to 30-40 people....I loved shit stirring and would always ask after maincourse when everybody was pretty pissed and loose...and would ask how do you view Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.....this would blow things up , as there was always 2 schools of thought.....

1) We accept responsibility for the Holocaust , it was an aberration of our culture....goes back to the Teutonic knights and the idea of a superior race....so we accept and own the past , and will pay restitution and be part of the annual Holocaust day in Israel........
A Bit like Aussies do ,"lest we not forget" Anzac day Gallipoli.....

2) the other side of the argument was , it has nothing to do with us , it was our parents /Grandparents.....we take no responsibility , it was not us.....so nothing was learnt and the seeds for ne0-nazis was still alive and well.....

So when you say ," In regard to feeling any guilt about colonial times, why on earth would i feel any guilt about things others did long ago that had zero to do with me?

My family only arrived in Australia in the 60s, and i sure dont feel guilt because my mother was born in England. (lived in Africa and Fiji from a toddler to late teens)

The whole concept is ridiculous I don't think anyone should feel any guilt for anything they didn't do, or guilty for sharing the same ethnicity as others that might have not done not so good things in the past, if that was the case every person on earth would be walking around feeling guilty for all kinds of things their ancestors did as every ethnic group on earth has done things that would now not be viewed in a positive light."

the guilt is quickly absolved when you own the past actions , and learn from them....and if you don't , well you become part of the problem in that you are doomed to continue making the same mistakes over and over, as Australia has been doing for the last 200 years or so.....

That's why Treaty is so important as truth is being told from a blackfellas perspective and not a white fellas interpretation , which is where we are now debunking a lot of so called facts that alienate us from each other....

Brutus - ".I loved shit stirring and would always ask after maincourse when everybody was pretty pissed and loose...and would ask how do you view Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.....this would blow things up , as there was always 2 schools of thought....."

What a nice way to make friends and influence people .

Have you changed ?

regarding owning responsibility for past injustices, (it was in the original post)
"As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians."
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University

I used to party in Sydney with two German girls who were on holidays here being nannies. I asked them if they are proud of being German and they both said "no! what do you think?" like two world wars was something to be ashamed of when they were'nt even born yet...anyway ive hung out with a lot of Germans and they all seem ashamed of those points.

On one trip to indo, an Indonesian friend asked me where my name comes from i said the Netherlands and he said "so you want to take over and think you are king" or something like that...fucked if im going to be ashamed of having dutch heritage!

indo.."That Adam Goodes was wrong to call out the young women in the crowd= purely a matter of opinion."

Yep young woman had very bad parenting , and with her mother standing next to her , the mother was also guilty....he called out the racism that he heard , which in todays world the young woman and her mother would be removed from the ground and even perhaps banned.... , ah times have changed for the better ...but Adams treatment by the crowds is and was a humiliating/embarrassing moment for all Australians and we lost one of our greatest players to the game....well done?
Ask Taylor Walker what happens now when unacceptable racial insults are hurled at Players.?