I.B i’m kind of with you, but I’m kind of not.
I think the amount of thought policing is a concern but I don’t see how the voice is a move in any way, towards communism or totalitarianism.

AlfredWallace wrote:

flollo wrote:

AlfredWallace wrote:

flollo wrote:

Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

Follo. I didn’t know that Communists were an actual fighting/military organisation. Really???. . Please enlighten me.

What types of arsenals did they have ? Gabberflasted.AW

That’s a strange question? The examples are endless. Is Khmer Rouge not enough?

Follo,Hi. How is it a strange question ? Your opinion, not mine.

I think you need to look up the definition ‘communism’, last time I checked, it stated nothing about war/fighting or the possession of armaments of any kind. AW.

Neither did nationalism. Pointless discussion.

Khymer Rouge, CCP, Germanys National Socialists, Italys National Fascist party, Pinochet and a myriad of fascist and communist Central and South American dictators, quasi-theocracies throughout the world ,there are plenty more...all authoritarian, all totalitarian.

The line between fascism, theocracy, communism is so wafer thin as to be barely discernible, extremism sucks, be thankful we live in a robust democracy.

And if you're worried about the creep of the last 5 years, go back and re-visit our anti-terrorism laws

AndyM wrote:

I.B i’m kind of with you, but I’m kind of not.

I think the amount of thought policing is a concern but I don’t see how the voice is a move in any way, towards communism or totalitarianism.

There is no rational link.

But if you can get people to think there is, then you can also get them frightened in a classic McCarthyism manner.

Same goes for Fifteen Minute Cities. Idiocy raining down from above. Imagine the town planners whose lives work it is to make other people's lives easier. To increase the 'livability' of a city, the capacity to move around, access shopping, schools, and business hubs without sitting in traffic for two hours. Decentralisation away from a central CBD is that goal, has been since the advent of the 'supercity', and the movement was given a name: the Fifteen Minute City.

Go town planners!

Now imagine the confusion, horror, and outrage of those same people as they get accused of being part of a new demonic scheme. Their noble initiatives a new front for the culture warriors.

If anyone thinks Australia will fall for COVID lockups again - get shafted into their Fifteen Minute zone - you live in a different society than I do. Short of some ebola, rabies, hantavirus mash up, people will pick up pitchforks before following martial law.

COVID lockups weren't a precedent, they weren't even subterfuge, they were a blunt instrument to a chaotic time (and capitalised on by various orgs because we live in a capitalist world). You people give far too much credence to the organisational skills of humans. No-one is in the driving seat; we're all making it up as we go.

Except for GSCO: Every step of the way he's defended China, and that's his prerogative, but to defend a real communist country while accusing our very free one of the same is red-level hypocrisy. The Party leaders would be proud.

overthefalls wrote:

Prepare yourself for more pearl-clutching over the next six weeks. Fear of reds under the beds gave me a good laugh this morning, but then I heard someone say that we'll end up paying rent to the Aborigines if the yes vote gets up. Strange times indeed.

Look lets be real this is unlikely to ever happen.

But it's not a conspiracy theory that people make up, it is a want of many involved in the voice/USFTH people like Thomas Mayo(key player in the voice) are on record of saying similar things in videos etc

Its also mentioned in the UFTH minutes meetings notes not just once or twice but at various meeting locations, hence even made it into the full document of the Uluru statement of the heart

On Page 19

Id expect this (and other aspects) is one of the main reasons why Albo and co were so keen to distance themselves from the full UFTH document even saying he hasnt read it, which of course he had.

Yes this is treaty not voice, but it all one package, Voice is just the first step, again this is something those involved say and all documents make very clear, when your voting for voice, your really voting for the full UFTH package.

https://www.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi-log/foi-2223-016.pdf

PDF link might not work, but easy to google NIAA Gov website official document

AlfredWallace wrote:

flollo wrote:

AlfredWallace wrote:

flollo wrote:

Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

Follo. I didn’t know that Communists were an actual fighting/military organisation. Really???. . Please enlighten me.

What types of arsenals did they have ? Gabberflasted.AW

That’s a strange question? The examples are endless. Is Khmer Rouge not enough?

Follo,Hi. How is it a strange question ? Your opinion, not mine.

I think you need to look up the definition ‘communism’, last time I checked, it stated nothing about war/fighting or the possession of armaments of any kind. AW.

Lenin interpreted that Marx's writings would not come to pass via the proles alone, so they needed a 'vanguard group'. And the rest was pretty bloody.

And Stalin was a writer of socialist newsletters in Brooklyn, New York of all places! Who would have believed that such a monstrous run of death could come from someone simply writing to influence opinion!

That's more as an informational, I'm trying to stay out of this debate, whatever happens with the vote happens. Have heard much from both sides, how to filter what could be the reality?

Australia's natural resources should be the common heritage of all of us. We should all share the benefit of their exploitation. Yet they are controlled and their benefits flow into the hands of few, many of whom are not Australian by birth or naturalisation, do not reside here and do not share the benefits here.
If the Voice was part of a redistribution of the wealth generated by the robber barons and multinational corporations that exploit our common heritage then I would welcome it.
However it is not the aim and will not be the outcome of a Yes vote. It is not part of some new communist manifesto set to sweep the nation and I don't care how many opinion pieces can be referenced saying it is. Simply not going to happen and ignores the reality of modern Australia.
People can advocate for a fairer system, including FNP, and good on them for doing so because the current one favours only the already wealthy. Look at Twiggy's court battle to deny the Yindjibarndi their royalties under WA native title law.
This country would benefit from a good dose of Marxist revolt. Let's start with Gina Rinehart and redistribute her wealth, bitch won't even share it with her own children.

If we want to be equally vapid we could look at the true fascists (self-identifying "national socialists") who support the No vote. Extremes at both ends can be ignored as they are unrepresentative in the truest meaning of the word, irrespective of the amount of white noise they make.

The call for the voice came from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, it was a consensus statement made by a large, representative group. It does not reflect the views of all First Nations people but does represent the agreement of a majority of representatives. It is not some "woke communist plot". To call it anything other than what it is, a voice for First Nations people, is disingenuous. It will be up to the government of the day to decide how much they "listen" to the Voice. The referendum gives us all the opportunity to vote on this, the "commies' and "fascists" and everyone in between. Vote as you wish, but dont resort to misinformation and scaremongering.

Well we did try a mining super profits tax to try and distribute some of that wealth. First iteration didn't make the grade so heavily watered down to get it implemented then completely abolished. That's what you call a Voice to parliament

As far as filtering out the arguments from both sides VJ, I'd take the opinion of someone who laments the loss of Tony Abbott as PM with a grain of salt

View this post on Instagram

IF NOT NOW
It’s a splinter in the mind, a whisper in the heart
A feeling something’s missing, some crucial little part
It’s business that’s unfinished, a reckoning that’s due
If not now, then when? If not us, then who?
It’s a simple proposition to join the new and old
A chance to make our country larger in its soul
It’s an invitation offered to set our course anew
If not now, then when? If not us, then who?
How long can we keep walking with this stone in our shoe?
If not now, then when? If not us, then who?
We may never get another chance like this again
If not us, then who? If not now, then when
Too many falling far behind, shut out of the deal
If you called and no-one heard you, imagine how you’d feel
This land was never given, it was taken and then sold
But its ancient songs and stories are a gift greater than gold
The status quo is busted, let’s stop kicking that old can
If not us, then who? If not now, then when?
It’s business that’s unfinished, high time to see it through
If not now, then when? If not us, then who?
- Written by Paul Kelly with ‘Wide Open Road’ by David McComb

Adam12. Blackers. WOTL.
Good stuff.

The scared and nervous minority have their own problems.

It’s a battle between Indo & Burleigh as to who can cut and paste the most irrelevant crap.
Posting the opinion of one person, one group etc. Not a broad representation of anyone’s views i would have thought. But, if it makes you happy, carry on.

Burleigh, I do wonder why you live in Australia sometimes, theres not much you like about the place, is there ?
If you were one of the poles on a car battery, I’m pretty sure i know which one you’d be. AW

The link I posted above has a good attempted explanation at the differences in why people are choosing to vote yes/no and frames it in a context of their educational exposure and position on nationalism/internationalism. Have a read if you have not: it explains the why behind a lot of the frustrations and conflict going on in forums and real life at present.

burleigh wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwg3mG6SPbo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Of course there are some Aboriginal people who are against The Voice, but they're a minority. You said yourself that you only have one Aboriginal friend; if you were to go out and speak with more Aboriginal people in the wider community, you would find that The Voice has overwhelming support.

overthefalls wrote:

burleigh wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwg3mG6SPbo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Of course there are some Aboriginal people who are against The Voice, but they're a minority. You said yourself that you only have one Aboriginal friend; if you were to go out and speak with more Aboriginal people in the wider community, you would find that The Voice has overwhelming support.

Oh really? And how do you know this? The radio? ABC? NITV? Which one told you.

Did these people have a say in The Ulu Statement.

Voting yes is like buying a car but not knowing what type of car you’re going to get, and the only photos you’re shown of the car are the wheels.

Are you buying that car?

burleigh wrote:

overthefalls wrote:

burleigh wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwg3mG6SPbo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Of course there are some Aboriginal people who are against The Voice, but they're a minority. You said yourself that you only have one Aboriginal friend; if you were to go out and speak with more Aboriginal people in the wider community, you would find that The Voice has overwhelming support.

Oh really? And how do you know this? The radio? ABC? NITV? Which one told you.

The local land council told me.

stunet wrote:

burleigh wrote:

overthefalls wrote:

burleigh wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwg3mG6SPbo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Of course there are some Aboriginal people who are against The Voice, but they're a minority. You said yourself that you only have one Aboriginal friend; if you were to go out and speak with more Aboriginal people in the wider community, you would find that The Voice has overwhelming support.

Oh really? And how do you know this? The radio? ABC? NITV? Which one told you.

The local land council told me.

Yes, really, Burleigh. For the past twenty years I have lived and worked in the Clarence Valley, where there is a high representation of Aboriginal people from the Yaegl, Gumbaynggirr and Bundjalung nations. They are proud people with a long history of struggle. Many of them are my colleagues, students and friends. I can say with some confidence that most of them are right behind the proposal to have a Voice in Parliament.

burleigh wrote:

Voting yes is like buying a car but not knowing what type of car you’re going to get, and the only photos you’re shown of the car are the wheels.

Oh, cool, you're going to contribute 10s of thousands of dollars, and take personal responsibility for its maintenance?
That's better than me, I'm just listening to my gut and my local Gunditjmara, Bunganditj and Ngarrindjeri communities.

@burleigh

Im honestly just appreciative that you have brought some balance to things here, it was desperately needed.

Nothing worse than a topic where all the views are one sided, obviously we are never going to get that 50/50 mix polls are showing Australia wide but still.

Aah, reluctantly I suppose credit where it's due for Indo inadvertently skewering the discussion on this thread down a far more interesting vein than the usual re-posts of Murdoch anti Voice propaganda and Andrew Bolt videos.
So well done. comrade, (but keep checking under that bed! :)
Viva la revolution.
Viva la Voice! "All power to the FNP!" "Peace, Bread, Land!"
Oops, the bolshie in me got carried away there.
Back to Burleigh and his mystery car purchase analogy I suppose. Oh well, good while it lasted.

So did SN hit peak stupidity today or what?

Communism linked to a referendum: now where did that come from??

Well, I’m glad you asked GS because we have to go back, no further, way way back to 1951 when, can you imagine it, no I can’t believe it, we here in colonial Australia actually had Menzies’ referendum to ban the Communist Party of Australia …. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Australian_Communist_Party_ban_ref…

So for 70 years plus the right of AU politics have periodically unleashed the commie cracken to scare the bejubus out of the country!

overthefalls wrote:

stunet wrote:

burleigh wrote:

overthefalls wrote:

burleigh wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwg3mG6SPbo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Of course there are some Aboriginal people who are against The Voice, but they're a minority. You said yourself that you only have one Aboriginal friend; if you were to go out and speak with more Aboriginal people in the wider community, you would find that The Voice has overwhelming support.

Oh really? And how do you know this? The radio? ABC? NITV? Which one told you.

The local land council told me.

Yes, really, Burleigh. For the past twenty years I have lived and worked in the Clarence Valley, where there is a high representation of Aboriginal people from the Yaegl, Gumbaynggirr and Bundjalung nations. They are proud people with a long history of struggle. Many of them are my colleagues, students and friends. I can say with some confidence that most of them are right behind the proposal to have a Voice in Parliament.

That’s great. My very close friend is a proud Bundjalung man, very respected and very intelligent. He’s a hard no for the voice along with many others apparently.

But unfortunately you won’t be able to hear or see him in any MSM.

The similarities to this and Covid are scary.

So your opinion is influenced by one Aboriginal man?

overthefalls wrote:

So your opinion is influenced by one Aboriginal man?

Not at all. But I highly respect this man so it’s a factor for sure.

I’ve listed previously my other reasons. But my along with my friends opinion I have absolutely zero trust for the government and this stinks of covid 2.0 with the propaganda, social media payments and MSM manipulation.

^^^ seems the covid debacle has done real damage to the voice campaign

Im reading blackfellas and whiteys that are totally skeptical about what government is up to

the trust is / was burnt

and probably rightly so

who would've thought bullshitting the public for 2-3 years would do damage?

fukn clowns

I can understand your mistrust of government, but this just seems like a golden opportunity for Aboriginal people. I’m convinced that most of them want this to get up; if most of them didn’t want it, I’d vote no.

which brings me to the communism debate...

I literally sigh every time I read someone sprout communism

it really is quite tedious

however, for anyone who has looked into the post moderism bullshit machine...

it's not surprising

there's a whole generation of trained journalists and activists out there who are totally indoctrinated into the neo-marxist bullshit

whilst this bullshit is spread thick and wide, covering lots of topics, there's clearly a new obsession with narrative control

people from communist country backgrounds see right through it. as do a couple of people on here who I can see have studied it

covid laid it bare...

and the post modern chickens are home to roost!

"Mario Speedwagon wrote:

"It takes a practised eye and an especially canny nose to sniff the bullshit and spin before it reaches you, but you can help vaccinate yourself against it by asking a few core questions:

Why is this story an “exclusive”? Who gave it to them and why?
Why is this story here at this time?
Have the photos I’m seeing been posed for?
Has the vision I’m watching been posed for?
Do the questions being asked sound unnatural, overly sweet or planted?
Is this a real story built organically or has it been puffed-up and created out of very little?

And, of course, the greatest bullshit detector question of all time:

Whose interests does this story serve?

Because if you practice sniffing and testing and interrogating every piece of information you consume every day, you make the job of the spinmeisters harder. You create an intelligent audience that demands content that is produced honestly and authentically. And for once dear reader, that isn’t bullshit and spin."

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/bullshit-and-spin/"

oh the irony!

and, in the interest of balance...

nice to see a straight talking, no bullshit academic

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/aussie-professor-busts-ridicu…

he's clearly hiding as much as he's revealing... but on the whole, I appreciate his straight-upness

overthefalls wrote:

I can understand your mistrust of government, but this just seems like a golden opportunity for Aboriginal people. I’m convinced that most of them want this to get up; if most of them didn’t want it, I’d vote no.

During covid, the ones (doctors, scientists etc) that were brave enough to stand up against the tyranny were crucified, yet as it turns out they were generally right.

Same now with the voice, it takes courage to stand up being an indigenous Australian going against the grain of the MSM propaganda machine.

I’m going with my gut, and my gut says hell no.

Burleigh, you seem to underestimate people’s abilities to not be manipulated by MSM. I only watch the footy, ABC News and Sky News on TV. I read the SMH daily, where this week alone I’ve read opinion pieces by Tony Abbott, Warren Mundine, Jacinta Price and Lydia Thorpe. I’ve considered their arguments and I simply don’t agree with them.

Continue with another Paul Kelly Song for Burleigh from Burleigh.
tbb's old school ~ Marymount College Reconciliation Choir.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/voices-rising-in-400-choirs-in-song-for…

Sypkan,
""Mario Speedwagon wrote:

"It takes a practised eye and an especially canny nose to sniff the bullshit and spin before it reaches you, but you can help vaccinate yourself against it by asking a few core questions: ...."

Well, yeah, nah.
Ronni Salt, Queen of Australian Twitter, wrote it.
Mario Facto just re-posted it.
But like all her stuff, it's gold.
She actually started following me on twitter and even re-tweeted one of my posts last year.
Felt like I'd won an Oscar that day.

View this post on Instagram

Bush Bash must have Oz best sound mixers...each live track is an epic track.
Pretty sure the crew will agree...Great Oz Soundz goin' on here!
Be a shame not to share the love...
tbb will load an Epic Classic Rock / Feel Good Reggae Mix...enjoy!

2016 Bush Bash ~ LTB : You can hear the "Echo Voices"

2018 Bush Bash ~ MYB : "Sitting all Alone"

2019 Bush Bash ~ Mala Band ~"Dream Girl"

Cultural links Vid means alot to this mob .
Agree! Natural punk like editing keeps ya hooked on the culture.
Band has a late '70's rock sound...like a Blue Oyster Cult jam session.
[3:45] kicks along real nice, that does.

Relax...you don't miss out > Wanna hear WM live...
2021 Bush Bands Bash Wildfire Manwurrk ~ 'Mararradji'

Bush Bash is a premier NT Earthy feel good Reggae Concert...
Just check out any Reggae band ya like...they all put out...

2023 "Celebrating Positivity and Unity"
10th Sept ...4-10pm Bush Bash 2023 will set ya back $10...Kidz free.
Get on that bus...best value gig in Oz.
https://musicnt.com.au/program/bush-bands/

Bonus...Chix Band...also played at Bush Bash.
Ripple Effect Band : Nguddja

In reply to the 2GB clip above, there is always more to the story.

Appo wasn’t unfairly harassed, simply told to give others a bit of a go.

As for the heart felt speech from the lady in link about indigenous representation in parliament is incorrect as mentioned by one of the Yes23 speakers, and has been pointed out many times by other politicians, Ken Wyatt for a start.

As for her claim for a Treaty. No way on earth would the LNP let that one through but at least it helps to get more to vote No in the belief that they can hold out for one.

“Audio of the questions Mr Appo put to Mr Mayo and Ms Appo-Ritchie – obtained by SkyNews.com.au – also raises questions about the narrative presented on 2GB.

Rather than being attacked for the questions he asked, the audio indicates Mr Appo caused frustration among audience members after he took up 12 minutes of a 30-minute Q&A session.”

Ms Appo-Ritchie said: “Let’s celebrate the fact that we have 11 Aboriginal and or Torres Strait Islander people who happen to be in parliament at the moment. That's pretty awesome,” Ms Appo-Ritchie said.

"But their job is not to be independent and represent all matters that affect Indigenous people.

“Their job is to represent the constituents in their electorates… And they also have to represent their party.

“So if their parties don't align with things that are actually going to make it different for us, which way are they going to go?”

“It is at this point, after nine minutes of questions, that Mr Appo claims to have been told to “sit down and shut up”.

What can be heard on the audio is multiple people talking over each other, with audience members seemingly frustrated with Mr Appo hogging the mic.”

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/voice-to-parliament/chaos-eru…

Honest John....

View this post on Instagram

Burleigh. Decries NITV and says don't trust it.
Post's 2GB audio as his trusted source of information.
Riiight.

southernraw wrote:

Burleigh. Decries NITV and says don't trust it.

Post's 2GB audio as his trusted source of information.

Riiight.

Remember when people were giving themselves hero status for getting vaccinated to help the vulnerable because that’s what the radio told them.

It’s the same for a yes vote for the voice.

Giving yourself a hero status for “doing the right thing” to do to help the indigenous Australians.

burleigh wrote:

southernraw wrote:

Burleigh. Decries NITV and says don't trust it.

Post's 2GB audio as his trusted source of information.

Riiight.

Remember when people were giving themselves hero status for getting vaccinated to help the vulnerable because that’s what the radio told them.

It’s the same for a yes vote for the voice.

Giving yourself a hero status for “doing the right thing” to do to help the indigenous Australians.

Hero status for voting yes? Geez, you’ve got a pessimistic view of humanity.

Here's to the shit throwers....

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/01/life-has-gotten-…

Burleigh considering indigenous crew can and did organise mass rallies for blm and for every invasion day, im surprised theres none for this..is there. Maybe as it gets closer but until then im going to trust my own instincts and the voices im hearing.
While im at it, are you up for explaining how indigenous livrs have improved in the last 15 or so years and can you pleaee relate that to the decline in education and increasing incarceration. An answer would b appreciated over an instagram post.
And fwiw, covid mandates are a long way off this current movement.

southernraw wrote:

Burleigh considering indigenous crew can and did organise mass rallies for blm and for every invasion day, im surprised theres none for this..is there. Maybe as it gets closer but until then im going to trust my own instincts and the voices im hearing.

While im at it, are you up for explaining how indigenous livrs have improved in the last 15 or so years and can you pleaee relate that to the decline in education and increasing incarceration. An answer would b appreciated over an instagram post.

And fwiw, covid mandates are a long way off this current movement.

I’ll let my respected indigenous friend and his brothers and sisters guide me on this.

I’m a white Australian with privilege that come with being a white Australian, I have no right to discuss these matters. Unfortunately white Australia has to vote on what they believe is best for indigenous Australians while getting white man propaganda thrown at them very similar to Covid propaganda. It’s a fucking sad time in Australia.

Hey southernraw, I haven’t come across any rallies as such; maybe because rallies usually involve protest against something, like covid vaccination mandates. However, my boss (an Aboriginal woman) recently attended a pro-Voice meeting at the local Aboriginal Housing Co-operative, otherwise known as “the mission”. She said it was a big turnout with a positive vibe. I’d imagine there would be similar low-key meetings taking place in other regional areas too.
I agree with your comments about education; in my experiences working in the sector, the disparities are a disgrace. The current system has not been particularly effective in improving educational outcomes for young Aboriginal people. Way too many are falling behind and slipping through the cracks.

Thanks for the feedback OTF. Greatly appreciative of your experiences being shared.
Yep there's a clear pathway for improving education, amongst other things, but the current structure of the government doesn't allow for that. The blueprint is there but it gets lost in the halls of parliament and all the bullshit that goes on there.
The Westminster system has it's obvious pro's, we live in a civilized society to some extent, but unfortunately it's very implementation disregarded the original inhabitants from the very beginning.
Having a voice in this system to me seems a clear way to allow some positive changes for indigenous Australians.
The only other option is a straight out revolt, viva la revolution. Deadly!!
Chances of that being successful based on the sheer weight of numbers suggest odds aren't in indigenous Australian's favour!
Hence, you gotta go through the only channel available to make change. Regardless of whether the governments are good, bad, green or blue, they are offering an opportunity for change. Previous governments have not.
Now is the time to embrace that change and put a bit of trust in the process in my opinion.

yeh adam12, i know mario facto didn't write it...

it was a very good article, and dare I say, almost balanced

the irony is in the aloofness of mario facto, thinking we're all too dumb to see through his constant bullshit and spin