More from Wax Off
truebluebasher said: Who requested the most despicable reverse hostile cross national sickly song about world's #1 arsehole!
Think tbb should first warn the…
World Music... oops, I mean, music that is perhaps unfamiliar to western listeners because it's from underrepresented places..61
blackers said: A song fer Sussan.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay…
Tunes8,398
lucky-al said: Likewise, freeride76. Will call in next time I'm down your way.
Botany Nerds Ahoy2,639
seeds
said:
Oh shit yeah, I’ve been there a couple of times. Once on school camp and once as a adult 25 years younger than now.
Show us your photos
2812
seeds
said:
Opti said “Anyone who reads your past comments will easily see why you’re not worth engaging in conversation.”
No numbn
All Things Religion Thread
5463
Optimist
said:
Where I live now is perfect…..but I’ve had better in the past.
Where in AUS would you live in you could take your pick?
17
freeride76
said:
You're always going to run the risk of a big flatty busting you or biting you off on light gear and bait hooks.
I wou
Fishing tips
1149
Supafreak
said:
This guy has broken his back in 2 places plus other injuries but this horrific fall didn’t break his spirit, such a amaz
The MTB Thread
315
I think you mean at what point would vaccine mandates become a public health risk - i.e. the risk of vaccinating outweighs the risk of letting it run.
Firstly, and thankfully, the numerous phases of clinical trials pretty quickly close out this question before a vaccine becomes available for public use.
But personally, say with covid as it stands, and assume that the government advice was 'we know the vaccine is risky, but it's there if you want it' I'd be pretty worried with anything like 1 death in 10,000 or less.
Of course, there's no way a vaccine would be rolled out with anything close to that, so it's purely hypothetical. however, there's no saying that the next variant, or next pandemic we have is the widow maker, killing 25%+ of infected.
why not answer the question first, then ask back at you.
Answering a question with a question is just avoiding answering.
You’re getting there Stok.
It’s way more complicated than meets the eye or is worth describing in detail here.
That’s why the usual development of vaccines is a 5-10 year process.
Virulence of the disease, transmissibility, treatment options, local resources, cost and adverse effects are just a few of the determinants of whether or not vaccines are the right option. So many variables it’s impossible to say “the disease has a 5% death rate therefore we are going to vaccinate the entire population”. There has to be a net benefit, which is incredibly difficult to quantify sometimes.
For example, if for every 100 people who caught the disease 5 died, yet hardly anyone caught the disease would it be worth it? And if it was highly contagious but had a extraordinarily low death rate then likewise would it be worth it?
And what if the vaccines were extraordinarily expensive?
And an infinite number of permutations in between.
This is not being an “anti-vaxxer”. These are the factors that the regulatory bodies take into account in order to decide whether to authorise a vaccine or not.
In regards to Covid, my opinion is that vaccines are an essential tool but not necessarily the sole answer. Hope that helps broaden the conversation a bit here
I don't think its that's simple.
Because the risk will always vary by a huge amount based on age, weight and health.
It would be pretty easy to be a young fit and healthy Covid anti vaxer with low risk from Covid, but you would have to a nutcase to be a Covid anti vaxer and be 60+, obese, with other health issues.
No Ben, I'm a pretty happy go lucky type of bloke. Just won't cop opinions that are dangers to others. Hence my aggression to anti-vax idiots and racists.
Hey Vic, a couple of my posts were neither anti-vax, racist nor a danger to anybody yet you still called me an idiot
In regards to your first point, we had a global pandemic response, the likes of which we've never seen, in a time when information sharing and availability is beyond comparison to the past. I'm quite happy to reject the idea that the vaccines were rushed dangerously, and accept the much more likely idea that we produced these vaccines in a manner which should be celebrated as a triumph for modern science and regulatory processes.
You've stated your opinion, but you also have stated that regulatory bodies look at this information before making a call - so do you not trust these regulatory bodies?
Which goes back to my original question - if the death rate was being splashed across headlines that it was 1 in 20 people dying, would you still hold your opinion?
You just pushed a bullshit treatment (which does have consequences) so calling you an idiot was absolutely accurate.
You've highlighted an issue....so if it killed 1 in 30 people under 60 and in good health, but 1 in 5 people over 60 with underlying issues....would people accept a vaccine mandate? If the vaccines reportedly had side effects for 1 in 10,0000 people....killed 1 in a million.....could you imagine how screwed we'd be?
A disease with 1 in 20 death rate with extraordinarily low transmissibility, good quality treatment options, and an extraordinarily high cost vaccine with frequent and devastating adverse effects then no, I would not recommend vaccination
Fair enough Vic, you were justified in calling me an idiot.
Just make sure you add that to your list of justifications for being aggressive: “a person who states an opinion that I think is bullshit”
No tylerdurden. Your bullshit opinion has to be a danger to others. Pushing quack medical treatments qualifies. If you want to push ridiculous opinions that are only a danger to yourself, that's fine with me.
Gideon M-K has said on the record it is plausible that Ivermectin has a 5-10% benefit.
Ivermectin has an extraordinarily good safety profile.
I’m pro vax and have been vaccinated.
Not sure anything I’m saying is dangerous to others
Harvey Norman claiming his business nous in observing the need for RAT tests during the preceding omicron outbreaks in Ireland and Malaysia is how he came to stockpile RAT tests in September.
Cool story Bro. Too bad Omicron was only discovered late November. And that omicron became established throughout the rest of the world, Ex South Africa, virtually simultaneously.
Someone is telling porky pies!
https://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace/the-smart-companies-that-avoi…
Hey Vic,
17 deaths in NSW today - 14 fully vaccinated
7 deaths in QLD - 5 fully jabbed.
You seeing the beginning of the pattern yet?
Your jab doesn’t work
"This is a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die," Biden said.
Not true
7 deaths, all elderly. None were fully faxed.
It’s not hard to find the truth. But to deliberately post incorrect info to suit a bias is poor form.
Id say blocking the conversation around possible effective treatments to go with Covid/vaccines is alot more dangerous to public health.
I guess the World Health Organisation are idiots too..
https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-bl…
Make sure you check your maths / stats on this, burleigh: remember that 90%+ are vaxx, so the death rate at a numeric level cannot be directly compared between these two. Rather, you need to see the death rate per 100k or similar, for each group, vaxxed and non-vaxx. There's a name for this type of statistical comparison failure, but I can't remember it...who cares. The maths still stands and makes sense.
Also, not directed at you specifically, but I've also looked into Invermectin quite a bit and found nothing substantial to back the various claims of effectiveness against COVID. It is interesting to note the Merck statement on their own website about its use: https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the…
Go figure...people still want to take it after that? Why wouldn't Merck want to make money from it? Note also that Merck are still trying to develop their own COVID vaxx...so there's really no good reason for them to not want to market something in the meantime to make money (like all 'Big Pharma' does, right???).
Straight from the ABC website:
The Health Minister says all seven people who died had not received a booster shot. Two of the people were unvaccinated.
Notice how they said “booster shot”
You’re wrong Toadkill, 5 were “fully vaccinated” but they had not received their 3rd.
Sorry mate but you’re wrong. Australia is around 78% fully vaccinated
You have just lied. Again. Horrible form from you but I expect nothing less. Hiding from the truth
Hope this works.
https://ibb.co/cyytJVC
Fully vaccinated is 2 shots and a booster. Thus, none were fully vaxed.
Gray, the Merck statement in that link you provided included this quote:
“A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.”
However, this study from 2013 says something a bit different. Apparently the study was commissioned by Merck.
https://accp1.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1177/009127002237994?s…
Remember also back when Merck released that statement at the start of 2021 they were in the process of developing their own anti-viral Molnupiravir for market. They have the patent for Molnupiravir but Ivermectin is out of patent
Take two:
[img]https://ibb.co/cyytJVC [/image]
OK blokes, how do you publish an image here?
End it with [/img] but you also need to right click and get the image URL and paste that between the tags..
https://i.ibb.co/rQQMkNc/271960676-10158963012384355-271379273038850542…
Wha?
NSW is at 95% 16yrs + fully vaccintaed.
QLD is at 90% 16yrs +.
So, despite being less than 5% of the NSW population, they make up 17%+ of the deaths.
Could you imagine how screwed we'd be if the 95% listened to idiots like you?
They just don't get simple stats. That's the main issue..
On another forum, a 70 year old triple vaxxed with some unspecified health condition is convinced that if he gets Covid he will die.
The choice in his eyes is permanent lockdown for all or his own death. He is angry.
That is where safety, safety, safety and danger, danger, danger can end up.
Really? So you’re not classed as fully vaccinated with two jabs anymore? Since when?
Take 3.
That’s would be fair if they didn’t include people under 16 in their other stats, but they do. Including unvaccinated in hospital.
So until that changes 78% of Australia is vaccinated.
Lol
So burleigh, you're happy to scream and carry on about kids not dying from covid to push your anti-vase bullshit, but not too proud to include them in your percentage of the Aus population vaxxed stats to help bolster your pathetically fragile argument.
Got it.
@gray , what is this vax that Merck are still trying to make ? Merck isn’t the only company that makes ivermectin, in india it’s made for about 10cents a tablet or less . Why are doctors working in ICUs in the US using ivermectin as part of their treatment if it doesn’t as you say work ?
Simply referring to your post, where you were pointing out the daily deaths in NSW and QLD as if it's some golden proof of your own intelligence.
You know, the one were you said out of the 17 deaths in NSW, 3 were unvaccinated. in which case I reminded you that 95%+ of the over 16 population is vaccinated.....now, unless those 17 deaths included any under 16yr olds....which it didn't....all you did was show a pretty fucken good case for getting the vaccine.
If a kid (under 15) goes to hospital for a broken arm, they will be included in the unvaxxed stats for hospitalisation, until that changes Australia is 78% vaccinated.
What don’t you understand about this dopey?
I think you’ll find that you are missing the major issue here which is your potential confusion between cause and correlation.
You blindly accept that the vaccines are as effective as stated without any real world comparison…..unless you start comparing the outcomes between highly vaccinated developed nations and unvaccinated undeveloped nations.
Which will soon show that high vaccination rates do not equate to reduced severe covid outcomes.
You refuse to acknowledge that the people who end up in hospital are the same demographic, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated. When the vaccine fails to prevent death you glibly state that the deceased was inherently sick already , yet you fail to acknowledge that the unvaccinated are almost always in the same state.
If you understood statistics you’d concede that the GENUINE covid hospitalisation rates are so low in absolute terms compared with infection rates, that the minor relative discrepancies between the vaccinated/ unvaccinated figures are statistically insignificant.
Yeah....it's like a blind rejection of real life results.
We've seen it with climate change, we've now seen it with vaccine effectiveness.
Ahhh Craig, why don’t you call out Roadkill on his ridiculous post saying that your not classed as vaccinated until you’ve had your booster?
Yep, the deaths in NSW & QLD for the past week really show the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Does the high majority of people dying fully vaccinated mean it’s working?
Roadkill believes his red lining Panicometer, which has been turned up to 11 for the past couple of years, is official Australian policy.
He doesn’t realise he’s existing in a seperate sovereign state known as The Chickenshit Kingdom.
I'm just going on the basic point of vaccinated deaths vs unvaccinated and the correlation with the amount of the population vaccinated.
While the vaccines are nowhere near as effective with Omicron they are still having an impact and preventing more deaths.
I think this is a grey area at the moment, I got in to a robust discussion with a mate about it. I was of the same impression as you Burleigh and he was adamant that “fully vaxxed” now is 2 shots and booster
Yeah I'm out Burleigh....maybe we can chat about this later in the year, once you've made it through the first half of year 10 mathematics.
"Year 10 mathematics"? That's generous.
It's more like year 6 or 7 maths.
Geez it must have been a tough job teaching burleigh. He can't understand really basic stuff, but thinks he's right all the fucking time. He probably caused a few early retirements!!
Most of the anti stuff argument tends to be on the fringes or using a small point and extrapolating that out to cover the existing belief or belief system. Common when black and white situations don't exist.
I am guessing misunderstanding how to apply statistics falls into this and if its a case of the conscious mind suspending logic thought to comply with the belief.