sameaswas

I would not say the issue was forced on us .

Australians , I believe wanted the whole issue sorted out .

It has been building for DECADES imho !

I , and many others , are desperate , and were ready to concede a lot imho .
There is so much Goodwill for our NFP imho !
It would have needed a lot more than 26 or one page to explain the detail .
Thousands , unfortunately , but necessary to sort it all out .
The NECESSARY hard work that wasn't done .

Albo wanted to set up another committee to do it . Slack imo !!!
At least Rudd and Abbott were willing to do the hard work and have a go ( didn't' get us far ) .

A referendum is the PERFECT place to sort this issue out , once and for all .

A fair and complete resolution can then be put to the Australian people .

A Yes or No .

If my guess is right , the 1967 result , will be MUCH closer than than 2023 result !!!

The problem was the whole Process was abused and politicalised .

Look at the debate on this thread .

It has been sad to watch .

I want Australia , to make a GIFT , to the current FNP ( a Future Fund plus whatever ( within reason ie no nonFNP's Australian homes eg Kirrabilli etc ) ) for the shit their ancestors went through . The Gift will not have just words . It needs to have actions .

Australians would LOVE to be the first country EVER to give this type of GIFT !
We love being first , imo !

FNP have work to do .
We need to hear all their grievances as ONE voice .
They need to decide what is scared and what is not eg can be climbed .
They need to help us know what grievances are not worth listening to .
I don't believe Whales tell people that they are worried about Woodside drilling .
They , perhaps , can decide , WHO gets the different parts of the gift .
I am not sure ?

A lot of good hard work needs to be , and will be , done !

We are Australians .

Then , we move on !

Totally sick of people saying sorry and then doing nothing . Eg Turball( less) .

If interested to see how sick of all the JUST talking , I am , please look at Mundine's speech .

PS . I am feeling like Trump and want to sack all the politician and their staff .

Unlike Trump I won't discriminate .

Will sack Federal , State and Local politicians .

It won't change anything , much .
Even the USA seems to get by when the government stops .
Happens every year or so when they run out of money .

During the govt shutdown , even for only a few days , productivity goes through the roof , nearly .

Perhaps , the reason we were supposed to go through this referendum , was to know what is needed to get a Yes that everyone can agree on .

For Australians to know how a referendum is SUPPOSED to work .

It has to , eventually, get a Yes , in this forum !

Many things happen for a reason .
Bad experiences can can a course very positively .

Probably a ridiculous analogy ( but desperate for a surf ) .

Our Reconciliation , can be , perhaps , a bit like Huge Teahupoo that had NEVER been ridden .

Along came Australia ( Laird ) and worked out , that by getting towed in by the FNP , we WANT to risk riding the wave .

Bloody hell , he set a new bar for everyone to follow .

Poppycock!

Everything I write should come with a poppy co..k warning seeds .

I can be a real D..k H !
Both my daughters stopped listening to me when they turned 7 .

I (. my ex helped a bit :) taught them well !

I think I will live long enough to vote in another referendum on this issue .

There is , only , one more chance .

Well played. Must be a day for old words. I used rigmarole in a text to someone today also.

Rigmarole - " a lengthy and complicated procedure".

Why don't we all get started now { plant some more seeds , perhaps ? ) and do the rigmarole to get to get this right ?

I will try very. hard .

I am a bit grumpy doing rigmarole stuff , so will attempt to stay out of trouble ( a bit unlikely ) , as want important things done yesterday .

Bon Chance (. Good Luck ) everyone .

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-30/nt-domestic-violence-inquiry-res…

Green Ant Bully...Official Voice Count Intervention.

To Mon 16th Oct 2023 (Initial Count 22.04% Gap)
13,995,744 counted (Breakdown)
[No] 60.90% = 8,410,654
[Yes] 38.86% = 5,439,601
[Informal] 01.04% = 145,489

Mon 23rd Oct 2023 (week 1 count 14.86% Gap)
682,744 votes added (Breakdown)
[No] 57.4% 392,043
[Yes] 42.54% 290,244
[Informal] 0.06% = 455

Mon 30th Oct 2023 (week 2 count 8.13% Gap)
1,133,172 votes added (Breakdown)
[No] 53.67% = 608,140
[Yes] 45.54% = 516,080
[Informal] 0.79% = 8,955

Summary
Ok...we all see AEC Quaddie Vaxed scrutineers leaning a touch heavy on the Left Pedal

(89.6% Current Total National Tally )
[No] 60.90% (Dropping 1%) 60.10%
[Yes] 38.86 (Rising 1% ) 39.90%
Neutral tbb : Just saying...Media + No Camp are saying nuthin?

Voice Tally order (Check)
TV Main Stage = DST (eg: Lord Howe Is + Norfolk Is > Eastern Coastal - Regions)
(Smaller Regional > Towards City)

Week 1 was said to be mostly recounting
End Week 1 > 2 Started counting Absent > Inter regional > Postals

Why is this important to scrutineer so late in the count...
Well...it may not matter to most Aussies but some Big Wigs are still sweating it out.

ALP / Teal (Massive Players) [Yes -No] City seats fall within this 1% margin.

[Yes] Teals
51.4% Kate Chaney [Yes 23 Voice behind the Voice]
50.8% Sophie Scamps could do with an AEC Power Boost to abuse her Magnate's Power.

ALP Heavy Weight Pollies still pushin' their [Yes] cases...up a slippery slope
51% Bill Shorten > Govt Services / NDIS (2019 Leader) out-polled Albo 2022
50.6% Mark Dreyfus > Attorney General - Cab' Sec.
...............................................................................................
49.8% Clare O'Neil > Home Affairs / Cyber Security

Perhaps now ...crew can see the need to scrutineer each weekly swing vote...
Wot may seem trivial to us little tadpoles can be career ending for our Giants.
Bookies could bank Billion's on Clare's AEC Care Package

Cooking Tip :
Murdoch might have spit roasted Clare before her best use by date!
Q: Can Oz Homeland Security be Safely Secured or must Clare muckrake over a divided rabble.
Crew must be feelin' the heat in the hot seat of Hotham...now @ fever pitch tiptoeing on a knife's edge!

tbb
Your analysis is ....impressive .

You highlight there is ongoing political fallout from the , what should have been a non political , referendum .

Fantastic !!!!
Heads should roll imho !

One major problem .

All the names U mention are little , bit players , who I have never heard of .

Sorry . correction TBB , thought Bill retired with Julia as he agreed with her , even when he didn't know what she was doing .
Dreyfus was in Jaws and maybe still a pollie - as I said not a keen watcher .

PM and Treasurer do interest me .

I don't care about the bit players !

Hardly responsible for this mess !
I can't remember anything said by any of them , during the debate .

A Yes or No voter , arguing the case honestly , has ABSOLUTELY nothing to fear imho .

Anyone else , their political career should end , now .

A referendum is a " Sheep Station " stuff , super important event .

Other elections we seem to have every six months !!!!!!!

Stuff with it , get burnt !

Surely there should be some BIG scalps for us to parade .

To use in the future , to remind politicians that we are serious about having proper referendums .

Maybe your supercomputer can work out who was responsible , other than the uneducated ?

Wazza wazza wazza , some colourful language . https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/30/warren-mundine-e…

What a pleasant individual.
Nothing like playing the race card when actually it’s your greed and inflated self opinion that are the problems.

AndyM wrote:

What a pleasant individual.

Nothing like playing the race card when actually it’s your greed and inflated self opinion that are the problems.

What a sad shadow of a human he is #grifter

Seeya Wazza. No longer useful.

This old fart likes him , now !

I thought his spay at the Brisbane Press Gallery , THE best spay , EVER ( since Kerry Packer ) .

Pure Gold imho !

Mundine might win a Logy something ? for best performance but those who were there , had no doubt !

We ALL could have heard a PIN DROP !

A Golden moment , imho .

Not one person from the press , or anyone else haha , were woman or man enough , to respond .

I would have clapped .

Under REAL pressure ( not at KMP D or G but like golf ) you get to see a persons true identity imho .

It just comes out , involuntarily .

Gee , I liked what I saw from Mundine , that night !!!

Of course!

I couldn't read the story .

Who invited Mundine to be the Key Speaker at the KPMG shing dig ?

$10k for a Key Speaker doesn't get U much . Vert tight !

Why ?

One bottle of nice Red at a KMPG Shing dig is $10k , nearly .

They claim it all as a tax deduction .

KMPG Partners , fondly , call each other c..ts .

Their industry should NOT throw stones .

It was good , seeds , wasn't it .

I might watch it again ?

My spieling is crop , Andy

It was a SRAY with spittle flying everywhere ( great lighting ) .

Spray .

Like when John John does his rooter tails .

His brothers waves , left ( foam ball riding ) and right ( the no take off , takeoff ) were unbelievable imho .

“ thought his spay at the Brisbane Press Gallery , THE best spay , EVER ”

Fella should have been a vet.

Hehehe
Neutering speech none the less at the press club.

Maybe it’s all a part of putting an end to the gender debate

I’d SRAY that’s a topic for Indo.

He sure knows how to get things fixed.

New TV series idea.
Better Call Wazza?

Indo has gone missing. I miss being educated.

Pops, I think you're being had,
These guys are too good! Haha, hilarious!

reform - shit , I think , upon reflection , U are right .

I have been gotched up , again :)

Second time , that happened , yesterday , I now reckon .

Especially , that seed(y) character , I think .

I still can't believe , upon reflection , they didn't like a Mundine spray .

Better than JJ's , and that's saying something , imho .

How's Stan Grant's swipe?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stan-grant-takes-aim-at-devasta…

Albo stated many times that it was a: "modest request"

Stan Grant: it was actually of "monumental" importance

Yes campaign activists lash out letter suggests big plans disrupted (not just advice).

Either Albo:
- had no idea what he was talking about ("I have not read it"), or
- he was intentionally misleading us

Neither inspires trust in him or the whole Voice rconcept.

seeds wrote:

Indo has gone missing. I miss being educated.

So has Jelly Flater, @seeds.
...actually... now you mention it... I've never seen those two in the same room at the same time... you don't think... ?

And Harry was brought in to...?

Harry?

oh, Harry is just adam12 when he's on the scotch ; )

I suppose someone could have some fun with alter egos couldn’t they.

If people feel some need to diss Warren or Jacinta because things didn't go your way and it makes your feel better somehow, then yeah whatever.

Personally im a bit done with this thread and topic.

That's the spirit Indo.

Time to move onto the next soupe du jour.

Not sure why you would say that @info, he’s just a grifter in my book

Plat du jour Zen, let's make a meal out of it

It’s Stan having a go at Jacinta ‘it’s all good’ Price. While she was claiming blackfellas have never had it better Stan had to quit his job because of the online racism he was copping.

Indo showing his powers of comprehension yet again :)

zenagain wrote:

That's the spirit Indo.

Time to move onto the next soupe du jour.

Haha.
He’s done educating the common folk on this topic and now off to smother the next.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Personally im a bit done with this thread and topic.

Geez Indo.
If only it were that easy for our Indigenous crew to be 'done' with it.
Anyway, as much as you've tied me and many in knots with your posts, there's definitely a positive to your posts.
I remember M.C writing something similar about how you give others the opportunity to make researched and educated opinions to counter your posts.
So for all the negative, good on ya Indo.
I reckon i know 10 times more than i ever could have on this issue because of having to argue with ya! :-P

hope I didn't take from your last post, @blackers, that you'll not be posting much anymore. You're a major highlight to the music enjoyment on this site.

(how familiar is @snarf2400 in the comments section? under the responses to @gamefreak2050.. . uncanny... )

good breakdown of referendum failure on 7.30 report tonight

aside from the (still) absolute delusional denial position of thomas mayo that is...

mick gooda (one of the architects)...

'...i cannot believe they didn't take a draft model to the electorate...'

'...ridiculous to expect people to vote on something without knowing what it is...'

'...no detail...'

or words to that effect...

"abundane of detail"

or

"no detail"

?

ask albo...

and yeh, good to see stan grant tell it like it is...

"“The Voice was never a modest ask, it was monumental..."

"a modest request"

or

"a monumental ask"

?

ask albo...

clown was too gutless / incompetent / deceitful / incapable to sell it...

"...Grant said he was tired of lies and spin: “Liberal spin, I am tired of Labor spin, I am tired of Yes spin and No spin.”"

aren't we all stanley... aren't we all...

"...

Either Albo:
- had no idea what he was talking about ("I have not read it"), or
- he was intentionally misleading us

Neither inspires trust in him or the whole Voice rconcept."

yep

the dudes cooked...

I don't think he's 'dutton's our next PM' cooked like some are celebrating...

but he ain't looking good, with his cost of living debacles... his nauseating chummyness with joyce... his all over the shopness with the voice...

and now post voice... he's just looking a lying prick...

like him or not...

I though he was more genuine than that

Hey Syp.
Take of this what you will. I know we're on the same page regarding a voice....but i see your posts as destructive as the noise that opposed the voice.
I only ever saw the voice as an opportunity for us 'whiteys' to offer an olive branch to aboriginal people as some kind weak, but neccesary step in reconciliation for the racism, yes, i'll spell it out, R.A.C.I.S.M of the last 240 years.
I mentioned an ex of mine and her dad in previous posts, both being indigenous and how my observations greatly affected me.
It's funny. You spend enough time around indigenous folk, and you start to see patterns emerging.
What i saw was a common default to submissiveness to whiteys. You're the boss, etc.
What i saw was the in built defensive mechanisms to racism.
They know they're going to get it. They know they're different. How they deal with it is what determines their path forward.
Easiest to mould your outward character to fit in, than to ever try to be a proud indigenous person in this whitewashed culture. Can you imagine?
You can be a white Australian and do a crime, and it's just a crime.
You can be an indigenous Australian and do a crime, and you're an Indigenous Australian, that did a crime.
Just another one. You will be dealt the wrath of white society.
This feeds perfectly into the incarceration system.
Whites want to see indigenous locked up, and the government is only too happy to oblige.
In society....
They had to do everything 3 times with more care than a white person.
Wanna progress in this world? You better triple make sure you can be trusted. Because, there's this....stigma....you know? You're black!?
I could go on. There's a billion examples i could use. But they don't seem to get through. The conversation gets dragged back into a primitive stage, which is where it seems most Australians want it to stay.
The whole voice referendum turned into this quagmire of politics and opinion based on laws, reforms, indigenous communities and their own domestic violence problems....etc etc.
Not once, was the voice based on racism. And that's what it should have been based on. All along. Because that's what it is!
Australia is racist, (not a statement, a verified fact) and the no vote just re confirmed it.
Which i knew it would,....3 years ago if you look at my original posts. Although back then i guessed 85percent were racist so i guess i should be celebrating right?
In my earliest posts, i posted what would it be like to be an indigenous Australian male, joining an Australian house sitting website and posting a profile pic and looking for a place to house sit.
I've done it as a white male...very successfully in the past.
How do you think a single indigenous male of the same age, shining black in his profile pic, how would he go getting someone's luxury abode looking over the ocean for 2 months?
Honest answer now.
At the end of the day, i speak up for the end to racism of indigenous Australians, because two of the dearest i have known, have left this planet and racism was a part of their demise.
And i stand up against racism because the conversation is continually turned away from racism to suit the needs of those carrying the most shame and guilt of where they sit in this patch of red soil. It's always about everything...BUT...racism. Time for an honest conversation.
Think about that, and forget about the politics.
Liberal, labour, who cares. They're still two sides of the same coin that have kept indigenous Australians to be the other.
Still super stoked my local electorate voted Yes.
Proof that at least i live in the right part of Australia.

I heard a painful story tonight .

I am very lucky to have wriggled my way into an impressive group of gentleman who are legends in their field .

We meet fortnightly at a local pub .

Unfortunately , this fn referendum has been a topic of discussion for months .

One guy was Yes at first .

His son , who works in the Outback , rang him , just before the election , pleading with him to vote Yes . "Dad , u don't know what it means to the people up here ."

We didn't ask him how he voted .

I said that he should be proud of his son , as I was , of my two daughters , who voted Yes !.

We all agreed .

I feel we really let our FNP and our young generation down .

I am still , so angry , we were put through this mess ,

If he gives a sorry , and a sincere promise to try and unite Australia on this issue , to choose a Group of 9 ( My crazy idea ) with Royal Commission Super like powers , to work night and day , with unlimited budget , to bring a comprehensive and fair solution ( some solutions to be quickly implemented by parliament ) for US to decide on in 3 Years MAX ! Pay them Quadrillions ( a real word , apparently) to do a good job and to get the best people !!!!!!

Albo , could and should , save his position imho .

I don't believe it was Albo's IDEA(D) to promise a referendum to the voters ( a bribe? ) , last time .

He is not that ruthless imo . That's the old ALP , whatever it takes .

Maybe Andrews was involved ?

My first selection of Chairan of the board of 9 is , obviously .... Onion Boy !

He stoped the boats , is honest , is a surfer and can fight ( a good hubby and dad to ) .

2nd is Matt Comyn ( CBA CEO ) . OMG - this guy is one of the best I have seen , up with Maca ( CSL ) ,

Probably not enough clout but so much gravitas when seen ( especially in person ) !

If Albo chose Tony , which side would complain , so the obvious choice imo .

Both Men of Extreme - True Grit !!!

Nice words below , would make most feel a bit better :)

yep. you've been a really real poster on this @southern, thank you.
Calling out the 'I'm not against aboriginals, they deserve a leg up,
and I want them to get the help they need, I just don't think THIS
was the way to do it. And I WANT DETAIL...' peeps.
control. power. majority rules. back in yer box.
we're in charge of the patronising narrative.
youse can't be trusted to make yer own mistakes.
and youse should be more grateful for this wonderful country we given ya.
(fear of a 3% that hold a lot of beauty in the palm of their hand. sad shit)

Thanks @basesix
Have appreciated your support more than words can say throughout.
You're a true gentleman, as are many others throughout this thread...hope you all know who you are. There's a real vibrational high that you lot have kept through this thread and i couldn't be more grateful.
Thanks heaps legends!

fair points southernraw

but sorry, unless labor and YES are honest about what just happened, this little moment will only tear us apart, unecessarily, from my perspective

there was some refreshing honesty in that 7.30 report analysis... except for thomas mayo...

I sincerely feel for those that put their hearts and souls into this proposal, but the public rejected IT, not aboriginal people!

they rejected it, because it seemed all over the place and they couldn't believe in its potential efficacy

they rejected it, because the messaging was all over the shop (by the advocates own admission...)

they rejected it, because the whole thing was full of misinformation... yes, YES too...

they rejected it, because there literally was 'no detail'... see mick gooda

they rejected it, because labor adopted the most cynical of political tactics ever... that one could argue is just contemporary politics... but it is a long running pattern from the contemporary left... where they engage in bullshit as hard as anyone, bullshit and obfuscation, omit facts and realities, make up fairy tales, plead moral superiority... then portray voters as dumb when they don't fall for this most cynical of political tactics...

labor just don't respect their voters, it is as simple as that...

this vote showed that more than any

the internet has enlightened voters, they know shit... and if they don't, they google it - much to labor's distaste...

until they learn to respect voters again, and to take voters with them on their endeavours, 'the left' is in all sorts of trouble...

every election, every vote, will go down to the wire, ...and the flip of a 'misinformation' coin... as has been the case for some time now...

and nothing significant will ever get done

the right of politics has nothing to offer your average punter- this is especially the case in australia - I'd argue otherwise elsewhere...

but if labor don't sort their shit out, don't learn how to respect the electorate again...

we may just end up with dutton

eeewwwww!

Thanks Sypkan.
Appreciate your reply.
I honestly feel like Labors only mistake was allowing as much autonomy as the system they operate within allows, in the process for indigenous Australians...as they should have....
Was it a mistake. Well maybe an honest one, but one that i'll back.
It was letting the requests of the indigenous Australians regarding the statement from the heart and their hope that a referendum could avoid politics and appeal to the Australian public to say Yes, be let through without fanfare from labor itself, without putting more political spin on something that wasn't theirs to own and allowing it to be its own evolving idea, within the Australian public. It was a question. A simple question. What more could Labor do than accomodate that question. It wasn't their question to own.
Anyway....It turns out, that wasn't enough for the Australian public.
Australian public got stuck somewhere between expecting an explanation of details from the leading Labor party, yet,, in reality, not willing to sit down and listen to what Indigenous Australians have been asking for, for a long time.
If one was willing to just look.....
There's been years of details proposed, discussed, dissected and debated, but the narrative was, there's no details.
So who's fault is that? Labors? They gave the platform, they interfered minimally.
They let it run it's natural course, and when the corridor that they opened to allow this referendum to take place was shut down, they accepted now wasn't the time.
Like i said above.
The conversation gets bogged down in the quagmire of the politics, when in reality, the Labor party politics was minimalistic in it's approach to this. As for the other party, i'll leave that for reflection.
The real question then, is if, No wasn't based on politics, as i've outlined, then what was it based on?
I'll give you a clue.
Starts with R.

Excellent take Sypie!
Very true and has had monumental consequences in upset, disappointment, and the unwitting embarrassment for those fnp wishing for their voice and recognition. This is quite substantial!
And the cost of a failed exercise. Yeah, more than just a few hundred million... That is quite substantial! Not good, most knew too!