Case in point above SR. I never knew about that 1944 law. Just gut wrenchingly awful. Shameful.

I do have faith in our younger generations though. Change won't come overnight but I feel the winds blowing in the right direction.

Yup. There's alot buried in our archives that if you take the time to look reveals itself @zen.
Even the fact i couldn't share the direct link without you clicking on a few tabs sets off inbuilt alarm bells to me.
The history is buried.
It's up to us good folk to share it and reveal some real truths.
No judgement on folk who haven't been made aware of this kind of history.
I hope it helps steer the ship in the right direction.
Thanks for alway being a very good fulcrum of reasoning Master Zen.
There's little validation for that on the internet but rest assured, it's hugely valued.

I was watching an interview the other day with a lady born in war torn Sudan who migrated to Australia. She is surrounded by relatives with a history of trauma.

She had worked hard to learn english and start a new life and help her family. She made the statement that her personal philosophy is:

"Intergenerational trauma stops with me"

Powerful, positive ... not easy.

But her children, nieces and nephews will benefit.

She is not expecting the government here and those back in Sudan who caused the wars, to right the wrongs. She will just do her bit to try to move on for her own benefit and as an example to those around her struggling to adjust to a new life.

How would that view go down with Marcia, Noel, Mayo etc. ?

What choice did she have @frog?
Sounds like the very end of a very sad road to me.
Is this what we're advocating?

She was happy and positive. Not a sad end at all. Sorry to be the bearer of good news,

She had been back to Sudan and reconnected with heaps of relatives she never knew but also had her new life she liked.

Thank you Southern Raw (Rest mate, nurse yourself, take arnica, it’s great for healing) and AndyM (I agree with you) and Thanks too Indo Dreaming!
I felt/still do feel the need to voice. It’s a self-preservation thing but for the good of Mother earth! It’s not personal. It’s about content and without speaking up shit continues to happen, then, before we know it we’re swimming in it all around us!

What were her options @frog?
Were there more than one i.e succumb and accept?
Im so glad you brought this point up. :-)

Right bavk atchya @reform.
Stay true to the course mate.
Love your work.

Also @frog i love the way youve diverted a discussion about indigenous Australians to one of Sudanese. This is how discussions get derailed.
Lets focus on Australian history, not Sudanese.
There's a whole nother thread waiting fir you to start for that ;-)
Agreed?

ho-lee scheisse, best troll ever, what the fark just happened there?

Reparation thread for aboriginal people becomes an elder talking-to, a confessional, and a bullying-meeting for the poor conservatives .. jesus, it has been a messy thread, so most of us who cared-a-lot have just endeavored to try to bow-out as best we could, while freaks like harry and indo carried on like farkin pork-chops. I like that indo alluded to his autism, and harry made 1 or 2 fairly ok comments, ('mr academic papers', priceless @burleigh) but wow! Is this the not-voice? Are we in it? Are we living the dream?

southernraw wrote:

And then of course,...lets not mention 1944.

"To be granted 'citizenship' under this Act, an Aboriginal person had to convince a magistrate that he/she had severed all ties to extended family and friends (parents, siblings and own children excepted), was free from disease, would benefit from holding citizenship and was 'of industrious habits'. Repealed by Native (Citizenship Rights) Act Repeal Act 1971."

I mean there was a war going on......that indigenous crew were fighting in mind you. But don't mention the war when there's one closer to home.

I'm not sure how Australians right now can focus on the politics of this issue and ignore these straight out political facts from the not too distant past. This is where the current trauma lies. Anyone willing to dispute this??? Better be a good argument ;-)

Hang in there @basesix. You're an absolute breath of fresh air and i for one am stoked on your wisdom.
This above post is primarily for the big speakers to address.
Please....enlighten us all with your wisdom big speakers.
This is a past you can't hide from.
So many words.
i wonder how they speak to this????
Please address. Thanks.

Particularly those who are 'sick of this thread' yet want to speak..
Speak!!

Here's a hint. Those who were alive in 1944 are still alive today. I wonder how that affects their direct family.
Speakers?????????????????????????????
"i'm over this conversation'?
"im a kiwi but i want this conversation closed'?
Speak!!!!

southernraw wrote:

"im a kiwi but i want this conversation closed'?

Speak!!!!

Now you're being obtuse, SR. Or deliberately misconstruing my comments.

@indo "Many views i hold also aren't really considered right wing, pro multiculturalism, not religious, accept man made climate change, pro renewables, pro EV's, pro drug reform, not against legal abortion, support a public health care system etc

In the USA my views on these issues would probably see me labelled by some as left leaning, which i find insulting."

Actually indo your three favourite prime ministers and half of their cabinets would mark you down for those opinions.

Meanwhile Scomo throws his hat in the ring supporting the ongoing war? Wtf does his opinion count for anything representing Australia now? Once a cunt always a cunt

Fliplid wrote:

@indo "Many views i hold also aren't really considered right wing, pro multiculturalism, not religious, accept man made climate change, pro renewables, pro EV's, pro drug reform, not against legal abortion, support a public health care system etc

In the USA my views on these issues would probably see me labelled by some as left leaning, which i find insulting."

Actually indo your three favourite prime ministers and half of their cabinets would mark you down for those opinions.

Huh??

You seem to know more about me than i do myself, i dont have three favourite PM's, its only really Howard that i hold an high regard and would have back in a heart beat, sadly i never got to vote for him i was still young and naive and voting Greens or Labor, the last election is actually the only time ive voted LNP

And any three previous PM's that you have told me are my favourites im sure dont agree with me on all these views

So im not sure what your point is?

When you vote for a party or PM, it doesn't mean you agree with all their views or all the parties views or policies, you just vote for those who align best with your views.

Edit: Okay i get your point, you are saying they would see me as left wing too because of those views on those issues

Yeah i dont think so.

southernraw wrote:

Geez fellas. Let it go.

It's not about Indo Dreaming.

Don't succumb to the dark side.

I did it too often.

Light shines the way.

Think about it legends.....

edit Not calling you the darkside Indo Just our own personal defaults. Like i said, you're fine by me.

Thank's SR

Thats what i do like about you, we can go head to head it can get ugly, we dont agree with much but when its all said and done we can come out the other end and not see each other as enemy's just because we hold different views.

Reform wrote:

It’s all about Indo, he’s difficult... and his comments argumentative which incites the readers to make their passionate responses.

A provocateur of the finest sense! Ha ha!

Indo takes the long drawn out way and drags everybody along with it. Warning, warning! Reader alert! Its “ID response time”

He’s a shit stirrer with enough paddle power to cross the whole of the Tasman sea, truly!

And he gets his target nearly every time, even like this comment from me, he loves it! Just loves to see that he is the focus because without it what else would he do? He’d be lost!

The consensus is that he is pretty harmless and soft, but I know that his views are self-centred and he doesn’t give a shit about destroying the land or indigenous rights or native habitat at the hands of mining for coal or gas. I hope I’m wrong Indo about this and I know many think this way unfortunately! We had this discussion years ago on these pages and I know your position was like that, same as the reckless mining corporations and supporting govts’. Lets just ride over Cultural significant landscapes and make them dead landscapes, nice!

This mindset is unforgivable! And is dangerous to define that agenda. For this I stand tall and will my opposition. Cheers

Its truely bizarre some of the takes people have on me.

Like where do some of these things and ideas come from like destroying the land or " or native habitat at the hands of mining for coal or gas"

My guess is because im critical of those that blindly oppose things like mining or cant stand radical activist, im also critical of those that blindly oppose things like wind farms, i have one in eye sight of where i live, i have zero issues with it.

It's all about balance we need mining, the things we are using right now to post are because of mining, mining isn't evil, and in places like Australia its done under some of the strictest environmental regulations in the world and also get the benefit to our economy and individuals (i have a few mates that are unskilled but now very successful in life as did stints in mining to buy houses & business etc)

Id personally much rather have it done in our backyard under these strict environmental regulations and controls than done in third world countries where they don't have these measures and it then is really damaging to the environment.

As weird as it might sound I actually see myself as an environmentalist, i love the bush and nature and clean water and preserving these things with national parks and protected zones etc.

But again its all about balance, people need to be realistic we need mining just like we need wind farms.

In regard to attention, im sorry but i dont love it, i dont want to totally ignored but i also dont want to be the focus or even talked about, but im often the vocal black sheep so i do get a lot of attention.

This forum is bizarre in ts such a left leaning space even in the surfing world be it social media or local carpark things are much much more diverse, you even see it in Swellnet comments on FB or even the main article comments are much more diverse.

southernraw wrote:

Also @frog i love the way youve diverted a discussion about indigenous Australians to one of Sudanese. This is how discussions get derailed.

Lets focus on Australian history, not Sudanese.

There's a whole nother thread waiting fir you to start for that ;-)

Agreed?

Divert the thread? - not my intention at all - just pointing out a parallel example of how individuals can take power into their own hands to break patterns of behaviour that could otherwise roll on through the generations in their family. The Sudanese lady was just a "neutral" non FNP with trauma in her family's past taking a stand with merit (to strive to not pass on intergenerational trauma) that could not be jumped on like say a JP quote is.

If thousands did this or even tens of thousands, it would help the next generations in many societal groups from all cultures.

Some just can't do it as the history is locked in too deep. Others seem to advocate hanging on to the trauma and making sure all around them are taught it as a core part of their family's being.

Almost becomes a religion: cultivated for reasons that often underpin many religions - shared trauma gives meaning, reasons, narratives, common ground, a mission, a purpose, a job, something powerful to speak about, Leaders love an emotionally charged message to build a following. A large following becomes a power base - for good sometimes - but not necessarily.

Plenty of reasons to keep trauma going into future generations either by passive acceptance, just by immersion or, most concerningly, by active promotion by some for various reasons But is it healthy? Good for the kids? Pass on the good but maybe not everything?

mikehunt207 wrote:

Meanwhile Scomo throws his hat in the ring supporting the ongoing war? Wtf does his opinion count for anything representing Australia now? Once a cunt always a cunt

Summed up here.

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/advocate-in-focus/dumb-and-dumber-3-dea…

pretty funny people take indod so personally...

I think he tries consciously to not be

he just presents a different view to what some people consider as 'acceptable' ...and then people take it as a personal affront...

he is 'autistic' in his delivery perhaps, but this is him just being factual and trying not to be personal from what I can gather

it is just the ol' classic of 'left' leaning people getting all butt hurt and bent out of shape at people who do not share the exact same worldview as them... the outrage machine...

that has become rather outrageous in itself....

haha, so funny, there's like 3 people who get majorly rankled by Indo's opinions. Dozens of us like him, but find his relentless black and white stance on every subject mildly annoying, not the opinion itself. Big deal. And he's getting heaps better, as I've said, I like reading most of his posts now.

Love how trying to find angry lefty woke activists under the bed makes for a better narrative for some people. Like calling things neo-liberal alt-right boomerism is a thing for some people. Bring back the messy middle. This left/right game-playing is beneath us here in Aus.

the sudanese thing is interesting, and at risk of 'derailing' the thread, I think it gives some good context, and compare and contrast...

I worked with sudanese guys for years looking after aboriginal kids. one in particular springs to mind. literally grew up in a refugee camp. after several years was 'allowed' to build a corro iron humpy, spent another ten years there, before winning the lottery and getting sponsored to come to australia ('the queue' in process... 'working' as intended...)

anyway, after several years in oz, he had a young family, was buying a house, and was attending uni - where I helped him with his assignments - as english was his second language...

some very interesting conversations were had about the kids we looked after, the system, the literally millions of $$, and the 'disadvantage'...

anyway, my purpose here isn't to bag aboriginal people, but just to point out that 'disadvantage' in australia is largely a 'construct' of perception...

and, that whilst not intending to dismiss trauma, a lot comes down to how individuals, families, and communities deal with it... in australia there has been so much focus on the negatives of colonisation and trauma, it is no wonder that there is little incentive, encouragement, and even programs to overcome it...

there has been a certain narrative in oz about 'land never ceded' and 'give it back', 'pay the rent' etc... that large parts of the aboriginal community have been 'holding out' until the complex legal arguments about 'terra nullius' come to fruition...

these seemed all cool, fair enough, and even inevitable back in the 90's... but if the voice referendum patently showed one thing... it is that those days are well and truly behind us...

perception is everything... and stan grant talks of the debillitating effect the constant negative narrative around aboriginal people has... when actually many aboriginal people have well and truly 'made it' into the middle class...

I'm not arguing against terra nullius, or give it back, or whatever... maybe that day will eventually come...

but my point is, blackfellas have been sold a lemon, not so much a lemon... but what has manifested into being false hope from my perspective...

a false hope that encourages blackfellas to NOT participate in society, to not join in the opportunity that abounds for anyone lucky enough to find themselves in oz...

yeh yeh... that's all sounding very 'assimilation'... (wash your mouth out!!)

but the reality is, australia has changed significantly over the last 30 - 40 years... with over the top migration, the selling of public assetts, and a 'user pays' system encroaching on what was once our very egalitarian society...

globalisation and neoliberalism on steroids...

blackfellas have been kinda shut out by an influx of 'blowins' from my perspective

an influx that dramatically has changed australia forever... for better or worse...

the dream is gone I reckon

too little, too late

yep, agree, sypkan, but far more importantly, admire the concessions, personal sharing, and the nuance, great post ; )

the irony is... the open borders left...

inadvertedly shattered the dream!

@indo "Edit: Okay i get your point, you are saying they would see me as left wing too because of those views on those issues"

That's it.

Just pointing out that there are plenty of oz politicians who think those progressive ideas are wrong

I was just taking the piss about your favourite pm's ;)

Sypkan, agree.

For it came to pass that the high priests and priestesses (N and M?) of FN trauma preached the gospel:

- Salvation will only come when Voice, Truth and Treaty finally come down from the sky and walk the earth.

- Until then, thou shalt hold on tight to your trauma and make sure to teach your children all its pain For the burden is theirs, as it was yours, forever until the day of salvation.

- The day of reckoning may be many generations coming, so joy expect not in your lifetime or that of your children. But that matters not say the priests.

- And, if your people stray from the true path of pain, admonish them as unbelievers and apostates.

- If false prophets arise who seek to deny the true path and offer a simple message of peace, joy and opportunity in the world as it is, shun them.

So spoke the Priests of trauma in their flowing robes and from their shining temples on the hill filled with riches.

so there you go, nuance has left the building; a broad-brushstroke to summarise a complex thing - chalk to the left or right? or a waxy agree that frog has complex views and is a good guy? Let's see..

nah, there's nuance...

there's the open borders left, that advocated for years and years for an open door policy; that all refugeees are legit.; that money grows on trees - so only 'racists' would argue against importing chinese grandmothers to burden an already struggling system... the cultural cringers... the questioning outrageous migration is 'racist' crowd...

then there's the other left... the crew that think it is not racist to count and stuff... to protect industry... to aim for sustainability... in all it forms...

the crew that will never ever ever vote for morrison, abbott, and howard... as it is clearly against their own self interest...

the 'old' labor...

me

'the open borders left are doing the dirty work of the koch brothers' - bernie sanders

there's nuance...

it's just the open borders left don't do it!!

yeh, nah, I got a bit lost there, I was referring to frog's poetic post. I love the story of my grandfather's Labor (no immigration, worker's jobs above all else, kill the trees if it helps) morphing into new Labor (open borders, shut everything dirty down, help the frogs). Now THAT is discussion. 'Labor values'.. always at odds with itself.. always evolving.. always easy to dismiss.. always worthy of robust discussion. And if parts of the 'working class' becomes cashed-up, comfy tradies, they can move on, but the strugglers, those with complex issues.. that is Labor, and people who believe in supporting that idea.
(@indo, I happily vote to give more 'power' to others, through donation, volunteering and actual voting, all the time).

Fair points @frog and @syp.
Will eat a bit of humble pie in my assumptions.
Thanks for taking the time to post those replies.
Man, i wish this thread had a few more indigenous contributors to help balance it out with some lived experience, some thoughts and ideas from their own perspectives.
With all the good intentions posted from each commenter, it's still a one sided conversation in alot of ways.

frog wrote:

southernraw wrote:

Also @frog i love the way youve diverted a discussion about indigenous Australians to one of Sudanese. This is how discussions get derailed.

Lets focus on Australian history, not Sudanese.

There's a whole nother thread waiting fir you to start for that ;-)

Agreed?

Divert the thread? - not my intention at all - just pointing out a parallel example of how individuals can take power into their own hands to break patterns of behaviour that could otherwise roll on through the generations in their family. The Sudanese lady was just a "neutral" non FNP with trauma in her family's past taking a stand with merit (to strive to not pass on intergenerational trauma) that could not be jumped on like say a JP quote is.

If thousands did this or even tens of thousands, it would help the next generations in many societal groups from all cultures.

Some just can't do it as the history is locked in too deep. Others seem to advocate hanging on to the trauma and making sure all around them are taught it as a core part of their family's being.

Almost becomes a religion: cultivated for reasons that often underpin many religions - shared trauma gives meaning, reasons, narratives, common ground, a mission, a purpose, a job, something powerful to speak about, Leaders love an emotionally charged message to build a following. A large following becomes a power base - for good sometimes - but not necessarily.

Plenty of reasons to keep trauma going into future generations either by passive acceptance, just by immersion or, most concerningly, by active promotion by some for various reasons But is it healthy? Good for the kids? Pass on the good but maybe not everything?

You are 100% correct, cycles can only be broken by individuals, IMHO thinking otherwise is dangerous especially if next generations buy into being told it will affect them, its becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

My mum had a very abusive father, mentally, physically and sexually yeah sure she has issues but she broke the cycle and didn't pass it on like many do.

BTW. Your other post is 100% true too and sadly those at the top can control how wider communities view things, and those people are never going to say okay this is the turning point.

Its a similar deal on reconciliation, dont expect the high priest to ever say its all good now this is it, the worst thing is resentment is more damaging to those that harbour it than to those they have it against.

As an aside, people who say '100%' must surely realise this immediately diminishes their intended support. So few things in discussy verbiage are 100%, it just shouts 'I'm in your tribe' and little else.. try saying '93%' or '87%' instead.. see how it feels : )
(I get it is a Sonic-Youthy way of saying 'totes', but, yeh ..)

Coper cites the famous quote from Steve Bannon, which neatly summarises that playbook: “Flood the zone with shit.”

Put simply: you make outrageous populist pronouncements and then wait for the mainstream media to report them. Inevitably the other side will seek to debunk them. Coper calls it the “weaponisation of lies”.

The fact people attempt to correct this misinformation, says Coper, “is a feature, not a bug”. The whole point is to create controversy. From there, the claims move into social media, whose algorithms elevate conflict, and out through “all these disinformation networks, whose job it is to spread those messages … far and wide”.

When Jacinta Nampijinpa Price says colonisation was good for Indigenous people, or Nyunggai Warren Mundine calls a modest proposal for consultation a declaration of war, it does not matter if the claims do not hold up under sober consideration. What matters is that they create division.

“In my opinion,” says Coper, “the most damaging message for the referendum was that Australia would be divided by race. So if you look at that, Advance starts advertising that message as early as September–October 2022. And then you see it bounce around the internet in this kind of ecosystem.”

In that assessment, Coper and Advance agree. Sheahan told CPAC his organisation’s research identified it early as the key message.

“And through the polling … focus groups, it was clear that division was the big, big factor for people voting ‘No’,” he said. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/2023/11/04/the-man-behind-adva…

Yep

Yeah, but..

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-free-press-wins-dao-prize

Supafreak wrote:

Coper cites the famous quote from Steve Bannon, which neatly summarises that playbook: “Flood the zone with shit.”

Put simply: you make outrageous populist pronouncements and then wait for the mainstream media to report them. Inevitably the other side will seek to debunk them. Coper calls it the “weaponisation of lies”.

The fact people attempt to correct this misinformation, says Coper, “is a feature, not a bug”. The whole point is to create controversy. From there, the claims move into social media, whose algorithms elevate conflict, and out through “all these disinformation networks, whose job it is to spread those messages … far and wide”.

When Jacinta Nampijinpa Price says colonisation was good for Indigenous people, or Nyunggai Warren Mundine calls a modest proposal for consultation a declaration of war, it does not matter if the claims do not hold up under sober consideration. What matters is that they create division.

“In my opinion,” says Coper, “the most damaging message for the referendum was that Australia would be divided by race. So if you look at that, Advance starts advertising that message as early as September–October 2022. And then you see it bounce around the internet in this kind of ecosystem.”

In that assessment, Coper and Advance agree. Sheahan told CPAC his organisation’s research identified it early as the key message.

“And through the polling … focus groups, it was clear that division was the big, big factor for people voting ‘No’,” he said. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/2023/11/04/the-man-behind-adva…

The irony of this was the voice was built on misinformation, the biggest lie was that Indigenous people have no say in matters that affect them, when they are consulted at all levels from councils to state to federal through all kinds of different ways.

Then there was the lie that it was a modest proposal

And then lie after lie from a 26 page document some how only being one page to another lie that it had nothing to do with Treaty, when it was clearly outlined as the first step.

The whole things was misinformation or no information before the No camp even existed.

Luckily most Aussie's have very good bullshit radars, well about 60% at least.

bonza wrote:

Yeah, but..

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-free-press-wins-dao-prize

Its going to be very interesting to see who supports and who opposes these misinformation laws here.

Surely people aren't going to let themselves be split left V's right on this?

I sure dont want or trust any government deciding what is the truth and what is not, especially after covid.

indo-dreaming wrote:

The irony of this was the voice was built on misinformation, the biggest lie was that Indigenous people have no say in matters that affect them, when they are consulted at all levels from councils to state to federal through all kinds of different ways.

Then there was the lie that it was a modest proposal

The Productivity Commission disagrees, plus there is no transparency in any of the decision making affecting Aboriginals on who has given advice and if that advice is acted on.

You claims are BS according to the Productivity Commission.

As for modest proposal it was aggressively opposed by Aboriginal activist because it was powerless.

Rex Fitzpatrick who actually knows about this stuff (unlike you) said the same, it was signed off on by conservatives (real ones not Dutton / Price / fu(witts) because there was no transfer of power.

Your naivety in believing BS rather that applying very basic critical thinking is staggering.

Still its over there will be no further progress in addressing the issues concerning a population in Australia is living in 3rd world conditions... we can all sleep easy.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

Coper cites the famous quote from Steve Bannon, which neatly summarises that playbook: “Flood the zone with shit.”

Put simply: you make outrageous populist pronouncements and then wait for the mainstream media to report them. Inevitably the other side will seek to debunk them. Coper calls it the “weaponisation of lies”.

The fact people attempt to correct this misinformation, says Coper, “is a feature, not a bug”. The whole point is to create controversy. From there, the claims move into social media, whose algorithms elevate conflict, and out through “all these disinformation networks, whose job it is to spread those messages … far and wide”.

When Jacinta Nampijinpa Price says colonisation was good for Indigenous people, or Nyunggai Warren Mundine calls a modest proposal for consultation a declaration of war, it does not matter if the claims do not hold up under sober consideration. What matters is that they create division.

“In my opinion,” says Coper, “the most damaging message for the referendum was that Australia would be divided by race. So if you look at that, Advance starts advertising that message as early as September–October 2022. And then you see it bounce around the internet in this kind of ecosystem.”

In that assessment, Coper and Advance agree. Sheahan told CPAC his organisation’s research identified it early as the key message.

“And through the polling … focus groups, it was clear that division was the big, big factor for people voting ‘No’,” he said. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/2023/11/04/the-man-behind-adva…

The irony of this was the voice was built on misinformation, the biggest lie was that Indigenous people have no say in matters that affect them, when they are consulted at all levels from councils to state to federal through all kinds of different ways.

Then there was the lie that it was a modest proposal

And then lie after lie from a 26 page document some how only being one page to another lie that it had nothing to do with Treaty, when it was clearly outlined as the first step.

The whole things was misinformation or no information before the No camp even existed.

Luckily most Aussie's have very good bullshit radars, well about 60% at least.

FTZWS!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-08/calls-for-australian-jury-system…

I focus wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

The irony of this was the voice was built on misinformation, the biggest lie was that Indigenous people have no say in matters that affect them, when they are consulted at all levels from councils to state to federal through all kinds of different ways.

Then there was the lie that it was a modest proposal

The Productivity Commission disagrees, plus there is no transparency in any of the decision making affecting Aboriginals on who has given advice and if that advice is acted on.

You claims are BS according to the Productivity Commission.

As for modest proposal it was aggressively opposed by Aboriginal activist because it was powerless.

Rex Fitzpatrick who actually knows about this stuff (unlike you) said the same, it was signed off on by conservatives (real ones not Dutton / Price / fu(witts) because there was no transfer of power.

Your naivety in believing BS rather that applying very basic critical thinking is staggering.

Still its over there will be no further progress in addressing the issues concerning a population in Australia is living in 3rd world conditions... we can all sleep easy.

Just as an example just on a federal level we have the NIAA we have a Minister of indigenous affairs and the Coalition of peak's. ( a representative body of more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled peak organisations and members)

Are you really trying to claim these things dont exist or consult and listen to Indigenous communities, people, bodies?

And you have the gall to say " Your naivety in believing BS rather that applying very basic critical thinking is staggering"

indo-dreaming wrote:

I focus wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

The irony of this was the voice was built on misinformation, the biggest lie was that Indigenous people have no say in matters that affect them, when they are consulted at all levels from councils to state to federal through all kinds of different ways.

Then there was the lie that it was a modest proposal

The Productivity Commission disagrees, plus there is no transparency in any of the decision making affecting Aboriginals on who has given advice and if that advice is acted on.

You claims are BS according to the Productivity Commission.

As for modest proposal it was aggressively opposed by Aboriginal activist because it was powerless.

Rex Fitzpatrick who actually knows about this stuff (unlike you) said the same, it was signed off on by conservatives (real ones not Dutton / Price / fu(witts) because there was no transfer of power.

Your naivety in believing BS rather that applying very basic critical thinking is staggering.

Still its over there will be no further progress in addressing the issues concerning a population in Australia is living in 3rd world conditions... we can all sleep easy.

Just as an example just on a federal level we have the NIAA we have a Minister of indigenous affairs and the Coalition of peak's. ( a representative body of more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled peak organisations and members)

Are you really trying to claim these things dont exist or consult and listen to Indigenous communities, people, bodies?

And you have the gall to say " Your naivety in believing BS rather that applying very basic critical thinking is staggering"

Show the advice given and acted on.

AEC Voice Tally Declaration > Respective Tally Breakdown in perceived count context
Please Note...This is an off set weekly / AEC Table...
100% AEC data but Not strictly Official ... kinda like a taboo swellnet Voice 'semi' exclusive!

The AEC count is not "Officially" Counted in this order...just showing how AEC could swing [Yes] count!
Anthony refuses to tackle this > tbb assures this is safe & crew will see where [Yes] swing occurs!
Can swap Yes / ALP for most elections > Scrutineers would be wise to it...just not the media!
Green Ant Bully Weekly reports on Left (vs) Green Ant Voter breakdown on Right
Green Ant Bully is marching cowardly Green Ant outta his Star Chamber...to share the swinger's gig!!

Wk Count .....Yes%.......No%..informal....Yes.........Type.......Voters
14th Oct....43.70% 56.30% 0.00%......43.70% Poll...........43.7%
...................................................................................35.30% Pre ord...35.3%
...................................................................................33.10% Post..........11.0%
16th Oct....38.86% 60.90% 1.04%.......44.70% Pre Dec..04.3%
23rd Oct....42.54% 57.40% 0.06%.......48.90% Absent...04.4%
30th Oct....45.54% 53.67% 0.79%.......47.70% A'Care....0.45%
....................................................................................51.88% Mobiles..0.03%
....................................................................................63.70% Remote..0.14%
6th Nov......49.02% 50.20% 0.77%........Count ends........................
Total tally..39.55% 59.47% 0.98%.........Voice Turnout......89.95%

(2022 Fed Election Turnout ~ House 89.92% ~ Senate 90.47%)

All agree! Not that difficult...just that Antony is not allowed to share this level of breakdown!

Weekly ramped Yes Pattern is obvious...if not a little light to Weekly % swing...
Only swellnet can share weekly recorded AEC vote numbers to get a grip on this.
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/521681?page=142
Just Add (This here Final Week Tally) for total...all adds up exactly...to AEC total ...tbb checked)
6th Nov [Yes] 40,969 [No] 41,955 / Informal 646
Crew can see those final numbers are near hittin' even...that's why 100% Neutral has gotta mop it up!
Do not trust the AEC as they're all 100% Biased Quaddie Vaxed Voters not fit to Scrutineer fairly!

So what else drove the shift towards equalling Yes=No by final Weekly count!

* Absent / Interstate / o's Votes leaned close towards Equal [Yes] Votes (Ties in with Remote / Islands)
* Other (Aged Care / Prisons...leaned close towards Equal Votes)
Assuming the count leans towards [Yes] in Solo Voting o/s > Territories > Remote + City singles
Highest Voter Turnout & compliance registers with cbd YES voters...so that's a 0.5% avg kicker!

Also assume Regional Ma / Pa come into town they Loudly shout [No]&[No]...Whole town knows who!
AEC staff describe it...as a Hullabaloo passing thru the Booth...not in a polite way!
Low Turnout & most informals are Farms- Pickers > Boss said he hasn't worked out how to vote for us!

Crew fears Green Ant Bully will surf stomp Green Ant's Star Chamber...(Don't worry...no need.)
Antony : "I promise I only visit swellnet for WOTD, never read any Reffo Blog of escalating [Yes] Vote!"

7th Nov Antony {The changing Pattern of Results by Vote Type} This 'll be good...(Cough!)
It's actually more to do about everything but this #1 AEC rort...well durr! Think that's the point tbb!
https://antonygreen.com.au/the-changing-pattern-of-results-by-vote-type/

* Massive difference in 2wk pre poll vote > Poll Day! (About high early No vote)
* Conservative Religious Pensioner Farmers Pre / Postal Poll was never as wide of a gap as Reffo.
* Growing difference between grumblebum Pre Poll (vs) Poll day voters...(About higher No vote)
* WA low o/n tally > WA Lowest turnout + Qld...matches low turnout Informal [No] Electorates

* AEC / Parliament plan to employ more Pre Post Counts on night (Double time Sat nite = $Trillions)
* Senate Turnout is higher coz Smaller House Paper goes missing in record Postals...Where is it?

* Green Ant can't offer a firm answer...at some point I will breakdown my table..Maybe I'll try...
Without being able to offer much explanation for Voting Pattern....blah blah blah...
Too late loser...punk tbb did it for ya as usual...How does this guy pull a wage...honestly!

Green Ant is simply stallin' to throw more shade for AEC.

Antony refuses to reveal Indigenous Turn Out even though Count is finished...(Mob are Not a Priority!)
Takes $450m + 100,000 AEC Staff 45 days to still not count how many Indigenous Voted in the Voice!
All our top Unis combined may reveal a part answer in 6 months at the earliest...Not a Joke!
Likely to cost more than an Aukus Sub to reveal secret Voice roll call...it's just one taboo number!

17 Oct Antony : All Remote Mobiles = 65% [Yes] No Mob breakdown?
I didn't deal with 'turnout issues' which reduce the % of Indigenous Votes!
( Wot Indigenous turnout Issues? ) Reckon the Mob might wanna know about not voting in own Reffo?
That's Antony's first, last & final world on the Mob's Vote in $450m Reffo about the Mob...well durr!

Antony skirts around High [YES] swing thru count...tbb better shares formula as to why (above)
Antony's Super Early Reffo call was to blame for Low WA boycotted Turnout + delayed WA count.
Antony says nothing about AEC Aged Care Mobile Teams spreading Voice Covid Outbreak Oz wide!

Pretty much same dumbarse censorship as Govt Covid Experts directive...
Wot Mob Voted when or Voice Tsunami rising up!
Hottest Gigs in Town getting buried deeper by the minute! Stick ya heads in the sand! [Censored]

Green Ant Bully's agonizing sound bite : (Ouch! That sound nasty!)
"The Green Ant Chamber is chockerz with Ant Sand."
"Mob are gonna need a pointier stick!"

Wazza needs more fingers for the amount of pies he’s accumulated . https://theklaxon.com.au/mundines-520000-plus-mining-payday/

Supafreak wrote:

Wazza needs more fingers for the amount of pies he’s accumulated . https://theklaxon.com.au/mundines-520000-plus-mining-payday/

Taking grifting to the “elite” level

Supafreak wrote:

Wazza needs more fingers for the amount of pies he’s accumulated . https://theklaxon.com.au/mundines-520000-plus-mining-payday/

Good on him a great role model for what Aboriginal people can achieve when work hard and put their mind too it. (without grifting in a sea of grievance too)

"Why the left stumbled in Australia and New Zealand

Progressive leaders reel from ballot box defeats after ‘losing touch with core voters

It was a coincidence that the New Zealand election fell on the same night as Australia’s “Voice” referendum to recognise its indigenous population. But it is no accident that New Zealand’s Labour party and Australia’s Labor party, which called the referendum, are reeling at the scale of their defeats.

Chris Hipkins, who stepped in when Jacinda Ardern vacated the prime minister’s chair in January, led the party to lose half its seats. Meanwhile, the Australian referendum, proposed by a jubilant Anthony Albanese on the night of his 2022 election victory, also fell flat: he lost by a margin of 60.8 per cent to 39.2 per cent.

Both centre-left leaders now stand accused of making the same political miscalculation: in a moment of seeming strength, they lost touch with their core voters. “Both leaders were out of step with the blue collar people who have been putting Labour in government for 100 years,” said John Black, executive chair of political profiling group Australian Development Studies."

https://www.ft.com/content/189c7f2a-dae3-4122-afb5-0cb744091c6a

And more good news from the Voice debacle

"Anthony Albanese's approval dips among one group of Aussies as Peter Dutton gains ground"

Blue-collar workers are losing faith with the Albanese government, as support for the Coalition gains ground among tradies and Australians with TAFE educations.

The latest poll conducted by RedBridge has found Labor's vote has dropped four per cent since August, with support among working-class Aussies noticeably slipping.

The results of the poll cast light on the possibility that the country's rejection of the Voice to Parliament might damage Labor's vote at the next election."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12711173/Anthony-Albaneses-sup…